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EU - In or Out?


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Poll: European Union - Should the UK be In or Out? (62 member(s) have cast votes)

European Union - Should the UK be In or Out?

  1. In (36 votes [58.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 58.06%

  2. Out (26 votes [41.94%])

    Percentage of vote: 41.94%

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#201 Northern Sol

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:27 AM

Au Contraire Monsieur, the bulk of Asia is to the south and east of Pakistan which would make it in the West or Central Western area


That's just playing semantic games. South Asia, as you well know, is the Indian subcontinent taking in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Nepal and Bhutan for good measure. West Asia is the MIddle East.

#202 Wolford6

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:28 AM

Posted Image


:lol:

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#203 Shadow

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:28 AM

So West is East, Black is White, War is Peace and Freedom is Slavery
God Rides a Harley but the Devil rides a Ducati!

#204 Northern Sol

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:29 AM

South Asian and East asian communities have significantly lower serious crime rates to similar socio-economic areas areas that you would consider traditional British communities. This is largely true right across the UK.


I'm not sure statistics on this kind of thing are in the public domain. Where did you get this information from?

Edited by Northern Sol, 31 January 2013 - 11:41 AM.


#205 Shadow

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:31 AM

:lol:

Probably should come with a NSFW warning, quite offensive in parts but it's satire so that's fine :D
God Rides a Harley but the Devil rides a Ducati!

#206 Northern Sol

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:32 AM

So West is East, Black is White, War is Peace and Freedom is Slavery


No, it means that these terms were created to serve a purpose and "South Asia" serves one particular purpose as does "Central Asia" and to a lesser extent "West Asia". Nobody has yet, to my knowledge, found a need for "West Central Asia".

#207 Wolford6

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:35 AM

So West is East, Black is White, War is Peace and Freedom is Slavery




http://flowerpower89...history-lesson/

Edited by Wolford6, 31 January 2013 - 11:50 AM.

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#208 Shadow

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 12:04 PM

No, it means that these terms were created to serve a purpose and "South Asia" serves one particular purpose as does "Central Asia" and to a lesser extent "West Asia". Nobody has yet, to my knowledge, found a need for "West Central Asia".

It seems to me that when I was younger "Asia" specifically referred to the far east, China, Japan, Korea etc whereas now it specifically refers to Pakistan.
I am not sure why this has come about, although I'm certain the panel will have some opinions.
God Rides a Harley but the Devil rides a Ducati!

#209 Wolford6

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 12:09 PM

It seems to me that when I was younger "Asia" specifically referred to the far east, China, Japan, Korea etc whereas now it specifically refers to Pakistan.
I am not sure why this has come about, although I'm certain the panel will have some opinions.


My Sikh and Hindu friends have some strong opinions about this issue.

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#210 Northern Sol

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 12:36 PM

It seems to me that when I was younger "Asia" specifically referred to the far east, China, Japan, Korea etc whereas now it specifically refers to Pakistan.
I am not sure why this has come about, although I'm certain the panel will have some opinions.


Asia originally referred to Anatolia (now known as Asia Minor), the Europeans later used this term to describe anything east of Europe.

I have an Atlas from the 1930s, in it, pre-partition British India is clearly in Asia. The understand of what is or is not Asia hasn't changed since then.

What has changed is that we now have large numbers of South Asians living in the UK, for obvious reasons, Pakistanis etc don't care to be referred to as "Indian" hence the term is usually used to mean "Desi" (the South Asian term for themselves collectively).

In the US, there are a lot of East Asians but relatively speaking few South Asians and thus the term is more commonly used to refer to those of Chinese, Korean or Japanese descent e.g. Asian-Americans.

#211 dhw

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 01:06 PM

Can't you be more specific? Are you saying that the ethnic-Pakistani community in Bradford is proportionally less likely to commit crime than the ethnically- white population. Because that appears, shall we say, extremely unlikely.


On a national scale, the percentage of Moslems in UK prisons is 12.6%, as opposed to an overall population-density of 4.8%.

Given that the muslim population has doubled in the past ten years, there is a reasonable extrapolation that crime will grow at a higher percentage increase than the parallel population-increase.

