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The SL Licensing v Promotion & Relegation debate thread


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#21 keighley

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 08:43 PM

They are transferred to the entering club.

Its all in the articles of association if you would care to read them.


Thank for that. I prefer not to read the articles of the Illegal Disection of RL association. I knew I could rely on you for the information. It would seem to be a problem if the holding club refused to relinquish their shares. Seems a little illegal to me.

#22 Padge

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 08:48 PM

Thank for that. I prefer not to read the articles of the Illegal Disection of RL association. I knew I could rely on you for the information. It would seem to be a problem if the holding club refused to relinquish their shares. Seems a little illegal to me.

They are not shares as in stock market shares.

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#23 Griff

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 09:26 AM

Thank for that. I prefer not to read the articles of the Illegal Disection of RL association. I knew I could rely on you for the information. It would seem to be a problem if the holding club refused to relinquish their shares. Seems a little illegal to me.


Illegal ? Goodness - we must report this to the police. :unsure:
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#24 oldrover

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 10:19 AM

Illegal ? Goodness - we must report this to the police. :unsure:

the police?, they broke up years ago. do keep up :)
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#25 JohnM

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 10:37 AM

This whole topic is great. Once upon a time, teams seeking promotion would have put everything into getting into the team to get them top of their league..one almighty push for one season of painful glory to be followed by further seasons of painful relegated complaining about how unfair the system was and how they were shafted by the RFL,

Now, clubs such as Fev, Fax, Leigh know exactly what they have to do to to achieve entry to the elite competition and stay there. And you know what? They are all working hard to do it. So once again , well done Fev, Fax, Leigh etc .

But wait...there is more! Clubs such as Salford, Cas etc know exactly what they have to do to remain in the elite and you know what? They are working hard to do that too. But NOT at the expense of of the aspirant new entrants because the nasty hateful RFL has promised on of them a place at the next licencing round!

See? The system works.

#26 Padge

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 11:08 AM

the police?, they broke up years ago. do keep up :)

Has that news actually reached Fev then, must be in the last week or so.

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#27 Trojan

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 11:43 AM

This whole topic is great. Once upon a time, teams seeking promotion would have put everything into getting into the team to get them top of their league..one almighty push for one season of painful glory to be followed by further seasons of painful relegated complaining about how unfair the system was and how they were shafted by the RFL,

Now, clubs such as Fev, Fax, Leigh know exactly what they have to do to to achieve entry to the elite competition and stay there. And you know what? They are all working hard to do it. So once again , well done Fev, Fax, Leigh etc .

But wait...there is more! Clubs such as Salford, Cas etc know exactly what they have to do to remain in the elite and you know what? They are working hard to do that too. But NOT at the expense of of the aspirant new entrants because the nasty hateful RFL has promised on of them a place at the next licencing round!

See? The system works.

But what you say isn't true. Halifax promoted in the eighties, won the Challenge Cup and the Championship, Hull promoted in 1979 won everything there was to win. Fev promoted in 1980 won the Challenge Cup. promoted again in 1988, they got to the semi of the Premiership Playoff (twice) and the Yorkshire Cup final. Promoted again in 1993, they reached the semi of the Challenge Cup. Ok they were relegated in '87 & 92 but so what? There was a swift way back and now there isn't.
Teams should have grounds to to suit SL, and be financially sound, but the main qualification should be on the field of play it is after all a sport, and what happens on the field of play is waht sport is for!
After all what happened (is happening) at Wakey, Bradford, Cas, Salford, Crusaders, London are hardly good examples of the financial rigour that Super League requires are they?

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#28 Griff

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 11:58 AM

But what you say isn't true. Halifax promoted in the eighties, won the Challenge Cup and the Championship, Hull promoted in 1979 won everything there was to win. Fev promoted in 1980 won the Challenge Cup. promoted again in 1988, they got to the semi of the Premiership Playoff (twice) and the Yorkshire Cup final. Promoted again in 1993, they reached the semi of the Challenge Cup. Ok they were relegated in '87 & 92 but so what? There was a swift way back and now there isn't.
Teams should have grounds to to suit SL, and be financially sound, but the main qualification should be on the field of play it is after all a sport, and what happens on the field of play is waht sport is for!
After all what happened (is happening) at Wakey, Bradford, Cas, Salford, Crusaders, London are hardly good examples of the financial rigour that Super League requires are they?


There wasn't such a financial gap before 1995 between full time and part time.

Any team getting promoted now would have to change its entire playing staff to have that level of success. The Championship salary cap would cover about half a dozen $uperleague players' salaries.
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#29 Trojan

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 02:34 PM

There wasn't such a financial gap before 1995 between full time and part time.

Any team getting promoted now would have to change its entire playing staff to have that level of success. The Championship salary cap would cover about half a dozen $uperleague players' salaries.

