67 replies to this topic

[funkmaster flex]

So how do we reach the other 38,000 at a low cost?

Mail shot? Posters seen by far less than any newspaper and would they really make people turn up?

Advertising is about making a cost-effective return. If the club are getting near enough free coverage to a third of the local populations, mthat is something most businesses would give their right arm for.

Comparing the percentage populations attending between Batley and Dewsbury ignores the success of the team and also the impact of the away support. I would guess away fans who go to Batley probably also go to Dewsbury and this is in Batley's favour. Statistically there is not much difference between the clubs support v population.

When I left Uni some years ago with my degree what became very apparent, very quickly, was that the calssification of the degree (how well you did) was not the be all and end all of student life and a successful career. What was equally, perhaps more so important was experience.

I have made this suggestion on here before, but a second, or third year advertising student would give their mothers eyesight for long term experience and - they would probably do it for free, or minimal consideration.
The right student would be driven, enthusiastic, optimistic and importantly - Would have the oppertunity to get proven results in a difficult market. This kind of experience is invaluable to the student and would usually cost a heck of a lot of money. But tapping into the desperation and necessity and finding an equilibrium would (I believe) work wonders.

Just an idea of course.

[Ackroman]

When I left Uni some years ago with my degree what became very apparent, very quickly, was that the calssification of the degree (how well you did) was not the be all and end all of student life and a successful career. What was equally, perhaps more so important was experience.

I have made this suggestion on here before, but a second, or third year advertising student would give their mothers eyesight for long term experience and - they would probably do it for free, or minimal consideration.
The right student would be driven, enthusiastic, optimistic and importantly - Would have the oppertunity to get proven results in a difficult market. This kind of experience is invaluable to the student and would usually cost a heck of a lot of money. But tapping into the desperation and necessity and finding an equilibrium would (I believe) work wonders.

Just an idea of course.

This is a very interesting idea as the number of sports related courses including degree's, have rocketed in recent years.

I would imagine some kind of "project" delivered by students from the local college(s), or sixth form could transform exposure to the new Championship season at little cost other than supervision. I know the club have used this route for programs so is it simply a idea to extend the training to pre-season marketing?

[grumpyoldram]

Or a bloke walking around with a sandwich board/

That's how they used to do it in GOR's day I reckon.

Those of us who are young (at heart) of course have smart 'phones, t'interweb, social media etc.

Anyway, I thought we were concentrating on appealing to the youth for our future.

What's wrong wi sandwich boards ? You know where you are with a sandwich board - you won't see :-

1. This sandwich board has expired - please consult your sandwich board provider

2 Other sanwich board browsers liked this (insert six other sandwich boards)

3. Irritating pop up sandwich boards

4. An accompanying sanwich board with a picture of sexy sharon from a sandwich board dating agency.

5. Troll sandwich boards.



Anyway, I'd like to see you get on twitter using the sinclair zx81 that I use, and for your information, the youth for our future don't appeal to me so why should I appeal to them ?

[grumpyoldram]

All friendlies are cleared with the RFL first, as it's there job to send us a ref, so they already have data of the game.

I have very limited control over how much coverage the Bulls give the friendly, but I did co-ordinate a Telegraph & Argus interview with Glenn, which will appear as a prominent story in Thursday's edition.

I am also in regular contact with Ryan Sparks at The Press and Andy Hunt at the Reporter. The Press covers both clubs equally, but the balance of coverage between the Bulldogs and the Rams in recent months (think we've had the lead story on 12 of the last 16 back pages) suggests that the club's relationship with the paper is as good as it's ever been.

I'm not based at the Stadium, except on match days, so can't change the fixtures board myself. I will get the message to the club to get this changed though.

I have very limited control over how much coverage the Bulls give the friendly, but I did co-ordinate a Telegraph & Argus interview with Glenn, which will appear as a prominent story in Thursday's edition.


Thats all I was asking Tom - thanks.

[alienboy]

They could put up a couple of posters around town or at the very least on the board outside the ground (which apparently isn't there)

No doubt the e releases have been plentiful and good since you came on board, but it seems to me the advertising is limited to the faithful or those that read either:

- The Press which is a sensationalist right wing rag with the occasional decent local story.
- The Reporter which is so far detracted from real life and real issues it is almost a novel.

