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What would happen?


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#1 RSN

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:08 PM

What would happen to our sport if the salary cap was abolished in SL? With threads mentioning investors knocking about would they see it as a positive if it was abolished?

#2 Blind side johnny

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:14 PM

It would go belly up within five years.


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#3 bulldogs17

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:15 PM

I imagine the top financially prudent teams such as Wigan, Warrington and Leeds would poach all the lesser teams top players much easily, widening the gap between the top and bottom of the division.

However it would release a lot of the pressure on these lesser teams as they would not feel pressured to spend the full cap in order to "compete". Additionally it may see the teams promote younger cheaper english players from their academies rather than recruiting Aussies who are usually top earners at the clubs.

Whatever the pros and cons I can never see it being introduced, but it is something that should be considered in my opinion.

#4 Dave T

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:27 PM

Even at clubs like Warrington we make a small profit or loss each year.

Two things could happen:
1 - we increase wages and sign more top players through rich backers - the problem with this is it is artificial and when the backers get fed up, the wages are unsustainable.

2 - we spend more of our current revenue on wages - the problem with this is that the other good stuff that is being invested in, youth development, facilities improvements, training facilities etc. get knocked on the head.

The salary cap ensures that successful clubs invest in the infrastructure of the club to make them strong, this has to be good for the game rather than taking the Rugby Union and football approach.

#5 RSN

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:41 PM

I imagine the top financially prudent teams such as Wigan, Warrington and Leeds would poach all the lesser teams top players much easily, widening the gap between the top and bottom of the division.

However it would release a lot of the pressure on these lesser teams as they would not feel pressured to spend the full cap in order to "compete". Additionally it may see the teams promote younger cheaper english players from their academies rather than recruiting Aussies who are usually top earners at the clubs.

Whatever the pros and cons I can never see it being introduced, but it is something that should be considered in my opinion.


The big clubs still seem to sign the lesser clubs best players fairly easily.

See Westerman, Smith, Ratchford, Mcarthy Scarsbrook, Ben Jones Bishop, Joel Moon ect. When people talk about widening the gap between the top and the bottom I also don't get that point, its the same teams near the top and bottom every year. Even if you say Widnes beat Wigan results like this still happen in sports without salary caps ie burnley beating Manchester United

Who would cause clubs to go belly up? Surely good businessmen can easily operate without a salary cap.
I don't see why if clubs can prove to the RFL that signings are sustainable and the amount are spending on the team is also then I don't see the need for it.

If the likes of Wigan and Leeds are able to sign a high profile NRL/Union player I don't see how its widening the gap. Because they arnt allowed to sign better players from elsewhere they're just picking off from other teams which is widening the gap further.

So if clubs prove that the amount spent on their team is sustainable like have a proper business plan on how its relevant too turnover/revenue then I don't see the need for it.

#6 brooza

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:41 PM

However it would release a lot of the pressure on these lesser teams as they would not feel pressured to spend the full cap in order to "compete".

No, but they would have to spend more than the current salary cap in order to compete
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#7 brooza

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:44 PM

The big clubs still seem to sign the lesser clubs best players fairly easily.

See Westerman, Smith, Ratchford, Mcarthy Scarsbrook, Ben Jones Bishop, Joel Moon ect. When people talk about widening the gap between the top and the bottom I also don't get that point, its the same teams near the top and bottom every year. Even if you say Widnes beat Wigan results like this still happen in sports without salary caps ie burnley beating Manchester United

Do you mean when BJB went from to Harlequins on loan, or when he went from Harlequins to the team whose academy system he came through?
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#8 RSN

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:54 PM

Ah my apologies blatant mistake just remembered he was on loan.

#9 noname6

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:21 PM

Who would cause clubs to go belly up? Surely good businessmen can easily operate without a salary cap.
I don't see why if clubs can prove to the RFL that signings are sustainable and the amount are spending on the team is also then I don't see the need for it.

:lol: :lol: the same clubs that continue to run themselves into the ground even with the cap?

without a cap the sport would be gone in 2/3 years

#10 my missus

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:36 PM

:lol: :lol: the same clubs that continue to run themselves into the ground even with the cap?

without a cap the sport would be gone in 2/3 years

rubbish, since the cap the game has gone backwards, clubs are still going bust, if there were no cap bradford would not have been in trouble.
if big backers want to spread there money around the league let 'em.

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#11 RSN

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:40 PM

:lol: :lol: the same clubs that continue to run themselves into the ground even with the cap?

without a cap the sport would be gone in 2/3 years


Clubs have been run recently in the past yes, but it appears now the RFl are more concerned on how clubs are being run which is why they're introduced licensing. The recent financial troubles are due to before licensing is brought in.

So if the cap was abolished there would be no sport left in 2015 even if the RFL closely watched how much they're spending on players and encouraged them not to pick off players from the bottom clubs and sign players from the NRL and Union providing they are sustainable enough to do so. As long as clubs operate sustainably their isn't any need for a salary cap, the reason clubs go bust is because they don't run their business properly, we've clearly had some shocking businessmen in our sport in recent times but good businessmen can operate without a salary cap.



