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An Interesting Approach to Dual Reg.....


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#261 hindle xiii

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:00 PM

I'm not entirely sure where this thread has ended up, and I don't know if it's been mentioned before and there is no thread elsewhere, but reading today's LE it seems Dewsbury have also dual-registered the entire Bulls squad. With the usual max 5 available at any one time.

Carry on.

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On Odsal Top baht 'at.


#262 Lounge Room Lizard

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:37 AM

Getting numbers through a turnstile is not that relevant especially if the tickets are freebies or dirt cheap like what Bradford and Huddersfield have done. The many thousands going to Odslum didnt stop the club having severe money problems or get the ground upgraded etc. For any Sorts team or business the main thing is you have more money coming in via various means than whats going out. Certain clubs get more money coming in than a team that has a higher home crowd. The Corporate business is a massive money maker that often seems to be forgotten. And if a person(s) are willing to throw a few hundred thousand in like Hudgell or Hughes etc then the reliance is not so much on how many speccies come or not.
All clubs whether in Sl or not should be looking to the future and not living now. Its this short term thinking that often has caused so many problems in the past. Poor management, living in dreamworld, poor forward planning that somes up RL. If clubs and the sport wants to grow things have to change. Sadly I cant see that happening and for me I worry about the future of the game at all levels. RL is not in the position that Union and Soccer are can rely on multi millionaires throwing cash around and living dangerously.

#263 The Parksider

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:40 AM

All clubs whether in Sl or not should be looking to the future and not living now. Its this short term thinking that often has caused so many problems in the past. Poor management, living in dreamworld, poor forward planning that somes up RL. If clubs and the sport wants to grow things have to change.


You have to live "now" and you have to live "In the short term" if your business doesn't generate enough surplus money/profit to grow the sport. It's only when you have thousands spare can you then build a new facility that gives you an income stream, or employ a couple of local development officers.

The clubs can't win. Back to the actual thread and there's an agreement between SL and CC clubs to combine junior development so that significant amount of money can be freed up to help the SL clubs profitability whilst the arrangement helps the CC clubs survival (I think the CC club gets the better deal on this simple basis).

But Oh no the decision is condemned by people. If you do something it's condemned if you do not do something it's condemned.

I don't think you should just sloganise.... "short term thinking" "living now" "poor management" "dreamworld" "poor forward thinking".

If Superleague is missing a trick then please set out where it's missing a trick and how??

#264 Ackroman

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 04:04 PM

If Superleague is missing a trick then please set out where it's missing a trick and how??


If a player is of CC standard they shouldn't be on an SL clubs books. If a player is DR'd then quite simply they have no place in an SL first team squad.

This is a huge PR blunder. How can you claim to have a high quality comp. if over half it's players could be running around in a cow field when they're not picked?

What does this actually say about playing standards in SL. From a PR point of view what message do we send out when a "whole" squad can be perceived to be of no better quality than their peers in the CC?

SL has created a situation where they are contracted to a whole raft of players considered not capable of hacking it in SL. However they then soften the blow by demoting everyone to their level?

So what's the strategy to elevate our stars in World Cup year? We give the impression they will be running around on an reclaimed coal pit on a bank holiday Easter Monday as part of their world cup preparation.

#265 Dave T

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 04:17 PM

If a player is of CC standard they shouldn't be on an SL clubs books. If a player is DR'd then quite simply they have no place in an SL first team squad.

This is a huge PR blunder. How can you claim to have a high quality comp. if over half it's players could be running around in a cow field when they're not picked?

What does this actually say about playing standards in SL. From a PR point of view what message do we send out when a "whole" squad can be perceived to be of no better quality than their peers in the CC?

SL has created a situation where they are contracted to a whole raft of players considered not capable of hacking it in SL. However they then soften the blow by demoting everyone to their level?

So what's the strategy to elevate our stars in World Cup year? We give the impression they will be running around on an reclaimed coal pit on a bank holiday Easter Monday as part of their world cup preparation.

This doesn't make sense.

These are 2nd strong youngsters who will be playing in a stronger comp than the Academy. If they aren;t good enough, they won;t get selected. SL clubs are not planning on having first team players running round in the Championships - this will be used for fringe squad players.

#266 The Parksider

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 04:27 PM

This doesn't make sense.

These are 2nd strong youngsters who will be playing in a stronger comp than the Academy. If they aren;t good enough, they won;t get selected. SL clubs are not planning on having first team players running round in the Championships - this will be used for fringe squad players.