There is almost 60,000 people in Dewsbury (second only to Huddersfield in Kirklees) and with circulation of the Reporter hitting around 20,000 of these and the Press being in trouble for lying about their circulation figures it is safe to assume that you are hitting around third of Dewsbury.

Lets look at Batley Bulldogs - With an average attendence of 1113 out of a population of 45,900 that means about 2.4% of Batley are turning up for games.

But then Dewsbury with its population of 58,200 and an average attendence of 1134 means that 1.9% of people are turning up for games.

With a similar demographic that is quite a substantial difference.

If we compare these to our nearest Super League team then Huddersfield has a population of 128,000 with an average gate of 7709 meaning 6% of the population are turning up for games. Yet here we don't have a similar demographic, Huddersfield is home to some 24,000 students of which (when the £5 student ticket offer was live) around 150 used to attend the games regularly. So if we adjust for that, we have a population of 104,000 meaning 7.4% attend games. Ok, this is an unfair comparison since they are the elite league, but interesting nonetheless.

I know we have "lies, lies and damned statistics" but the reality is in figures, we are not hitting the numbers we could and if getting a third of the population is ok for you then fair enough. But to me that leaves over 38,000 people in our town not being targeted and goes some way in explaining why we fall behind Batley and why our stands are often fairly sparse.

*edit* attendence figures include away fans since I couldn't find reliable home figures and so our % average is even less.

I think the problem is determining who the "They" is at the start of your post. The club has few full time staff working on the admin side of the club, who I guess have their time filled with their current duties. Maybe if the club produced the posters then supporters could distribute them.

The club's own web site states that the next match is on February 3rd at Doncaster, so that is something that may need looking at if it is possible to change.

Edited by alienboy, 10 January 2013 - 12:55 PM.

[Blind side johnny]

What's wrong wi sandwich boards ? You know where you are with a sandwich board - you won't see :-

1. This sandwich board has expired - please consult your sandwich board provider

2 Other sanwich board browsers liked this (insert six other sandwich boards)

3. Irritating pop up sandwich boards

4. An accompanying sanwich board with a picture of sexy sharon from a sandwich board dating agency.

5. Troll sandwich boards.



Anyway, I'd like to see you get on twitter using the sinclair zx81 that I use, and for your information, the youth for our future don't appeal to me so why should I appeal to them ?

Excellent!

[NickD]

I think the problem is determining who the "They" is at the start of your post. The club has few full time staff working on the admin side of the club, who I guess have their time filled with their current duties. Maybe if the club produced the posters then supporters could distribute them.

The club's own web site states that the next match is on February 3rd at Doncaster, so that is something that may need looking at if it is possible to change.

Advertising is definitely something that could be improved - it could always be improved. I believe one of the most cost effective must be the mobile "Boards" that you see around and that both Leeds and Wakefiled seem to make good use of. I seem to see those advertising Wildcat fixtures all over the place. However, even if you have these the undecided are hardly likely to turn up if its going to cost them a wad of cash. We have discussed this ad infinitum in the last week or so, but surely one of the best ways to market the games AND get new people into the ground is the bring a friend for a fiver / free offer and as I have mentioned a million times already I used these to great effect last year, bringing several extra people, two of whom paid the full wack and spent a few bob at the bar and who wouldnt have come otherwise. As mentioned by others WE are the best way of marketing the club; bringing friends, encourageing those who used to come to come back and in BSJs case making your own Sandwich board and walking around the town centre on a Saturday morning. But please lets have the bring a friend offer back.....

[Tom Coates]

They could put up a couple of posters around town or at the very least on the board outside the ground (which apparently isn't there)

There is now a big poster up on the outside of the fence at the Owl Lane end of the ground. It's about 8m long and 1.5m tall and has a big photo of the 2013 first team in a V-formation under the stadium floodlights. Looks fantastic. That's down to Steve Horsfall, our club photographer - who is going above and beyond the call of duty by volunteering.

No doubt the e releases have been plentiful and good since you came on board, but it seems to me the advertising is limited to the faithful

We're reaching everybody who visits the official website. In December we had 811,351, which is almost double the 473k we had in December 2011.

