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Strictly Nostalgia or what might have been


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#1 keighley

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 05:30 PM

I was on the Keighley forum of RL Fans and someone has posted the whole of the BBC coverage of the second half of the Challenge Cup semi final from 1976, Keighley versus St Helens, result 5 to 4 to Saints.

Seeing as this is my home forum so to speak, I thought I would post some comments on that footage on here.

Firstly, it was 5 to 0 to Saints at the half and finished 5 to 4 and Brian Jefferson, a very much under rated full back, who played for Yorkshire and England, missed an easy penalty which would have won the game 6 to 5 and sent Keighley to Wembley and the whole history of the club might have been different. However he did drop two goals and another penalty to account for all of Keighley's points, made a try saving tackle under the Keighley posts and constantly pinned St Helens back in their own 25 by his kicking game. One of the best players in Keighley history without a doubt. Keighley also came the closest in that half to scoring a try and really deserved to win. The Keighley pack featured a big red harired prop named Burke, who, if i remember, was a bit of a character, and a former Welsh international second fow called Gallacher, who was the Captain

Keighley were in red shirts with a green and white diagonal from shoulder to waist, a very attractive shirt and a must for a retro issue if the club ever issue one.

I have never seen that footage before and really enjoyed watching it.

Other nostalgia points were the old Fartown ground with a big crowd for the game. The late great Eric Ashton, soon to be on the Wembley freize, in the Saints dugout. Eddie Waring commentating and real contested scrums. On the Saints side were Les Jones, Eric Mantle, Bill Benyon, Karalius the hooker. Other notables things which are now or may soon be history was a Saints pl;ayer playing the ball forward to himself and setting off on a run ( now abolished ) and the Saints winger, Jones, being shoulder charged into touch two yards from the Keighley line, this being now in the news with the moves to abolish the shoulder charge in Australia.

My apologies if this is boring but I thought it just a change of pace from the current issues and arguments on the board.

Waring also mentions in his commentary that Saints had won the BBC floodlit trophy that season, another blast from the past.

#2 oldrover

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 07:23 PM

I was on the Keighley forum of RL Fans and someone has posted the whole of the BBC coverage of the second half of the Challenge Cup semi final from 1976, Keighley versus St Helens, result 5 to 4 to Saints.

Seeing as this is my home forum so to speak, I thought I would post some comments on that footage on here.

Firstly, it was 5 to 0 to Saints at the half and finished 5 to 4 and Brian Jefferson, a very much under rated full back, who played for Yorkshire and England, missed an easy penalty which would have won the game 6 to 5 and sent Keighley to Wembley and the whole history of the club might have been different. However he did drop two goals and another penalty to account for all of Keighley's points, made a try saving tackle under the Keighley posts and constantly pinned St Helens back in their own 25 by his kicking game. One of the best players in Keighley history without a doubt. Keighley also came the closest in that half to scoring a try and really deserved to win. The Keighley pack featured a big red harired prop named Burke, who, if i remember, was a bit of a character, and a former Welsh international second fow called Gallacher, who was the Captain

Keighley were in red shirts with a green and white diagonal from shoulder to waist, a very attractive shirt and a must for a retro issue if the club ever issue one.

I have never seen that footage before and really enjoyed watching it.

Other nostalgia points were the old Fartown ground with a big crowd for the game. The late great Eric Ashton, soon to be on the Wembley freize, in the Saints dugout. Eddie Waring commentating and real contested scrums. On the Saints side were Les Jones, Eric Mantle, Bill Benyon, Karalius the hooker. Other notables things which are now or may soon be history was a Saints pl;ayer playing the ball forward to himself and setting off on a run ( now abolished ) and the Saints winger, Jones, being shoulder charged into touch two yards from the Keighley line, this being now in the news with the moves to abolish the shoulder charge in Australia.

My apologies if this is boring but I thought it just a change of pace from the current issues and arguments on the board.

