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EU - In or Out?


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Poll: European Union - Should the UK be In or Out? (62 member(s) have cast votes)

European Union - Should the UK be In or Out?

  1. In (36 votes [58.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 58.06%

  2. Out (26 votes [41.94%])

    Percentage of vote: 41.94%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#121 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 01:23 PM

I do, however think that he is frightened by UKIP. IN 1974 the legend has it that the miners overthrew the Heath government. What actually happened was that the Tories lost many marginal seats to Labour, especially in the West Midlands because Enoch Powell intervened and recommended people vote Labour because Labour were offering a referendum on Europe. For Enoch read UKIP in the present case. If the Tories lose votes to UKIP that could let Labour in by the back door
My view is that being out of the EU would be a disaster for this country. Those in favour cite Switzerland (sitting on half the world's gold stocks) and Norway (sitting on huge gas and oil reserves) These countries thrive beause of these benefits, but they are effectively members of the EU - they have to abide by all the EU regulations etc - but have no part in framing them. We'd be the same but without their economic advantages.

I don't think he is scared of UKIP (their actually performances at by-elections, etc isn't that great), I think he is more scared of 80-100+ of his own MP's who seem to think this is a good time to cause him some pain. He got them elected (nearly) to government but they think they can go back to old ways/ideas. They haven't realised the world has moved on. A centre right party only just got into power, a move to the right would doom them.
With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#122 Trojan

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 02:36 PM

I'm curious as to how you can sound so sure that other countries don't have their version of UKIP or that it is just us who are uncertain whether we should be 'in or out'. Can anyone know each European country well enough to state either of those positions with certainty?

Because if they had our press would seize the opportunity to talk them up. We do not constantly hear of such and such a member state saying that if they don't get their own way over such and such an issue they're packing their bags and leaving, only from the Tories. The right of the Tory party want out, principally IMO so they can get rid of a lot of the employment protection and H&S protectiion that EU memebership has brought. Plus of course regulations that govern the quality of goods and the way they are made. The Tory party are the management party and they make the case that all we need in this country to be successful is to free up management from such regulation so that they can exploit their employees to the maximum - that is the only way they see for British business to be successful. The Tories have already increased the period for wrongful dismissal and are about to cut the period of notice required for redundancy. Once we are out of the EU they'll go through the workers like a dose of salts.
There's penlty of stuff the EU does that I don't like but on the whole I reckon majority of us are far better off in than out.
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#123 Northern Sol

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 02:42 PM

Because if they had our press would seize the opportunity to talk them up. We do not constantly hear of such and such a member state saying that if they don't get their own way over such and such an issue they're packing their bags and leaving, only from the Tories.


Other countries do have anti-EU parties e.g. Ireland has Sinn Fein. We don't hear much about them because for some reason, British media do not give much coverage to European politics, for instance, Belgium had a major formation crisis with no party able to form a govenment for over a year yet few people in Britain have ever heard of it.

#124 Saintslass

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 03:58 PM

On our own, we have little protection and if we think the US is our friend, think again if times are tough. They don't care about us, unless we are helping them in a war zone.

That is why the US is nervous about us leaving the EU. We are the only nation in the region that can be relied upon to rally to their side no matter what they do. Don't underestimate that loyalty though (our loyalty I mean). It is very important to the US. They wouldn't get it from Germany and they do not get it from France, and they know it. Although, under Merkel, they have managed to get closer to Germany of late.

#125 gingerjon

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 04:00 PM

We are the only nation in the region that can be relied upon to rally to their side no matter what they do.


I thought you were saying something about the need for us to make our own decisions?
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#126 tim2

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 04:08 PM

I thought you were saying something about the need for us to make our own decisions?


We do - we decide to do whatever the Americans ask us to.
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#127 Saintslass

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 04:21 PM

Other countries do have anti-EU parties e.g. Ireland has Sinn Fein. We don't hear much about them because for some reason, British media do not give much coverage to European politics, for instance, Belgium had a major formation crisis with no party able to form a govenment for over a year yet few people in Britain have ever heard of it.

