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Algeria, Mali, Nigeria...time for the UN to show its strength?


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#1 JohnM

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 05:25 PM

We can't, won't and must not get sucked into action - Iraq and Afghanistan come to mind. However, there does seem to be trouble brewing. So what of the UN. Is that the way forward or is it just a huge waste of time and money?
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#2 John Drake

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 05:47 PM

What would you like the UN to do?

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#3 tonyXIII

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 05:57 PM

We can't, won't and must not get sucked into action - Iraq and Afghanistan come to mind. However, there does seem to be trouble brewing. So what of the UN. Is that the way forward or is it just a huge waste of time and money?
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A huge waste of lives, certainly.

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#4 Marauder

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 05:58 PM

SF are already there.
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#5 tonyXIII

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 05:58 PM

What would you like the UN to do?


Think very, very carefully before doing anything other than "jaw, jaw"!

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#6 Wolford6

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 06:28 PM

The best thing is to let those countries sort out their own problems. The terrorists in Algeria can't claim the (to them) moral ground that they were only responding to Western oppression of Moslems. The whole world knows that they were bumped off by fellow Moslems and all their intended propaganda has come to naught.

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#7 gingerjon

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 06:43 PM

The best thing is to let those countries sort out their own problems.


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#8 Methven Hornet

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 06:46 PM

"Time for the UN to show its strength?"

Time to show its military strength? And who would provide that?
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#9 Wolford6

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 08:02 PM

Tried that and seven Brits are dead as a result.


And how many have we lost in Iraq and Afghanistan?

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#10 Wolford6

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 08:17 PM

This doesn't do expat British workers any favours.


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#11 Mumby Magic

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 08:25 PM

There has to be a line where countries have to "just get on with it". USa have the tendanecy to get involved with practically everything and we tend to follow. Algeria is an extreme case presently and must be dealt with a careful eye on it. Mali and Nigeria? Let 'em get on with it including most of the world.

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#12 Northern Sol

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 09:34 PM

We can't, won't and must not get sucked into action - Iraq and Afghanistan come to mind. However, there does seem to be trouble brewing. So what of the UN. Is that the way forward or is it just a huge waste of time and money?


The UN was designed to prevent WWI or WWII being re-fought not to police force the world.

#13 kioli

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 07:06 AM

Like any of us have a say in the matter, gotta keep the M-I complex happy...



#14 JohnM

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:50 AM

What would you like the UN to do?


Hm..a tough one. But how about this extract from the UN Charter? It is only an extract, not the whole thing.


WE THE PEOPLES OF THE UNITED NATIONS DETERMINED
  • to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind, and
  • to reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person, in the equal rights of men and women and of nations large and small, and
  • to establish conditions under which justice and respect for the obligations arising from treaties and other sources of international law can be maintained, and
  • to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,

Edited by JohnM, 22 January 2013 - 08:54 AM.


#15 JohnM

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:52 AM

"Time for the UN to show its strength?"

Time to show its military strength? And who would provide that?


I merely ask the question on the basis that there seems to be growing instability in the region and that if no one does anything, then nothing will be done. If you are happy with that, then fine.

#16 John Drake

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 10:22 AM

Hm..a tough one. But how about this extract from the UN Charter? It is only an extract, not the whole thing.


WE THE PEOPLES OF THE UNITED NATIONS DETERMINED

  • to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind, and
  • to reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person, in the equal rights of men and women and of nations large and small, and
  • to establish conditions under which justice and respect for the obligations arising from treaties and other sources of international law can be maintained, and
  • to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,


That's a very fine statement of aims, but it doesn't address how to achieve them. It's easy to point the finger at the UN and say 'do something!' but what can they do that they aren't doing already, that's the tough question.

It's a talking shop, not a world police force. Jaw jaw instead of war war, that kind of approach. We've seen what disasters can occur when the UN does attempt to use force, which is probably why so many are now so wary of urging that kind of approach any more anywhere else.

We'll never know how many conflicts have been avoided by jaw jaw at the UN. Countless, I would imagine, which is why I can't agree with anyone who says it is a pointless waste of time and money because it isn't dispatching troops to every trouble spot around the globe in a visible show of force. The problem for the UN is diplomacy is dull. When it works, no one notices because conflicts are avoided. When it fails, we then expect the kind of response the UN wasn't designed to deliver.

I think the world is a far safer place with the UN in existence, but it is unrealistic to expect it to be able to find a solution to every conflict.

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#17 JohnM

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 10:43 AM

I've just re-read my post. I wasn't pointing a finger. I was asking a question. So given the interpretation of the UN as a talking shop, how far up their agenda do you think the situation in Africa is? I mean to say, this is not just any conflict...the rise of militant Islamic fundamental terrorism seems to me to be more than trivial and more than local.

Still, if the UN isn't the right forum, what is? Unless there really isn't a problem at all?

Edited by JohnM, 22 January 2013 - 10:45 AM.


#18 Wolford6

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:47 AM

The Western world (UN) left it to the African Union to stop human rights abuse against Christians by the Sudanese government. The AU force was useless as none of the African states wanted to upset Sudan. The poor Darfuri Christians still got displaced, tortured, raped and killed by Moslems.

If the Christian West is to do anything in Africa, it should restrict itself to protecting Christians against muslim atrocities.

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#19 WearyRhino

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:59 AM

The Western world (UN) left it to the African Union to stop human rights abuse against Christians by the Sudanese government. The AU force was useless as none of the African states wanted to upset Sudan. The poor Darfuri Christians still got displaced, tortured, raped and killed by Moslems.

If the Christian West is to do anything in Africa, it should restrict itself to protecting Christians against muslim atrocities.

Incidentally, I have no religion.


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#20 John Drake

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:24 PM

I've just re-read my post. I wasn't pointing a finger. I was asking a question. So given the interpretation of the UN as a talking shop, how far up their agenda do you think the situation in Africa is? I mean to say, this is not just any conflict...the rise of militant Islamic fundamental terrorism seems to me to be more than trivial and more than local.

Still, if the UN isn't the right forum, what is? Unless there really isn't a problem at all?


I don't know.

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