Waring also mentions in his commentary that Saints had won the BBC floodlit trophy that season, another blast from the past.

some names to conjure with there, and agree about Brian Jefferson
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#3 marklaspalmas

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 07:56 PM

IF Keighley should've made the final, their opponents should've been Featherstone Rovers. 9-0 up at half-time, they were well in control but the loss of the influencial Phil Butler after the break led to a 15-9 defeat.

 

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#4 Trojan

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 09:42 PM

IIRC the Keighley player Burke was actually from Saint Helens, whereas the Saints player Gary Moorby was from Keighley - have I imagined this?
I went to the Fev Widnes semi at Station Road, I recall Fev scoring a try from a scrum in the Widnes half, which means they must have taken the ball against the feed - in those days if the scrum was in your half of the field no matter who'd offended you got the feed - and worked a move between the scrum half and the loose forward which resulted in the try Something almost unheard of in these days of "agreed" scrums. I also recall Steve Quinn kicking two penalties from difficult positions. It seemed to my (biased) eye that once the ref realised how good Quinn was he stopped awarding Fev penalties. However, Widnes had a big forward called Woods who looked really something, he was MOM for me - I wonder what happened to him?
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#5 jannerboyuk

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 10:15 PM

Thanks for that keighley, as someone not steeped in the game like you guys I always love learning stuff like this
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#6 southstand loiner

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 10:36 PM

some good points there . i have the dvd of the footage you have seen and it was a good game
ah a sunday night in front of the telly watching old rugby league games.
does life get any better .

#7 oldrover

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:23 PM

IIRC the Keighley player Burke was actually from Saint Helens, whereas the Saints player Gary Moorby was from Keighley - have I imagined this?
I went to the Fev Widnes semi at Station Road, I recall Fev scoring a try from a scrum in the Widnes half, which means they must have taken the ball against the feed - in those days if the scrum was in your half of the field no matter who'd offended you got the feed - and worked a move between the scrum half and the loose forward which resulted in the try Something almost unheard of in these days of "agreed" scrums. I also recall Steve Quinn kicking two penalties from difficult positions. It seemed to my (biased) eye that once the ref realised how good Quinn was he stopped awarding Fev penalties. However, Widnes had a big forward called Woods who looked really something, he was MOM for me - I wonder what happened to him?

iirc we were on the wrong end of that scrum move in the second half
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#8 davewd

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 07:33 AM

well i enjoyed that proper play the ball hardly any forword passes the ref just let them play thrilling stuff.Ive watched about 50odd years of challenge cup rugby and my favourite
final s are Wigan v Hunslet Halifax v hull fc.

#9 Old Frightful

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 08:07 AM

my favourite final s are Wigan v Hunslet Halifax v hull fc.

:huh:

Jeez, was that another one we lost at Wembley?

Seriously, Hull ain't played Halifax in a RL cup final in their history, the odd semi final certainly.

Did you perhaps mean Hull v Wigan in 1985, which is quite a few people's favourite final.

Loved reading the OP, shame there isn't a book about the history of the Challenge cup full of stuff like that...or is there?

          NO BUTS IT'S GOT TO BE BUTTER......                                 Z1N2MybzplQR6XBrwB9egniMH8xqYQ5s.jpg                                                                                                                     


#10 walter sobchak

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 09:03 AM

:huh:

Jeez, was that another one we lost at Wembley?

Seriously, Hull ain't played Halifax in a RL cup final in their history, the odd semi final certainly.

Did you perhaps mean Hull v Wigan in 1985, which is quite a few people's favourite final.

Loved reading the OP, shame there isn't a book about the history of the Challenge cup full of stuff like that...or is there?

Although I was to young to remember that final I've seen a replay of it on ESPN classics and I think it's the best final I've ever seen, what a great hull FC side that was by the way leuluai, sterling, crooks, schoefield etc. The best final I've seen live(on tv) was the 1996 saints v Bradford, the Robbie Paul hatrick and poor Nathan graham high bombs from bobby goulding.

#11 Old Frightful

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 09:54 AM

Although I was to young to remember that final I've seen a replay of it on ESPN classics and I think it's the best final I've ever seen, what a great hull FC side that was by the way leuluai, sterling, crooks, schoefield etc.

