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EU - In or Out?


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Poll: European Union - Should the UK be In or Out? (62 member(s) have cast votes)

European Union - Should the UK be In or Out?

  1. In (36 votes [58.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 58.06%

  2. Out (26 votes [41.94%])

    Percentage of vote: 41.94%

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#61 Li0nhead

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 12:34 PM

I personally would vote to stay.

As for a referendum:

I personally think no don't have one. Not until an independent investigation/research is done into what the EU benefits/costs us.
The 'In' people throw the lines '3 million jobs' '40% trade' and other worthless figures about.
The 'out' people throw rabid arguments out about 'handing over power' and 'costing billions'.
What i would like is an independent group research/investigate all the costs and benefits of membership, present it to us with their conclusion to the UK and then have a referendum and i would go with their conclusion if i had confidence in the research.

My natural position is we should be part of A EU, just it should be a massively reformed EU with powers put back into the hands of govts, slim down the institution but mainly be a trading block with co-operation on other issues such as environment etc.

#62 kioli

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 04:16 PM

OFC you're going to stay. But this way Cameron gets Farage's vote and Merkel bends over backwards to keep you happy.

Don't you guys normally hate it when France does stuff like this? ;)

#63 WearyRhino

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:00 PM

... and Merkel bends over backwards ...


I now feel very queasy.

LUNEW.jpg


#64 longboard

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:35 PM

I now feel very queasy.


Jeremy Vine had difficulty with a mental image of A Merkel also:-



#65 Just Browny

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:55 PM

In, obviously.

Aside from the fact I like my job, there are so many areas in which we can no longer remain in rooted in some Westphalian fallacy whereby the world stops cleanly at our borders - in policing, foreign policy, environment and social policy - to name four quickly off the top of our head - we are reliant on European co-operation and benefit enormously from it.

The concern, of course, is that Mr Cameron will ignore many of these areas and make the question/argument entirely one of the single market - while perversely attempting to drag us out of social rights that are integral to a single market.

Still, he's right to argue for our continued participation - anything else would be insanity. Other than that, Shadow and Methven Hornet are bob-on as usual.

I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.


#66 Methven Hornet

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 08:15 PM

I'll let you google who UKIP's 'Scotland leader' is. He is an interesting character...


Oh aye, Marty Feldman's love child!
"There are now more pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs."

#67 Saintslass

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 08:52 PM

The Greek financial crisis had nothing to do with their membership or otherwise of the Euro,

I didn't say it did. I cited Greece in response to someone who thought my claim that we aren't in financial calamity was funny. I also cited the 1930s, both as examples of much worse financial situations than the one we are in, or have been in at any time since 2008 when the bank crash happened.

The part of my post you quoted had nothing to do with Greece; you quoted instead the bit I wrote in response to a point about self-determination in getting out of the economic downturn. My comment related to the freedom to make your own judgement calls about what action to take to resolve the problem. Greece, like Ireland, were tied to a specific system. We have had the flexibility that comes with being outside of the Eurozone. We don't have anyone dictating terms to us either. Staying out of the Eurozone was a good decision; one of the very few made by Gordon Brown.

Edited by Saintslass, 24 January 2013 - 09:10 PM.


#68 Saintslass

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 08:53 PM

Or believe and trust what the likes of The Daily Wail, Express, #### etc have to say on the matter bears even a slight resemblance to the truth.

I wouldn't know. I read The Times.

#69 Saintslass

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:00 PM

The coalition won't appear on the ballot paper, and it'll be about the economic situation as it is in 2015, not as it is now. It might be better, it could be a lot worse.

Indeed.

The rise in employment can't be taken in isolation as an indicator of electoral success.

You used it as an example and I responded accordingly.

Edited by Saintslass, 24 January 2013 - 09:01 PM.


#70 Saintslass

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:08 PM

But, back to the point, I would call a triple-dip recession a financial calamity.