I heard about it but not exactly in any detail. I think it's a trait in our culture, or perhaps just our media I don't know, to look west more often than east (at least the near east of Europe). I remember reading Bill Bryson's* take on this in his book 'Notes from a Small Island' when he observed that if world geography was constructed entirely by what we read in the papers or see on TV we would have 'no choice but to conclude that America must be about where Ireland is [and] that France and Germany lie roughly alongside the Azores'. He goes on to say 'If there is a political crisis in Italy or a neuclear spill in Karlsruhe, it gets maybe eight inches on an inside page. But if some woman in Sh**kicker, West Virginia, cuts off her husband's d ick and flings it out the window in a fit of pique, it's second lead on the news and the Sunday Times is mobilising the 'Insight' team'. Not the most intellectually challenging way of putting it but pretty astute I think. Although his book was written in 1995 I don't think much has changed really. We still hear a stupid amount about life in the States but hardly anything about life on the other side of the English Channel. I don't know whether the media is driven by the interests of British people in this or the other way around but the fact that it is so could explain something when it comes to considering the pros and cons of the EU.

*Bill Bryson was an American journalist and travel writter who married an English woman and settled in England.

Edited by Saintslass, 26 January 2013 - 04:22 PM.


#128 Saintslass

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 04:24 PM

I thought you were saying something about the need for us to make our own decisions?

And how is deciding to back the Americans a comment upon our ability to make our own decisions? We simply decide to back them. It's often in our own interests to do so. Apart from anything else, we do a sizeable amount of trade with the USA.

#129 Trojan

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:39 PM

The old chestnut "Big storm in Channel, Continent isolated" shows about where our media is coming from where Europe is concerned
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#130 Shadow

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 09:05 PM

*Bill Bryson was an American journalist and travel writter who married an English woman and settled in England.


Thanks, could you also perhaps tell us all who Bill Clinton and Walt Disney were?
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#131 Saintslass

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 09:34 PM

Thanks, could you also perhaps tell us all who Bill Clinton and Walt Disney were?

Very funny. No, really. Not.

Given he hasn't written a travel book in over a decade I didn't assume that everyone would know who he was.

#132 Methven Hornet

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 12:41 AM

Latest polling figures from Com-Res (figures in brackets show change from last month). All fieldwork for the poll carried out after Cameron's speech.

CON 33%(+5),
LAB 39%(nc),
LDEM 11%(+2),
UKIP 10%(-4)

A fairly hefty swing from UKIP to Conservatives!

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#133 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 12:50 AM

Com-res have changed the way they crunch the numbers.

http://ukpollingrepo...g/archives/6908

By my rough, back-of-a-fag-packet reckoning, if ComRes had used the methodology they used last month they’d have shown topline figures of CON 32%, LAB 37%, LD 11%, UKIP 13% – so it would still have shown a Conservative increase, but UKIP would have suffered a smaller drop, with Labour also falling slightly.


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#134 Wolford6

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 03:47 AM

Mid-term polls only show voting trends not active votes. On such trends, it is indicated that the Libdems and UKIP attract~20% of the vote ... enoughto decide the resultant parliamentary control regime.

As such, after a General Election, the Cabinet/governing body could be crucially controlled (50% say-so on any given issue) by a party with only one third of the popularity of the runner-up party in that election.

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#135 Padge

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 09:41 AM

Very funny. No, really. Not.

Given he hasn't written a travel book in over a decade I didn't assume that everyone would know who he was.

You once again assume wrongly, its a habit of yours.

Edited by Padge, 27 January 2013 - 09:41 AM.


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#136 Wolford6

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 10:32 AM

Keep it up Saintslass, you've roused this lot's inner Grumpy Old Man.
:D

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#137 Methven Hornet

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:17 AM

Com-res have changed the way they crunch the numbers.

http://ukpollingrepo...g/archives/6908


Shush! :lol:

Com-Res have changed their methodology, but seem to have switched back again this month. Apparently, if you disregard the changes there has still been a small swing. Still the latest GDP figures won't have helped (although some Tory supporters will, obviously, see a decline of 0.3% as the 'economy still growing'). ;)
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#138 Saintslass

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 12:01 PM

You once again assume wrongly,

And you know this how? Have you polled everyone who reads this forum?

#139 Northern Sol

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 12:06 PM

And you know this how? Have you polled everyone who reads this forum?


There is only a requirement to back up what you are saying on the general forum, on this forum, you can claim to be able to read minds unchallenged. Or so it seems.

#140 Wolford6

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 12:27 PM

There is only a requirement to back up what you are saying on the general forum, on this forum, you can claim to be able to read minds unchallenged. Or so it seems.


it's still doing the business.

:D

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A high horse yesterday.

Edited by Wolford6, 27 January 2013 - 12:31 PM.

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