Certainly was a good final, with Hull just having too much of a deficit to pull back, although when Schofield made a half break near the end there was a little hope.

The game was lost just after half time with the Ferguson try from a loose Hull pass, IIRC.

I remember Hull's full back Gary Kemble being very out of sorts that day, which was unusual for him. Can't remember if it was as a result of a dreadful off the ball assault by Castleford's Ian Orum in the games leading up to the final or whether that came afterwards. Certainly Kemble was never the same after that.

Gary Divorty scored a try despite a fairly obvious bit of "crossing" by Hull but the best moment of the final, IMO, came from the resulting kick off.

John Muggleton fielded the kick off and took the tackle. Schofield to Fred Ah Kuoi then, for Shaun Edwards' benefit, here's what happened next....



(I know, I know, Wigan won eventually.. :( )

          NO BUTS IT'S GOT TO BE BUTTER......                                 Z1N2MybzplQR6XBrwB9egniMH8xqYQ5s.jpg                                                                                                                     


#12 Wolford6

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 10:11 AM

Stuart Gallacher was a Welsh international second row who initially signed for Bradford Northern, then moved to Keighley. In those days players were part-time and he was offered a job with Associated Weavers, a major carpet manufacturer. However, he was a bright capable bloke who did well for the company and rose up the management tree; my then mother-in-law worked with him and really liked him.

When AW got Thatchered,he went back to Llanelli and opened a carpet dealership. He was Chairman of Llanelli Scarlets for several years, retiring in 2009.


With regard to the game in question, was Terry O'Brien playing? He was a centre signed directly by Keighley from Welsh RU and played for the club for many years. He was a manager at Lucas Electronics in the town when I met him in the 1990's; a genuine nice bloke.

Edited by Wolford6, 20 January 2013 - 10:12 AM.

Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police


#13 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 10:43 AM

I was on the Keighley forum of RL Fans and someone has posted the whole of the BBC coverage of the second half of the Challenge Cup semi final from 1976, Keighley versus St Helens, result 5 to 4 to Saints.

Seeing as this is my home forum so to speak, I thought I would post some comments on that footage on here.

Firstly, it was 5 to 0 to Saints at the half and finished 5 to 4 and Brian Jefferson, a very much under rated full back, who played for Yorkshire and England, missed an easy penalty which would have won the game 6 to 5 and sent Keighley to Wembley and the whole history of the club might have been different. However he did drop two goals and another penalty to account for all of Keighley's points, made a try saving tackle under the Keighley posts and constantly pinned St Helens back in their own 25 by his kicking game. One of the best players in Keighley history without a doubt. Keighley also came the closest in that half to scoring a try and really deserved to win. The Keighley pack featured a big red harired prop named Burke, who, if i remember, was a bit of a character, and a former Welsh international second fow called Gallacher, who was the Captain

Keighley were in red shirts with a green and white diagonal from shoulder to waist, a very attractive shirt and a must for a retro issue if the club ever issue one.

I have never seen that footage before and really enjoyed watching it.

Other nostalgia points were the old Fartown ground with a big crowd for the game. The late great Eric Ashton, soon to be on the Wembley freize, in the Saints dugout. Eddie Waring commentating and real contested scrums. On the Saints side were Les Jones, Eric Mantle, Bill Benyon, Karalius the hooker. Other notables things which are now or may soon be history was a Saints pl;ayer playing the ball forward to himself and setting off on a run ( now abolished ) and the Saints winger, Jones, being shoulder charged into touch two yards from the Keighley line, this being now in the news with the moves to abolish the shoulder charge in Australia.

My apologies if this is boring but I thought it just a change of pace from the current issues and arguments on the board.

Waring also mentions in his commentary that Saints had won the BBC floodlit trophy that season, another blast from the past.


Have you got the link for the Keighley semi?

#14 Old Frightful

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 10:55 AM

Have you got the link for the Keighley semi?

Easy to find.