#12 noname6

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:41 PM

rubbish, since the cap the game has gone backwards, clubs are still going bust, if there were no cap bradford would not have been in trouble.
if big backers want to spread there money around the league let 'em.

how would bradford not have been in trouble in a league where they were forced to spend even more money :wacko:

#13 my missus

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:42 PM

assets.

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#14 noname6

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:51 PM

Clubs have been run recently in the past yes, but it appears now the RFl are more concerned on how clubs are being run which is why they're introduced licensing. The recent financial troubles are due to before licensing is brought in.

So if the cap was abolished there would be no sport left in 2015 even if the RFL closely watched how much they're spending on players and encouraged them not to pick off players from the bottom clubs and sign players from the NRL and Union providing they are sustainable enough to do so. As long as clubs operate sustainably their isn't any need for a salary cap, the reason clubs go bust is because they don't run their business properly, we've clearly had some shocking businessmen in our sport in recent times but good businessmen can operate without a salary cap.

yes but plenty of clubs are still run by idiots who can't count, allowing them idiots to spend even more money isn't going to help.

even if these idiots were replaced, the gap, which is still pretty big as it stands, would be huge and turn the league into a massive joke.

until such a time that there are hundred's queuing up to spend millions without caring about the bottom line, or 10/12/14 clubs that are all on an even playing field, removing the cap would be a disaster

#15 noname6

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 06:08 PM

assets

what assets? the players? an unhappy player is next to worthless tbh, and for the wages currently paid it won't take much for an player to become unhappy at a small club. i.e. salford have the next lockyer on their books at 150K a year, wigan will pay him £600K a year. salford want £1m for him, wigan say they'll pay £10K. how long before the player stops putting in performances for salford, knowing he could be getting 4 times his wage at wigan but salford won't let him go. who's going to be the winner? before the bosman rule it may have worked, but in the current open market it leaves the smaller clubs getting walked all over.

Edited by noname6, 11 January 2013 - 06:09 PM.


#16 keighley

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:55 PM

what assets? the players? an unhappy player is next to worthless tbh, and for the wages currently paid it won't take much for an player to become unhappy at a small club. i.e. salford have the next lockyer on their books at 150K a year, wigan will pay him £600K a year. salford want £1m for him, wigan say they'll pay £10K. how long before the player stops putting in performances for salford, knowing he could be getting 4 times his wage at wigan but salford won't let him go. who's going to be the winner? before the bosman rule it may have worked, but in the current open market it leaves the smaller clubs getting walked all over.


That's what happened when Wigan were the undisputed top dogs for years. Widnes produced teams capable of competing with them but couldn't keep hold of the playes over time due to Wigans money. Wigan ended up with Martin Offiah, Joe Lydon, Any Gregory. Leeds took Tait. The Widnes team was dismantled.

This is still somewhat the same today even with the salary cap but without it, the top teams would completely rule the roost resulting in an uncompetitive league with too many blowouts to keep Sky happy.

#17 Blind side johnny

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 08:10 PM

<SNIP> As long as clubs operate sustainably their isn't any need for a salary cap, the reason clubs go bust is because they don't run their business properly, we've clearly had some shocking businessmen in our sport in recent times but good businessmen can operate without a salary cap.


Unlike in some other countries I cannot think of anyone who is running a sports club in Britain as a business. Admittedly they are being run by businessmen in most cases, but businessmen who's main business - and hence income - is elsewhere. If the well-being of those who owned/ran the clubs was wholly dependent upon the success or failure of those clubs then they might be run in a businesslike manner. But generally it isn't, they aren't and they aren't.

Using the "run by businessmen so will be successful" line is a pointless argument - it's untrue.
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#18 Padge

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 08:19 PM

That's what happened when Wigan were the undisputed top dogs for years. Widnes produced teams capable of competing with them but couldn't keep hold of the playes over time due to Wigans money. Wigan ended up with Martin Offiah, Joe Lydon, Any Gregory. Leeds took Tait. The Widnes team was dismantled.

This is still somewhat the same today even with the salary cap but without it, the top teams would completely rule the roost resulting in an uncompetitive league with too many blowouts to keep Sky happy.


Widnes sold Lydon, Offiah and gave a free transfer to Davies because they were in deep money trouble. The money they got for the first two balanced the books and didn't make them a profit.

The Widnes team wasn't dismantled they were simply used by the club as cheques to pay the creditors in waiting.

Edited by Padge, 12 January 2013 - 08:21 PM.


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#19 Pie tries

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 09:32 PM

Backward step, wigan warrington run at loss, underwritten by owners, in current climate this would be a disaster

#20 southstand loiner

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 03:38 PM

its not going to happen as even the big clubs like warrington and leeds dont want the cap to end. i know every now and again someone like pearson at hull comes up with comments about spending money to get the best players but that never lasts long .

we should be proud that our game has a salary cap that keeps it real even with all the flaws in it
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