We're also reaching our followers on Facebook and Twitter (over 1,000 on each site). Users are encouraged to 'Retweet' and 'Like' the story, which creates a news story on the 'feeds' of their friends - whether they follow us or not. And when you consider that the average Facebook friend has 150 friends, the reach is greater than you think.

or those that read either:

- The Press which is a sensationalist right wing rag with the occasional decent local story.
- The Reporter which is so far detracted from real life and real issues it is almost a novel.

Both newspapers are tremendous supporters of Dewsbury Rams, and the causes important to us - currently it's the Eastern Terrace, new shirts and season tickets - which is all I'm interested in as the Rams' media officer!

We've had Roger in both papers (sometimes on the front page) almost every week between the end of October and Christmas.

There is almost 60,000 people in Dewsbury (second only to Huddersfield in Kirklees) and with circulation of the Reporter hitting around 20,000 of these and the Press being in trouble for lying about their circulation figures it is safe to assume that you are hitting around third of Dewsbury.

Lets look at Batley Bulldogs - With an average attendence of 1113 out of a population of 45,900 that means about 2.4% of Batley are turning up for games.

But then Dewsbury with its population of 58,200 and an average attendence of 1134 means that 1.9% of people are turning up for games.

With a similar demographic that is quite a substantial difference.

When I'm in the South Stand, of the Rams fans I stand with - none live in Dewsbury. Me, my mum and my dad are from Mirfield, there's a couple from Heckmondwike and another lad and his mum, who are also from Mirfield.

I think dividing populations of towns by average attendance is too simplistic. How would you apply it to Sheffield Eagles and Castleford Tigers? There are so many other factors to consider.

If we compare these to our nearest Super League team then Huddersfield has a population of 128,000 with an average gate of 7709 meaning 6% of the population are turning up for games. Yet here we don't have a similar demographic, Huddersfield is home to some 24,000 students of which (when the £5 student ticket offer was live) around 150 used to attend the games regularly. So if we adjust for that, we have a population of 104,000 meaning 7.4% attend games. Ok, this is an unfair comparison since they are the elite league, but interesting nonetheless.

If I were the Huddersfield media manager (or their marketing manager) (or their media assistant) (or their business development manager) (yes, they have all three on their full-time staff!), I'd be very concerned if we were being out performed by a club from neighbouring town in the division below us with no full-time media or marketing staff.

I know we have "lies, lies and damned statistics" but the reality is in figures, we are not hitting the numbers we could and if getting a third of the population is ok for you then fair enough. But to me that leaves over 38,000 people in our town not being targeted and goes some way in explaining why we fall behind Batley and why our stands are often fairly sparse.

How would you target the remaining 38,000 then?

I designed and uploaded a poster for people to print out and stick up in their local pub and nearest shop.

Roger and Austin were both in the town centre for the Christmas lights switch on, and soon Roger will be equipped with his own 'business cards' to hand to kids and their parents - letting them know who he is and where he can be found every other Sunday!

If anyone would like to contribute to the cost of these then I'll let you have my PayPal details!

[Tom Coates]

When I left Uni some years ago with my degree what became very apparent, very quickly, was that the calssification of the degree (how well you did) was not the be all and end all of student life and a successful career. What was equally, perhaps more so important was experience.

I have made this suggestion on here before, but a second, or third year advertising student would give their mothers eyesight for long term experience and - they would probably do it for free, or minimal consideration.

The right student would be driven, enthusiastic, optimistic and importantly - Would have the oppertunity to get proven results in a difficult market. This kind of experience is invaluable to the student and would usually cost a heck of a lot of money. But tapping into the desperation and necessity and finding an equilibrium would (I believe) work wonders.

Just an idea of course.

Excellent idea - how I got my break in journalism!

I think the problem is determining who the "They" is at the start of your post. The club has few full time staff working on the admin side of the club, who I guess have their time filled with their current duties. Maybe if the club produced the posters then supporters could distribute them.

See above.

The club's own web site states that the next match is on February 3rd at Doncaster, so that is something that may need looking at if it is possible to change.

The 'Next fixture' tile is automated and powered by the RFL's own fixture list. If the RFL haven't added our friendlies to their system then they won't show up.

I did raise this issue in December and the Halifax game did show up in the lead up to last Sunday, but it now seems to have reverted back to the league programme.

To remedy the problem, I manually added a tile beneath advertising the Bulls game.