          NO BUTS IT'S GOT TO BE BUTTER......                                 Z1N2MybzplQR6XBrwB9egniMH8xqYQ5s.jpg                                                                                                                     


#15 Trojan

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 11:41 AM

Certainly was a good final, with Hull just having too much of a deficit to pull back, although when Schofield made a half break near the end there was a little hope.

The game was lost just after half time with the Ferguson try from a loose Hull pass, IIRC.

I remember Hull's full back Gary Kemble being very out of sorts that day, which was unusual for him. Can't remember if it was as a result of a dreadful off the ball assault by Castleford's Ian Orum in the games leading up to the final or whether that came afterwards. Certainly Kemble was never the same after that.

Gary Divorty scored a try despite a fairly obvious bit of "crossing" by Hull but the best moment of the final, IMO, came from the resulting kick off.

John Muggleton fielded the kick off and took the tackle. Schofield to Fred Ah Kuoi then, for Shaun Edwards' benefit, here's what happened next....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyQh_1rh7k0

(I know, I know, Wigan won eventually.. :( )

Without my Fev hat on I'd say the 1985 final was one of the best, and the '65 final. The 1982 replay at Elland Road was pretty good too.
"Your a one trick pony Trojan" - Parksider 10th March 2013

#16 keighley

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 12:14 PM

IF Keighley should've made the final, their opponents should've been Featherstone Rovers. 9-0 up at half-time, they were well in control but the loss of the influencial Phil Butler after the break led to a 15-9 defeat.


Featherstone V Keighley at Wembley. The RFL would have died of fright at the thought of a 50,000 crowd for their showpiece event.

#17 keighley

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 12:17 PM

IIRC the Keighley player Burke was actually from Saint Helens, whereas the Saints player Gary Moorby was from Keighley - have I imagined this?
I went to the Fev Widnes semi at Station Road, I recall Fev scoring a try from a scrum in the Widnes half, which means they must have taken the ball against the feed - in those days if the scrum was in your half of the field no matter who'd offended you got the feed - and worked a move between the scrum half and the loose forward which resulted in the try Something almost unheard of in these days of "agreed" scrums. I also recall Steve Quinn kicking two penalties from difficult positions. It seemed to my (biased) eye that once the ref realised how good Quinn was he stopped awarding Fev penalties. However, Widnes had a big forward called Woods who looked really something, he was MOM for me - I wonder what happened to him?


You are correct, Moorby was a Keighley born player. He was the coach the last time but one that the club were promoted.

Quinn got his own back though. He was absolutely deadly at Wembley when Fev defeated Hull in that humongeous upset.

#18 keighley

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 12:21 PM

Thanks for that keighley, as someone not steeped in the game like you guys I always love learning stuff like this


Thanks for that. I didn't know if I would bore people by posting it but many things get discussed on this forum from old grounds to rule changes to Eddie Waring and the Challenge Cup and I thought this coverage showed a lot of what is discussed in one package and for younger readers like yourself, it is an opportunity to see what we old codgers are talking about.

#19 shaun mc

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 12:24 PM

Was John Burke the prop at Keighley?

Someone needs to update Wikipedia - it combines the careers of John Burke (Keighely) with the ill-fated John Burke who played for Wigan and Workington into one person.

#20 keighley

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 12:27 PM

well i enjoyed that proper play the ball hardly any forword passes the ref just let them play thrilling stuff.Ive watched about 50odd years of challenge cup rugby and my favourite
final s are Wigan v Hunslet Halifax v hull fc.


I was at the Wigan v Hunslet final and if that was Hunslets swan song as a big occasion club, what a way to go. They pushed Wigan to the absolute limit and were the first losing team that I remember to take a lap of honour and get a standing ovation for their efforts.

The lance Todd trophy was shared with Hunslet's stand off, a true home grown product, Brian Gabbitas sharing it with Ray Ashby, Wigan's full back whom they plucked from obscurity at Liverpool City to become a star.

A real final for good guys and underdogs even if Hunslet didn't win the cup, they won hearts and mindsthat day.




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