In France, it's even worse.
http://www.washingto...8042802560.html


You were the one making vague sweeping statements, yet you are asking me to be specific. You are now switching your argument from ethnicity to religion to suit your own purposes. Which type of crimes are you talking about? Are we talking defaulting on a loan, not having a TV licence or are we talking about violent crimes where there is a real personal victim ?

Also I made a definite reference to social and economic factors you obviously do not think they are a factor, but universally people from the poorest backgrounds and the lowest ends of the social classes are the groups most likely to commit serious crimes.

You cannot say whether the crimes committed have gone up or down over a given period, you can only do that for reported crime, by the way reported serious crime has fallen . Until quite recently you were three times as likely to receive a custodial sentence for the same offence if you were of African/Afro-carribean heritage as opposed to a white british counterpart.

#212 Northern Sol

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 01:08 PM

Until quite recently you were three times as likely to receive a custodial sentence for the same offence if you were of African/Afro-carribean heritage as opposed to a white british counterpart.


One thing you overlook here is that it isn't "the same offence". It is one given the same overall name but will have different aggravating / mitigating factors.

#213 dhw

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 01:15 PM

That's just playing semantic games. South Asia, as you well know, is the Indian subcontinent taking in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Nepal and Bhutan for good measure. West Asia is the MIddle East.


But the middle east straddles three continents.

#214 dhw

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 01:17 PM

It seems to me that when I was younger "Asia" specifically referred to the far east, China, Japan, Korea etc whereas now it specifically refers to Pakistan.
I am not sure why this has come about, although I'm certain the panel will have some opinions.


According the the British government the Chinese are not considered asian. Asian now seems to mean people from the Indian sub-continent.

#215 Wolford6

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 01:18 PM

You were the one making vague sweeping statements, yet you are asking me to be specific. You are now switching your argument from ethnicity to religion to suit your own purposes. Which type of crimes are you talking about? Are we talking defaulting on a loan, not having a TV licence or are we talking about violent crimes where there is a real personal victim ?



I referred to prison inmates; very few people go to prison for defaulting on a loan or not paying their TV licence fee.

In Bradford, within the sub-continent immigrants, religion is much more significant than ethnicity when it comes to appraising crime figures. That is why my Hindu and Sikh associates are "offended" when suspects are routinely referred to as 'Asians'.


Here's an example from today's Yorkshire Post:

http://www.yorkshire...shire-1-5367037

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#216 Wolford6

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 01:22 PM

Anyway, commonsense says it would be better to restrict this thread to current EU issues, not historic Commonwealth issues.

Let's restrict the immigration issue to: -
- those potential immigrants from EU countries
- the difficulty of sending EU criminals home

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#217 dhw

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 01:40 PM

I referred to prison inmates; very few people go to prison for defaulting on a loan or not paying their TV licence fee.

In Bradford, within the sub-continent immigrants, religion is much more significant than ethnicity when it comes to appraising crime figures. That is why my Hindu and Sikh associates are "offended" when suspects are routinely referred to as 'Asians'.


Here's an example from today's Yorkshire Post:

http://www.yorkshire...shire-1-5367037


You were talking about crimes originally, now changing it to prison. You are switched between religion and ethnicity to suit your argument. As for the article it says nothing about crime statistics and does nothing to prove your original point. You are making a generalised statement and showing individual instances of crimes. You are clearly thinking of Violent Crime but using evidence regarding general crime. Also you obviously have a general beef about Muslims from Pakistan, maybe a better idea to concentrate on that.

Religion has next to no significant correlation with crime neither does ethnicity but social/economic conditions and environment have a very big correlation. Denying that would be ignoring reality and the reams of academic research available.

The justice department provide regualr stats on the justice system.

#218 Wolford6

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 01:54 PM

I've said my piece and I'm leaving it at that.

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#219 Wolford6

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:05 PM

http://www.walesonli...91466-32690942/



I'm definitely not going back if Leanne Wood gets elected. Fortunately, there's very little chance of that.

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#220 Wolford6

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:05 PM

http://www.walesonli...91466-32690942/



I'm definitely not going back if Leanne Wood gets elected. Fortunately, there's very little chance of that.

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