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EU - In or Out?


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Poll: European Union - Should the UK be In or Out? (62 member(s) have cast votes)

European Union - Should the UK be In or Out?

  1. In (36 votes [58.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 58.06%

  2. Out (26 votes [41.94%])

    Percentage of vote: 41.94%

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#161 Northern Sol

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 05:27 PM

Is anyone far left on here?


Only about 3-4 people.

#162 JohnM

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 06:04 PM

No.

Was it fun?

Did it involve staring at the German teacher's legs? That's about the only thing I can remember from school.

bout as much fun as anything could be in a school of the 1950s/60s/ Ours seemed to be the one out of Kes!

#163 Wolford6

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 07:35 PM

Wishful thinking, that one was in Yorkshire. :)

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#164 JohnM

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:11 PM

:) Hardly! It just emphasises the sheer horror of it all - and nearly ten years before the book was published, our gym teacher was a Brian Glover look-a-like! :o

Edited by JohnM, 28 January 2013 - 10:11 PM.


#165 Methven Hornet

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:25 PM

:) Hardly! It just emphasises the sheer horror of it all - and nearly ten years before the book was published, our gym teacher was a Brian Glover look-a-like! :o


Looks are irrelevant - did he sound like him?
"There are now more pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs."

#166 Wolford6

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:38 PM

Looks are irrelevant - did he sound like him?


My mate and I met him once having an after-show drink in the bar at the Victoria Theatre in Halifax when he appeared in The Canterbury Tales. He sounded exactly the same offstage as on.

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#167 Methven Hornet

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:46 PM

I must admit that I haven't really been paying much attention to the detail of the proposal (is there any detail?), but could anyone explain the mechanics of what Cameron is proposing?

He intends to repatriate powers from the EU to Westminster but how will this be achieved? Will it need a new treaty, or is there some accelerated method of amending existing ones?

If it is a new treaty then it will require the approval of all other member states, plus at least one other referendum (in Ireland). If existing treaties can be amended then, presumably, authorisation from the EU will be by majority vote of the European Council. Has any of this been outlined in press reports?

The proposition for the actual vote seems a bit of, well, a hybrid. It appears to propose a multi-option referendum with one of the options missing. We may be allowed to vote for the re-negotiated terms, or to come out of the EU altogether, but what about staying in on the current terms? The normal procedure if you were renegotiating amendments to something would be that if the final package was rejected, then the proposal would fall,the status quo would remain, and you would then have to decide on whether to stay in or come out. Has this been explained by Cameron or in the press?
"There are now more pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs."

#168 Methven Hornet

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:47 PM

My mate and I met him once having an after-show drink in the bar at the Victoria Theatre in Halifax when he appeared in The Canterbury Tales. He sounded exactly the same offstage as on.


I sort of imagined he would.
"There are now more pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs."

#169 gingerjon

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 06:24 AM

I must admit that I haven't really been paying much attention to the detail of the proposal (is there any detail?), but could anyone explain the mechanics of what Cameron is proposing?

He intends to repatriate powers from the EU to Westminster but how will this be achieved? Will it need a new treaty, or is there some accelerated method of amending existing ones?

If it is a new treaty then it will require the approval of all other member states, plus at least one other referendum (in Ireland). If existing treaties can be amended then, presumably, authorisation from the EU will be by majority vote of the European Council. Has any of this been outlined in press reports?

The proposition for the actual vote seems a bit of, well, a hybrid. It appears to propose a multi-option referendum with one of the options missing. We may be allowed to vote for the re-negotiated terms, or to come out of the EU altogether, but what about staying in on the current terms? The normal procedure if you were renegotiating amendments to something would be that if the final package was rejected, then the proposal would fall,the status quo would remain, and you would then have to decide on whether to stay in or come out. Has this been explained by Cameron or in the press?