Your right IMHO Dave but Ackers also has a point up to a point, playing standards ain't that great, but I don't think it's a PR issue.

Dual reg probably excites a few purists on here, but the mass of people through the turnstyles won't be bothered.

#267 Dave T

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 04:29 PM

Your right IMHO Dave but Ackers also has a point up to a point, playing standards ain't that great, but I don't think it's a PR issue.

Dual reg probably excites a few purists on here, but the mass of people through the turnstyles won't be bothered.

TBF I don't think it excites anyone - but a statement such as 'anyone who is CC standard shouldn;t be on SL books is nonsense'.

Most of the DR players will be young lads looking to make the step up.

#268 keighley

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 06:12 PM

This doesn't make sense.

These are 2nd strong youngsters who will be playing in a stronger comp than the Academy. If they aren;t good enough, they won;t get selected. SL clubs are not planning on having first team players running round in the Championships - this will be used for fringe squad players.


If SL club A registers it s whole roster so that they can play for CC club B and an injured superstar from the SL club needs a game to test his fitness and recovery, he will end up playing for the A team, sorry, I meant the CC club. The players turning out for the CC club from the SL club will be those the SL club wants to turn out, as and when it suits them, and the CC club will have no say in it if they want to retain the advantages they get from the link up.

#269 Dave T

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 07:34 PM

If SL club A registers it s whole roster so that they can play for CC club B and an injured superstar from the SL club needs a game to test his fitness and recovery, he will end up playing for the A team, sorry, I meant the CC club. The players turning out for the CC club from the SL club will be those the SL club wants to turn out, as and when it suits them, and the CC club will have no say in it if they want to retain the advantages they get from the link up.

So if Lee Briers is injured and Smith spoke to Swinton and offered him for a game to make his comeback - do you think Swinton would turn that down?

You are making things up - you have no idea what is in the deals signed up.

#270 Keith T

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 07:34 PM

I used to think you were a reasonable poster keighley but I now think that you don't read any other posts.

Which Championship club is going to add £500 to £1,500 per game to their salary cap total just to have a star SL playing for them. That is the scale of amounts to be added to the Championship clubs salary cap depending on what SL salary they are on. You really need to start researching the subject more.

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#271 Keith T

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 07:52 PM

Dual Registration Rules:

* Only SL players can be "Dual Registered" to a Championship club

* Only those clubs with a signed partnership agreement approved by the RFL, may dual-register players between themselves. Clubs who are not in an official partnership cannot dual register players. However, they may still loan players.

* There are no limits as to how many dual-registrations a club may register. However, in any game the Championship club is only allowed to have 5 dual-registered and/or loan players in any matchday 17.

To further protect the integrity of the Championships all dual-registered players receive a nominal salary cap classification which limits the use of high value players in the competition. Regardless of the actual cost to the club, the salary cap value of the Super League player will equate to an appearance fee which would count towards the Championship clubs salary cap.

* SL player salary £100k+ adds - £1,500 per game to Championship clubs salary cap
SL player salary £60k - £99,999 adds - £1,000 per game
SL player salary £40k - £59,999 adds - £750 per game
SL player salary £20k - £39,999 adds - £500
SL salary Under £20k adds - actual costs incurred.


Just to put a stop to all the "what ifs".

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#272 keighley

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 07:55 PM

So if Lee Briers is injured and Smith spoke to Swinton and offered him for a game to make his comeback - do you think Swinton would turn that down?

You are making things up - you have no idea what is in the deals signed up.


I never said they would turn it down but he is definitely not a fringe SL player. Why would Warrington not do that. If they didn't intend to do it why would the whole roster be signed up so that they can play for Swinton if it suited.

I am indeed speculating but why on earth would SL clubs want their entire roster signed on dual reg so that they can play for the feeder club if they did not intend to ever play any of the bigger stars at the CC club and coming back from injury would be the only conceivable instance when I think they would put a star into the CC team.

#273 Dave T

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:01 PM

I never said they would turn it down but he is definitely not a fringe SL player. Why would Warrington not do that. If they didn't intend to do it why would the whole roster be signed up so that they can play for Swinton if it suited.

I am indeed speculating but why on earth would SL clubs want their entire roster signed on dual reg so that they can play for the feeder club if they did not intend to ever play any of the bigger stars at the CC club and coming back from injury would be the only conceivable instance when I think they would put a star into the CC team.

BTW I'm not aware of Warrington doing this - last I heard we had registered a group of 5/6 players.

I suspect clubs have done it simply to keep it simple. Who knows what will happen, why not cover your bases?