And there shouldn't be one now but there is. And that's what's very wrong with our sport

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#30 Griff

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 02:56 PM

And there shouldn't be one now but there is. And that's what's very wrong with our sport


One what ? :mellow:
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#31 JohnM

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 04:43 PM

Hmmm....my post congratulating Featherstone Rovers and pointing out that the majority of posts were positive and congratulatory seems to have been thrown out with the bathwater.

#32 John Drake

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 04:59 PM

Hmmm....my post congratulating Featherstone Rovers and pointing out that the majority of posts were positive and congratulatory seems to have been thrown out with the bathwater.


You already congratulated them in post #26 which is still there.

Once the off-topic comments now in this thread were moved, your later comment about the majority of the posts in the other thread being positive and congratulatory looked a bit odd left hanging at the end, so I removed it.

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#33 Padge

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 05:02 PM

And there shouldn't be one now but there is. And that's what's very wrong with our sport


So if a club works it's aris off and gets 15,000 on average through its gates it should give a large chunk of its hard earned money to some lazy gets who only get half that average. Because that's what used to happen under the old levy system.

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#34 Griff

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 05:10 PM

So if a club works it's aris off and gets 15,000 on average through its gates it should give a large chunk of its hard earned money to some lazy gets who only get half that average. Because that's what used to happen under the old levy system.


Sadly, that's pretty much right - although most of the levy went towards paying referees etc. There wasn't much of a share-out from the levy but the effect was the bigger clubs footed the refereeing bills.

Ambitious clubs need to get some work done instead of begging for handouts.
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#35 Derwent

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 05:54 PM

So if a club works it's aris off and gets 15,000 on average through its gates it should give a large chunk of its hard earned money to some lazy gets who only get half that average. Because that's what used to happen under the old levy system.


If you want this nirvana of a strong league from top to bottom then yes they should, because it isn't going to happen otherwise. I'm not advocating it by the way, just pointing out that there are some on here that live in a fantasy world where all clubs can compete equally but it's not true and never will be unless you had a wealth distribution system. Wigan and Leeds will always be wealthy (comparatively) top clubs, Wakefield and Castleford will always be poor relations fighting for scraps and having the odd good season of scraping into the play offs. That's just a hard fact of life and no matter whether there is licensing or P&R nothing much will change in that regard.

#36 Griff

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 06:05 PM

If you want this nirvana of a strong league from top to bottom then yes they should, because it isn't going to happen otherwise. I'm not advocating it by the way, just pointing out that there are some on here that live in a fantasy world where all clubs can compete equally but it's not true and never will be unless you had a wealth distribution system. Wigan and Leeds will always be wealthy (comparatively) top clubs, Wakefield and Castleford will always be poor relations fighting for scraps and having the odd good season of scraping into the play offs. That's just a hard fact of life and no matter whether there is licensing or P&R nothing much will change in that regard.


That's a fair point and, of course, the Capitalists voting for Communism happened in the NFL. The downside, of course, is that if a club doesn't pull its weight, it can get voted out of the league.
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#37 Padge

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 06:10 PM

If you want this nirvana of a strong league from top to bottom then yes they should, because it isn't going to happen otherwise. I'm not advocating it by the way, just pointing out that there are some on here that live in a fantasy world where all clubs can compete equally but it's not true and never will be unless you had a wealth distribution system. Wigan and Leeds will always be wealthy (comparatively) top clubs, Wakefield and Castleford will always be poor relations fighting for scraps and having the odd good season of scraping into the play offs. That's just a hard fact of life and no matter whether there is licensing or P&R nothing much will change in that regard.


So maybe Wakefield and Cas should combine forces to compete with Leeds and Wigan.

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#38 Derwent

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 06:21 PM

So maybe Wakefield and Cas should combine forces to compete with Leeds and Wigan.


The problem is that people seem to assume that combining 2 clubs gives you a club twice as strong. It doesn't work like that unfortunately.

#39 gingerjon

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 06:27 PM

That's a fair point and, of course, the Capitalists voting for Communism happened in the NFL. The downside, of course, is that if a club doesn't pull its weight, it can get voted out of the league.


The NHL has just voted to do the same I believe and the NBA already does. The mechanisms are slightly different for each set up but the basic rule that the big market and wealthy teams should ensure the competitiveness of small market and less wealthy teams runs throughout all the systems.

We, of course, have nothing to learn from these pitifully small, backwards organisations.
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#40 Robin Evans

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 06:34 PM

Ahhhh this is where you've all been hiding!!
Right p&r.....
Those who believe in licencing won't ever yeild.
I and other who want a return to p&r are never going to change.
Is there actually anyone in the middle?
Is there any points to these threads now we've kind of established who has what opinion?

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