What has been reported - I haven't checked the detail for its accuracy, but this is the consistent view - is that he will seek to renegotiate the UK position and then ask a straight in/out question based on that renegotiated position. The referendum will be in 2017, so I assume the renegotiation will be 2015/16 after the next election.
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#170 gingerjon

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 06:25 AM

You should have paid more attention to what was coming out of his mouth


:D
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#171 Methven Hornet

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 03:45 PM

What has been reported - I haven't checked the detail for its accuracy, but this is the consistent view - is that he will seek to renegotiate the UK position and then ask a straight in/out question based on that renegotiated position. The referendum will be in 2017, so I assume the renegotiation will be 2015/16 after the next election.


I wonder what happens if the UK electorate vote for the re-negotiated package (ie to stay in the EU), but the rest of the EU member states reject it. Presumably, the new deal would have to be ratified by all the member states (or a majority if it's just amendments to existing treaties) first, then put to the UK electorate. If no deal is agreed then does Cameron just have a straight in-out referendum on the existing membership terms?
"There are now more pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs."

#172 Shadow

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 03:48 PM

I wonder what happens if the UK electorate vote for the re-negotiated package (ie to stay in the EU), but the rest of the EU member states reject it. Presumably, the new deal would have to be ratified by all the member states (or a majority if it's just amendments to existing treaties) first, then put to the UK electorate. If no deal is agreed then does Cameron just have a straight in-out referendum on the existing membership terms?

He's got to win an overall majority at the next election first so it's fairly well academic anyway.
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#173 Steve May

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 03:49 PM

What has been reported - I haven't checked the detail for its accuracy, but this is the consistent view - is that he will seek to renegotiate the UK position and then ask a straight in/out question based on that renegotiated position. The referendum will be in 2017, so I assume the renegotiation will be 2015/16 after the next election.


These are mere details. Cameron's not big on details.

I suspect that the renegotiation will never even start and that Cameron will be long gone by 2017.

On the other hand, the speech did achieve it's aim in quelling the unrest on Tory backbenches. Well, for almost a week anyway.

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#174 Methven Hornet

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 04:36 PM

He's got to win an overall majority at the next election first so it's fairly well academic anyway.


Do you think? I've just got a feeling that Labour's opinion poll lead is nowhere near big enough at this stage of the parliament. And then there's all those UKIP protest votes that will come back if there's the slightest prospect of a Labour win.
"There are now more pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs."

#175 gingerjon

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 04:58 PM

Do you think? I've just got a feeling that Labour's opinion poll lead is nowhere near big enough at this stage of the parliament. And then there's all those UKIP protest votes that will come back if there's the slightest prospect of a Labour win.


Well, the proposed boundary changes have just been defeated in parliament so that'll make Labour's life easier.
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#176 Steve May

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 05:12 PM

Well, the proposed boundary changes have just been defeated in parliament so that'll make Labour's life easier.


And I'm sure you'll agree that this is a victory for common sense and those who actually understand how the maths of General Elections work.

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#177 Methven Hornet

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 05:28 PM

And I'm sure you'll agree that this is a victory for common sense and those who actually understand how the maths of General Elections work.


I'll agree that this is a victory for common decency and democracy. It is ridiculous that of all the things that are wrong with the Westminster system, the one element the Tories wanted to change was the thing that would benefit them.
"There are now more pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs."

#178 gingerjon

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 05:44 PM

And I'm sure you'll agree that this is a victory for common sense and those who actually understand how the maths of General Elections work.


Nope. I believe if we have to have first-past-the-post junk elections that all constituencies within that farrago should be of equal size.

However that this really annoys Cameron does give me a sense of enormous wellbeing.
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#179 Steve May

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 06:34 PM

However that this really annoys Cameron does give me a sense of enormous wellbeing.


Are you still in the Lib Dems or have you walked? Just curious.

Our local Lib Dems seem a fairly diminished bunch. It's been ages since we had the latest Lib Dem Focus (or as the last one called it - the Colne Valley Focus, they seem not to like the name Lib Dem anymore). I think they're a bit short of people on the ground.

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#180 gingerjon

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 07:48 PM

Are you still in the Lib Dems or have you walked? Just curious.


I let my membership lapse. The Lib Dem candidate at the last General Election stood for Labour as Police Commissioner candidate on a "I used to be a Lib Dem" ticket.

Keeping up his personal record he came second to a Conservative.
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