I wouldn't. At least not our version of one anyway. When we got to the double dip stage the economy was still growing, just not as much as it had been. The pundits (BBC ones anyway) called it a 'technical' recession because of this. Any triple dip will be likewise as no doubt the economy will still be growing just not as much as people would like.

And that seems to be very clearly where we're heading.

Lefties and the BBC (which is also leftie so I suppose I didn't need to separate it) would love that to be the case. They would relish continued struggle as evidence of how awful the coalition government is. However, at no time yet has the clown leading the Labour Party ever specified how his party would do things differently. That's because they know full well that they would have had to have made all the same decisions as the coalition have done.

Edited by Saintslass, 24 January 2013 - 09:08 PM.


#71 Steve May

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:25 PM

Lefties and the BBC (which is also leftie so I suppose I didn't need to separate it) would love that to be the case.


:rolleyes:

That's me.  I'm done.


#72 Methven Hornet

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 10:57 PM

Lefties and the BBC (which is also leftie so I suppose I didn't need to separate it) would love that to be the case.


:lol:
"There are now more pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs."

#73 Northern Sol

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 11:15 PM

In, obviously.

Aside from the fact I like my job, there are so many areas in which we can no longer remain in rooted in some Westphalian fallacy whereby the world stops cleanly at our borders - in policing, foreign policy, environment and social policy - to name four quickly off the top of our head - we are reliant on European co-operation and benefit enormously from it.

The concern, of course, is that Mr Cameron will ignore many of these areas and make the question/argument entirely one of the single market - while perversely attempting to drag us out of social rights that are integral to a single market.

Still, he's right to argue for our continued participation - anything else would be insanity. Other than that, Shadow and Methven Hornet are bob-on as usual.


Social rights aren't integral to a single market; a lack of trade barriers is, social rights isn't a trade barrier.

#74 Wolford6

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:35 AM

The concern, of course, is that Mr Cameron will ignore many of these areas and make the question/argument entirely one of the single market - while perversely attempting to drag us out of social rights that are integral to a single market.


Every one of the EU countries buys oil from the Middle East and shedloads of manufactured goods from China and India ... none of which have remotely acceptable social and employment rights.

Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police


#75 WearyRhino

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:36 AM

Social rights aren't integral to a single market; a lack of trade barriers is, social rights isn't a trade barrier.


Social rights are essential for a fair single market. They impact on fitness to work in terms of health, housing etc; on employment law and rights at work; training and skills development; pension rights; equalities legislation; free movement of labour; industrial regeneration etc etc etc

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#76 Shadow

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:53 AM

Every one of the EU countries buys oil from the Middle East and shedloads of manufactured goods from China and India ... none of which have remotely acceptable social and employment rights.

I can only speak for UK Supermarkets but their buying teams make regular unannounced visits to third world suppliers to ensure the factories meet EU Health & Safety and Employment standards.
God Rides a Harley but the Devil rides a Ducati!

#77 Severus

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:53 AM

Lefties and the BBC (which is also leftie so I suppose I didn't need to separate it) would love that to be the case. They would relish continued struggle

Oh good god she's at it again. :lol:
Fides invicta triumphat

#78 gingerjon

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:15 AM

Social rights are essential for a fair single market. They impact on fitness to work in terms of health, housing etc; on employment law and rights at work; training and skills development; pension rights; equalities legislation; free movement of labour; industrial regeneration etc etc etc


Well, the same rights across all workers are essential for a fair market.

So if we had Dickensian rights here for the market to be fair they would also need Dickensian rights in Slovakia.
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#79 WearyRhino

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:22 AM

So if we had Dickensian rights here for the market to be fair they would also need Dickensian rights in Slovakia.


So that's what the coalition is trying to achieve.

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#80 Wolford6

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:23 AM

Oh good god she's at it again. :lol:


Stick with it Saintslass, you're views are just as relevant as anyone else's on here, and well appreciated.

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