Advertising is definitely something that could be improved - it could always be improved. I believe one of the most cost effective must be the mobile "Boards" that you see around and that both Leeds and Wakefiled seem to make good use of. I seem to see those advertising Wildcat fixtures all over the place. However, even if you have these the undecided are hardly likely to turn up if its going to cost them a wad of cash. We have discussed this ad infinitum in the last week or so, but surely one of the best ways to market the games AND get new people into the ground is the bring a friend for a fiver / free offer and as I have mentioned a million times already I used these to great effect last year, bringing several extra people, two of whom paid the full wack and spent a few bob at the bar and who wouldnt have come otherwise. As mentioned by others WE are the best way of marketing the club; bringing friends, encourageing those who used to come to come back and in BSJs case making your own Sandwich board and walking around the town centre on a Saturday morning. But please lets have the bring a friend offer back.....

I can't comment on the pricing structure or ticketing packages as I'm not involved in those decisions, but I will pass your comments on.

[NickD]

Excellent idea - how I got my break in journalism!



See above.



The 'Next fixture' tile is automated and powered by the RFL's own fixture list. If the RFL haven't added our friendlies to their system then they won't show up.

I did raise this issue in December and the Halifax game did show up in the lead up to last Sunday, but it now seems to have reverted back to the league programme.

To remedy the problem, I manually added a tile beneath advertising the Bulls game.



I can't comment on the pricing structure or ticketing packages as I'm not involved in those decisions, but I will pass your comments on.

Cheers Tom. If we all put is as much effort as you we would be laughing....

[funkmaster flex]

How would you target the remaining 38,000 then?

I designed and uploaded a poster for people to print out and stick up in their local pub and nearest shop.

Roger and Austin were both in the town centre for the Christmas lights switch on, and soon Roger will be equipped with his own 'business cards' to hand to kids and their parents - letting them know who he is and where he can be found every other Sunday!

If anyone would like to contribute to the cost of these then I'll let you have my PayPal details!

For a start what type of person do you see at our games?

Working class white men and old women (and men)

How many Pakistanis, or Indians, or Poles or Kurds etc do you see? Does Roger go into the schools in Saville Town? And before Coolie flies in and says 'Pakis don't like rugby' I could point out that before Prince Naseem and more recently Amir Khan Pakistanis werent particularly known for their love of boxing.
Lets play a compltely racist game on Sunday - Just for the heck of it. We can call it 'spot the foreigner' It's a sure fire bet for the club as no one would win because there simply arent any Asians attending games. Why? Do we really believe they are an insular society who care only about cricket?

Families - And I have done this to death, the club simply does not cater for families and for those that do attend, it does very little to keep them attending.

Getting people to games is half the battle - Keeping them coming is the hard part. We have a young, enthusiastic coach who seems to have breathed a new lease of life into Dewsbury, the old 'we are who we are' tag that couldve been so easily attatched to Dewsbury is on a knife edge and could go either way.
What I'm saying is the the vibrancy of the club right now should be manipulated and applied to new fans, simply lowering the gate and sitting back to watch might get a few, but we need to get a lot.

Has anyone ever thought of linking with a local SL club and moving the home games to different days and then selling a multiple season ticket? i.e watch Dewsbury on a Saturday and Leeds on the Sunday?

The truth is the backslapping needs to stop and Tom, you appear to be the face of it all and I really hope the vein of enthusiasm runs deep and changes are made.

[EQUALIZER]

When I left Uni some years ago with my degree what became very apparent, very quickly, was that the calssification of the degree (how well you did) was not the be all and end all of student life and a successful career. What was equally, perhaps more so important was experience.

I have made this suggestion on here before, but a second, or third year advertising student would give their mothers eyesight for long term experience and - they would probably do it for free, or minimal consideration.
The right student would be driven, enthusiastic, optimistic and importantly - Would have the oppertunity to get proven results in a difficult market. This kind of experience is invaluable to the student and would usually cost a heck of a lot of money. But tapping into the desperation and necessity and finding an equilibrium would (I believe) work wonders.

Just an idea of course.

