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EU - In or Out?


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240 replies to this topic

Poll: European Union - Should the UK be In or Out? (62 member(s) have cast votes)

European Union - Should the UK be In or Out?

  1. In (36 votes [58.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 58.06%

  2. Out (26 votes [41.94%])

    Percentage of vote: 41.94%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#181 Steve May

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:12 PM

I let my membership lapse.


Fair enough.

You didn't fancy fighting for whatever principles it was that caused you to be a Lib Dem in the first place?



PS That question sounded a little facetious, but it really wasn't meant to be.

That's me.  I'm done.


#182 Phil

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:01 PM

"I used to be a Lib Dem" ticket.



probably a pretty sizeable ticket these days. Still, when the going gets tough.........
"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

#183 Griff9of13

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:45 AM

He who sups with the devil needs a long spoon.
"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

#184 gingerjon

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 09:16 AM

You didn't fancy fighting for whatever principles it was that caused you to be a Lib Dem in the first place?


If there were a chance of returning a Lib Dem candidate locally then maybe and if virtually my entire life right now were not taken up with work and the increasing demands a special needs child is placing on me and the family then maybe again ...
Cheer up, RL is actually rather good
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#185 WearyRhino

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 09:33 AM

probably a pretty sizeable ticket these days. Still, when the going gets tough.........


Surely they need a help group to rehabilitate them integrate them back into society.

LUNEW.jpg


#186 Wolford6

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:25 AM

The Tories lost the Boundary Change vote last night, meaning it's now slightly more likely that Labour will win most seats at the next election.

Miliband will probably have to get into bed with several parties though for an outright majority.

In those circumstances, I reckon Cable will become Libdem leader and sign up to a deal.

Not good news for us anti-EUs

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#187 T-Dub

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 04:54 PM

A no vote to the EU is not necessarily right-wing. I voted no in the poll because I see it as a huge, undemocratic, capitalist oligarchy-in-the-making.


Its not often our poltics coincide, Phil but Id have expected you to vote 'in' as the closest teh UK could ever get to some international socialist collective

Strangely, I voted 'in'. I'm massively European although the current set up is wholly unacceptable to me an my way of thinking

When I see, for example young Germans being asked about the British stance they seem incredulous that UK isnt enthusiastic about the EU 'project'. What exactly is this 'project', what is its extent and what have mainland Europeans been told by their governments its about?

I recall (just) the arguments in 1973 an 1975 and they seemed to centre round the benefits of easier free trade and potential for cheap wine

No one mentionned a powerless parliament that relocates its monolithic administration every few months, a legislature that could superceed Westminster, a budget that uses tax from some countries to build infrastructure in others without reference to the payees or the potential for easy access to this country for Bulgarians etc (who we were locked in a cold war with at the time)

Some 'project'

Yes to the EU as a trading bloc, 'no' to the rest. The way to get the 'no to the rest' is to be inside and renegotiate terms. If this becomes apearrent we will continue, if not then any worthwhile British govt of any political colour should take us out

#188 Steve May

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 05:20 PM

If there were a chance of returning a Lib Dem candidate locally then maybe and if virtually my entire life right now were not taken up with work and the increasing demands a special needs child is placing on me and the family then maybe again ...


Ah well. Life gets in the way. I know that feeling very, very well.

I hope Little Ginger is getting the appropriate support through Early Years - the missus (you may recall, formerly a SENCO) always tells me what a difference it can make in the long run.

That's me.  I'm done.


#189 dhw

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 08:51 AM

I don't know what the percentage is. Like most of my friends, I can only draw inference from the relative numbers of newspaper court-reports and crime reports.

The point is, I'm damned sure that it doesn't suit national or local government bodies to let us know. I'm more than willing to be surprised by documented proof that my inferences are unfounded.


South Asian and East asian communities have significantly lower serious crime rates to similar socio-economic areas areas that you would consider traditional British communities. This is largely true right across the UK.

#190 Wolford6

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:25 AM

South Asian and East asian communities have significantly lower serious crime rates to similar socio-economic areas areas that you would consider traditional British communities. This is largely true right across the UK.


Can't you be more specific? Are you saying that the ethnic-Pakistani community in Bradford is proportionally less likely to commit crime than the ethnically- white population. Because that appears, shall we say, extremely unlikely.


On a national scale, the percentage of Moslems in UK prisons is 12.6%, as opposed to an overall population-density of 4.8%.

Given that the muslim population has doubled in the past ten years, there is a reasonable extrapolation that crime will grow at a higher percentage increase than the parallel population-increase.

In France, it's even worse.
http://www.washingto...8042802560.html

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#191 Griff9of13

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:27 AM

...and another thread crashes and burns as it descends into all things Muslim. <_<
"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

#192 Wolford6

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:37 AM

...and another thread crashes and burns as it descends into all things Muslim. <_<


Not really, the question of immigration is a crunch issue with regard to the UK's continued membership of the EU.