I'm not sure what point you are making with your last sentence - you answer your own question. I still wouldn;t expect to see a top-level international first teamer turning out for the Championship club, but who knows. It's as though you are suggesting some hidden agenda, when it looks as simple as you state.

#274 Keith T

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:02 PM

I never said they would turn it down but he is definitely not a fringe SL player. Why would Warrington not do that. If they didn't intend to do it why would the whole roster be signed up so that they can play for Swinton if it suited.

I am indeed speculating but why on earth would SL clubs want their entire roster signed on dual reg so that they can play for the feeder club if they did not intend to ever play any of the bigger stars at the CC club and coming back from injury would be the only conceivable instance when I think they would put a star into the CC team.


Can I suggest two reasons. One is administration and the other a coaches attempt to "gee up" his squad by showing no-one is exempt from being dual registered.

If the Championship club has only 6 players registered to them and their own hooker say gets injured on the Thursday or Friday, if none of the six DR's is a hooker they have to rush through a registration for a hooker to be added to their players. Registering the whole squad saves time, etc, and it doesn't mean that every player will be used.

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#275 keighley

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:34 PM

I used to think you were a reasonable poster keighley but I now think that you don't read any other posts.

Which Championship club is going to add £500 to £1,500 per game to their salary cap total just to have a star SL playing for them. That is the scale of amounts to be added to the Championship clubs salary cap depending on what SL salary they are on. You really need to start researching the subject more.


To be fair to myself, I was typing my post and did post it whilst the other post was being put on here and was not aware of those financial rules when I posted.

However, those salary cap financial penalties notwithstanding, just what is the reason that SL clubs have dual registered their complete playing staff. What is in it for them by doing that. ? There is usually no smoke without fire.

#276 Keith T

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:39 PM

To be fair to myself, I was typing my post and did post it whilst the other post was being put on here and was not aware of those financial rules when I posted.

However, those salary cap financial penalties notwithstanding, just what is the reason that SL clubs have dual registered their complete playing staff. What is in it for them by doing that. ? There is usually no smoke without fire.


I refer the gentleman to the post above his. That is my take on it from information I have been given.

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#277 james cunny

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:10 PM

And it may well end fantastically for the totality of the game even SL.

Hetherington is the smart cookey (with apologies to Cookey :D ) he has trebled the RL fanbase in Leeds during my time in the game, and he has created a vibrant amateur scene in the city well in excess of what I could ever have dreamed of.

AND he has plans for more of the same.

Mr. Hetherington really is the only choice to lead RL into the future and his management of the game in Leeds should be extended to him managing it across the country.


The junior and amateure game in Leeds was thriving long before Hetherington arrived on the scene Hunslet junior clubs were producing the likes of Jason Robinson James Lowes and Kelvin Skerret long before Hetherington got involved at Leeds
Hunslet Hawks Champions 2010

#278 intheshed

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:11 PM

To further protect the integrity of the Championships all dual-registered players receive a nominal salary cap classification which limits the use of high value players in the competition. Regardless of the actual cost to the club, the salary cap value of the Super League player will equate to an appearance fee which would count towards the Championship clubs salary cap.

* SL player salary £100k+ adds - £1,500 per game to Championship clubs salary cap
SL player salary £60k - £99,999 adds - £1,000 per game
SL player salary £40k - £59,999 adds - £750 per game
SL player salary £20k - £39,999 adds - £500
SL salary Under £20k adds - actual costs incurred.


Just to put a stop to all the "what ifs".


Useful and interesting information and certainly more than I have been able to find out,thanks. At present champs clubs have to comply both with a finite cap £300k/£150k and with a cap at 40% of turnover, do you know if the 40% cap is being retained and if so will twinned clubs be required to get their DR players nominal values under the 40% cap or just the finite cap?

#279 Keith T

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:25 PM

Useful and interesting information and certainly more than I have been able to find out,thanks. At present champs clubs have to comply both with a finite cap £300k/£150k and with a cap at 40% of turnover, do you know if the 40% cap is being retained and if so will twinned clubs be required to get their DR players nominal values under the 40% cap or just the finite cap?


I don't think there is any change to what was in place last season on that score. The information I posted is available at the bottom of page 19 of this weeks RL Express and although it explains the salary cap rules for SL there is no mention of Championship salary cap changes.

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#280 shun

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:35 PM

I'm happy to discuss the Local Government Act 1972 - and the eight or so subsequent Local Government Acts - with you on a separate thread if you wish.

The thread is on, The any other business/sports thread




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