Well your an ex student bursting with ideas.Why dont you put yourself in the firing line instead of supplying the ammunition.Its alrite people bursting with ideas yet its getting people to put the foot work in.Example if weve a bit of a winter situation come this weekend and it needs volunteers to shift a bit of snow.How many will turn up about 12 .Yet if its called off how many will come on here complaining.The club can only do so much its easy being A key board warrior cross the line and get involved.As for your earlier post re getting the Asian support aboard, the club has tried and tried and the Asian community dont want to know.Just like Yorkshire c.c theyve tried for more than 20years to tap into the talent that exists in the Yorkshire Asian community.They could and would be Yorkshire men.Reason their loyalty is not to the homeland of their birth.We thought that when Al Murad sponsered the club links would be forged but alas it didnt.Now your supposed to be one of the brainy brigade you find a solution.ITS SIMPLE PEOPLE ALWAYS HAVE AND ALWAYS WILL FOLLOW A WINNING TEAM.GET THE RESULTS THE CROWD WILL FOLLOW.

Edited by EQUALIZER, 11 January 2013 - 01:27 AM.

[funkmaster flex]

Well your an ex student bursting with ideas.Why dont you put yourself in the firing line instead of supplying the ammunition.Its alrite people bursting with ideas yet its getting people to put the foot work in.Example if weve a bit of a winter situation come this weekend and it needs volunteers to shift a bit of snow.How many will turn up about 12 .Yet if its called off how many will come on here complaining.The club can only do so much its easy being A key board warrior cross the line and get involved.As for your earlier post re getting the Asian support aboard, the club has tried and tried and the Asian community dont want to know.Just like Yorkshire c.c theyve tried for more than 20years to tap into the talent that exists in the Yorkshire Asian community.They could and would be Yorkshire men.Reason their loyalty is not to the homeland of their birth.We thought that when Al Murad sponsered the club links would be forged but alas it didnt.Now your supposed to be one of the brainy brigade you find a solution.ITS SIMPLE PEOPLE ALWAYS HAVE AND ALWAYS WILL FOLLOW A WINNING TEAM.GET THE RESULTS THE CROWD WILL FOLLOW.

This is a forum, I share my opinions as much as my ideas. Could I help put them into action? Of course not, I spend as much time in the UK as I do out of it but that doesn't mean I am not passionate about the club moving forward and willing to help throw ideas into the forum. But I have tried:
4 years ago I had a career lined up which would take me all over the world, to some of the most amazing places on this earth, many UNESCO, wonders of the world and far flung places that are completely isolated save for days of travel. I contacted the club and asked if they would like me to take a Dewsbury shirt and have it snapped all over the planet - I was completely ignored.
About 6 months later off the back of my first trip around China and the Far east I got in touch with the club again - I was completely ignored.

Since that first contact I have been to 42 countries across 6 continents, the ONLY wonders of the world (modern/ancient/and historical) that I HAVENT been to is Machu Pichu in Peru and Im going there next month and the Great Barrier Reef (which Ive no plans of going to at the moment)
I could have put a Dewsbury shirt across Asia, the USA and to just about every corner of India including on some of the worlds highest peaks, most baron deserts or densest jungles.

So Equalizer, don't come at me with this whole 'cross the line, keyboard warrior' sketch because it doesn't fit. I have tried to help the club where time allows and I was ignored, twice.
Still, my offer does stand, I am going to Egypt on the 24th Jan (Cairo/Hurghada/Luxor/Abu Simbel/Aswan/Siwa Oasis and the Western Desert) and then Venice/Rome/Venezuala/Colombia/Peru/Brussels on the 25th Feb.

[John North]

Seems to me that all you did was try blagging a couple of Dewsbury Shirts off the Club, hardly the most helpful contribution IMHO!

[funkmaster flex]

Seems to me that all you did was try blagging a couple of Dewsbury Shirts off the Club, hardly the most helpful contribution IMHO!

I have my own shirt John

But thanks, for yet another, typically pointless John North post.

Edited by funkmaster flex, 11 January 2013 - 09:43 AM.

[Ackroman]

I have my own shirt John

But thanks, for yet another, typically pointless John North post.

Although sarcastic, the point is valid. Nothing stopped you from doing it anyway and creating your own publicity for the club. Unless you understand the club needs supporters as well as fans you will forever be expecting a pat on the back for doing nothing.

One other point is your criticism of the club's reach to minority groups. Over the years the club has engaged with the asian population through a variety of ways. One of the best is having junior tag matches played at half time for local schools. Through this we've seen many asian kids and their families at the stadium. If they chose not to return then that's up to them. If RL want a Naseem effect then the game needs a superstar not a game of tag rugby at half time. This is a problem for the RFL to fix not the Rams.