DHW made a statement, and I queried it.

In terms of crime, I think that if we get a huge influx of Bulgarian and Romanian immigrants, it will escalate again. We already have a disproportionate crime-rate from those already here.

http://www.dailymail...e-30m-year.html

http://www.telegraph...kicked-out.html

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#193 gingerjon

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:44 AM

Not really, the question of immigration is a crunch issue with regard to the UK's continued membership of the EU.

DHW made a statement, and I queried it.

In terms of crime, I think that if we get a huge influx of Bulgarian and Romanian immigrants, it will escalate again. We already have a disproportionate crime-rate from those already here.

http://www.dailymail...e-30m-year.html

http://www.telegraph...kicked-out.html


I like that 70% of the economy of a city of over 100,000 people is dependent on the decreasing amount of ATM credit card trickery done in this country.
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#194 Shadow

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:10 AM

Not really, the question of immigration is a crunch issue with regard to the UK's continued membership of the EU.

DHW made a statement, and I queried it.

In terms of crime, I think that if we get a huge influx of Bulgarian and Romanian immigrants, it will escalate again. We already have a disproportionate crime-rate from those already here.

http://www.dailymail...e-30m-year.html

http://www.telegraph...kicked-out.html

Given that the quote you queried stated "South Asian and East Asian" and Pakistan is clearly neither south nor east asia you must have either misread the original quote and replied using your special in-depth knowledge of crime rates by ethnic pakistani Moslems in the greater Bradford area or you read it correctly and chose to use the flimsiest of excuses to jump on your favourite hobby horse of crime rates by ethnic pakistani Moslems in the greater Bradford area, all nicely backed up by some totally irrelevant and tenuous inaccurate scare stories from the Mail and Torygraph.
Either way you managed to squeeze them darned Muzzers in there, well done.

Edited by Shadow, 31 January 2013 - 10:10 AM.

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#195 Wolford6

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:15 AM

Any time.
;) :)



Given that most of the former USSR, China and Mongolia are in Asia, then Pakistan and Bangladesh are not in the northernmost section of the continent. In fact they are in the south of the continent. Elementary geography, old boy.

What proof do you have that the stories in the Mail and Telegraph are 'inaccurate'? You could always report them to the Press complaints Commission.

How are reports of Eastern Europeans committing crimes in the UK, and our inability to deport them, 'irrelevant' to the arguments about remaining in the EU?

All in all, I fear it is your post that has used a flimsy excuse to attack what appears to be an insightful appraisal of attendant current and historic problems with immigrant communities.
;) :D

Edited by Wolford6, 31 January 2013 - 10:26 AM.

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#196 Shadow

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:04 AM

Any time.
;) :)



Given that most of the former USSR, China and Mongolia are in Asia, then Pakistan and Bangladesh are not in the northernmost section of the continent. In fact they are in the south of the continent. Elementary geography, old boy.

Au Contraire Monsieur, the bulk of Asia is to the south and east of Pakistan which would make it in the West or Central Western area

What proof do you have that the stories in the Mail and Telegraph are 'inaccurate'? You could always report them to the Press complaints Commission.

I admit I am making a leap of faith in assuming the Daily Mail and Daily Telegraph to have more than a passing acquaintance with the facts in a story about immigration, however past experiences suggests that even the most superficial reading of the wider evidence will prove that both papers spin on the stories will contain distortions, half truths, assumptions stated as fact, questionable statistics and outright lies.
If by some miracle they have developed some journalistic integrity I will stand corrected. I don't expect to though.

How are reports of Eastern Europeans committing crimes in the UK, and our inability to deport them, 'irrelevant' to the arguments about remaining in the EU?

They are irrelevant to the debate about Pakistani Moslems in Bradford. There is an entirely separate debate to be had on the deportation of criminals post sentence. Is suspect your views and mine will differ, yours will be based upon poorly written articles from right wing papers, mine will of course be well considered, erudite and correct :D

All in all, I fear it is your post that has used a flimsy excuse to attack what appears to be an insightful appraisal of attendant current and historic problems with immigrant communities.
;) :D


I am pleased you recognise there has been an insightful appraisal written, where I fear you have made the fundamental error is in identifying the author, modesty forbids me from giving you any more of a clue than this ;)

Edited by Shadow, 31 January 2013 - 11:05 AM.

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#197 Wolford6

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:06 AM

Nice try.

Here's a map of the world, including Asia.



http://geology.com/w...world-map.shtml

Edited by Wolford6, 31 January 2013 - 11:11 AM.

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#198 Shadow

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:07 AM

Nice try.

That'll be the RL influence obviously ;)
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#199 Wolford6

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:18 AM

This one might work!!
:D

http://www.mapsofwor...-map-image.html

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#200 Shadow

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:23 AM

Posted Image
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