So if the club can engage with the community and try and build bridges for no direct benefit, maybe you could do the same rather than moaning about it?

[guest from down under]

Since that first contact I have been to 42 countries across 6 continents, the ONLY wonders of the world (modern/ancient/and historical) that I HAVENT been to is Machu Pichu in Peru and Im going there next month and the Great Barrier Reef (which Ive no plans of going to at the moment)

Ive been to skegness and cleethorpe , now thats really pushing the boundaries and if i want to see one of the real ancient wonders of the world i only need to go to the rugby club and see jack addy .

[EQUALIZER]

Ive been to skegness and cleethorpe , now thats really pushing the boundaries and if i want to see one of the real ancient wonders of the world i only need to go to the rugby club and see jack addy .

Butlins at SKEGGY once delivered there and upset em big style.Asked em which huts the great escape had been filmed Trouble was.it was just opening up from a refurb.

[funkmaster flex]

Although sarcastic, the point is valid. Nothing stopped you from doing it anyway and creating your own publicity for the club. Unless you understand the club needs supporters as well as fans you will forever be expecting a pat on the back for doing nothing.

One other point is your criticism of the club's reach to minority groups. Over the years the club has engaged with the asian population through a variety of ways. One of the best is having junior tag matches played at half time for local schools. Through this we've seen many asian kids and their families at the stadium. If they chose not to return then that's up to them. If RL want a Naseem effect then the game needs a superstar not a game of tag rugby at half time. This is a problem for the RFL to fix not the Rams.

So if the club can engage with the community and try and build bridges for no direct benefit, maybe you could do the same rather than moaning about it?

Perhaps Matt, they chose not to come back for various reasons other than 'they decided not to' this is precisely what the club should be addressing.

And I'm not moaning, I am making suggestions which is more than a lot of fans are doing. Really, the most common idea seems to be stick a board up.

I mean come on.

[grumpyoldram]

This is a forum, I share my opinions as much as my ideas. Could I help put them into action? Of course not, I spend as much time in the UK as I do out of it but that doesn't mean I am not passionate about the club moving forward and willing to help throw ideas into the forum. But I have tried:
4 years ago I had a career lined up which would take me all over the world, to some of the most amazing places on this earth, many UNESCO, wonders of the world and far flung places that are completely isolated save for days of travel. I contacted the club and asked if they would like me to take a Dewsbury shirt and have it snapped all over the planet - I was completely ignored.
About 6 months later off the back of my first trip around China and the Far east I got in touch with the club again - I was completely ignored.

Since that first contact I have been to 42 countries across 6 continents, the ONLY wonders of the world (modern/ancient/and historical) that I HAVENT been to is Machu Pichu in Peru and Im going there next month and the Great Barrier Reef (which Ive no plans of going to at the moment)
I could have put a Dewsbury shirt across Asia, the USA and to just about every corner of India including on some of the worlds highest peaks, most baron deserts or densest jungles.

So Equalizer, don't come at me with this whole 'cross the line, keyboard warrior' sketch because it doesn't fit. I have tried to help the club where time allows and I was ignored, twice.
Still, my offer does stand, I am going to Egypt on the 24th Jan (Cairo/Hurghada/Luxor/Abu Simbel/Aswan/Siwa Oasis and the Western Desert) and then Venice/Rome/Venezuala/Colombia/Peru/Brussels on the 25th Feb.

You live in Flockton and appear to spend most of your time globetrotting, which would suggest you have considerably more money than I have, but still find it necessary to bang on about the price of admission for kids. A suggestion FF - give the venice trip a miss (it's a sheisshole) and buy a couple of season tickets for your kids instead - it'll work out cheaper. Re your point about the lack of effort to attract the Asian support - I think the club do their level best through the community project, which has strong links with mulicultural schools like ravensthorpe who use the rams educational facilities - but i doubt it has or ever will lead to any interest in the rugby side of things. The asian community in batley literally have a club on their doorstep, but don't engage with it in a rugby sense any more than those in ravensthorpe and saville town do with dewsbury - so it's not just us. Ikram butt has done sterling, and often thankless work, to promote the game within the asian community, but with very limited success - I'm afraid it's a long dead horse and no longer worth flogging.