313 replies to this topic

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

So is there anything to stop Widnes allowing Workington 5 of their top players if say Workington had a key game in the bid to avoid relegation and Widnes had a weekend free? If not, surely this is just the modern equivalent of having ringers in your side.

Yes just imagine the excitement of a potential St Helens reserves v Widnes reserves clash to avoid relegation from the Championship/clinch the last play off spot

Edited by Les Tonks Sidestep, 25 January 2013 - 12:40 PM.

[roughyedspud]

Wouldn't picking a different 5 players each week just cause disruption?

The chance to train with team mates and know the game plan is essential, this could be a good idea and Workington may well pick the same 3 or 4 regardless of who else is available.

bingo...

if a SL club said "heres 5 players for the season...crack on" workington could work with that...

but getting different players dependent on whether these players are playing for widnes that week will cause mayhem at workington....


good luck to them

[dkw]

Thats my worry about it spud, I would much prefer we got the use of 4 or 5 young players for 3 month periods than have different ones every week. Now this could be what actually happens seeing as though Town seemingly have the say over who they use. They could pick 5 players unlikely to be first team very often and use them each week.

[roughyedspud]

or more likely it'll be widnes saying "play these 3 cos they need game time,play this one cos he's coming back from injury and give this one half a hour to see how he goes............."

[Michael Bates]

or more likely it'll be widnes saying "play these 3 cos they need game time,play this one cos he's coming back from injury and give this one half a hour to see how he goes............."

I agree, the whole "championship coach has final say" argument is very naive in my opinion!

[oldrover]

it's a feeder system, pure and simple.some of us said it was the thin end of the wedge when it was brought in.

[Griff]

it's a feeder system .....

What do you understand by the term "feeder system" ?

Just asking .....

[dkw]

I`m not that naive that I think Widnes are anything other than the senior in this but surely it has to be mutually beneficial. And to be fair to Widnes they are saying all the tight things so far. We can only wait and see just what happens.

[keighley]

I'm here. They can still only play up to 5 at a time. They still need their own squad of Workington players.

And the Workington players are going to feel like 2nd class citizens in their own country. They are only to be picked if no Widnes players are available. The team spirit and morale at Workington will plummett in my opinion. Workngton might move up the league because of these Widnes imports but it's an eratz sort of success.

[Blackpool Hawk]

A step too far i think by Workington

[shaun mc]

Don't like the sound of this myself. I don't want to my team finish higher than their core squad would suggest because they have the use of fringe Widnes first team squad players - its empty success. Neither do I want to see my team being relegated because all other teams are in bed with SL teams and have that advantage of fringe first teamers (I'm not calling it dual reg anymore, as its moved on from that) and can pick and choose those 'available' to suit a particular game or opposition.
How about picking a certain 'aggresive' player wind him up a bit to take the opposition playmaker out in a particular important game. He does so, the team wins but he is cited and cops a 3 match suspension but the Championship team still have a pool of players they can call upon, and it does not affect them in any way.
I don't want my teams results determined by the third of the team who are from elsewhere.

A far better system for me is that 5 players are registered in 2 or 3 monthly blocks, of which a max of 3 can be played in the 17 at anyone time. The SL clubs agrees not to recall those 5 players in that 3 month block. After 2/3 months the 5 players are assessed by both clubs and announced and re-arranged very quickly to go into the next 2/3 month block.

Edited by shaun mc, 25 January 2013 - 01:38 PM.

[keighley]

So is there anything to stop Widnes allowing Workington 5 of their top players if say Workington had a key game in the bid to avoid relegation and Widnes had a weekend free? If not, surely this is just the modern equivalent of having ringers in your side.

Spot on. It's making a farce of the independence of C teams. How could you sleep at night knowing you were only in the league or only the champions because of some other teams players. It's also a slap in the face of all the clubs ploughing their own furough. If Featherstone or Halifax fail to gain the grand final because they were beaten by Widnes first team players at Workington or any other team doing the same, say Hunslet playing half the SL champions squad on a vacant weekend for the Rhinos, this could deprive the losing team of the necessary criterium of winning a trophy to tick their SL application box.

This cannot be right. Justice must not only be done it must be seen to be done.

[Ackroman]

Workington could save a fortune by ditching the coaching staff and letting Widnes pick the side every week.

[intheshed]

Its regrettable but entirely predictable, its the only way the twinning system can work for the SL club. Take Widnes as a convenient example but it could be most clubs, they have a 30 man 1st squad most of whom are too old to play u19s, 17 play 1st team the rest literally have nowhere to play. Simply put, it was obvious from the outset that 5 players spending a whole season at a twin club couldn't work. What should be of real and pressing concern is the other apparently obvious and logical conclusion that it can only work for the SL club if they have some way of ensuring that all their players get game time. Of course no one is going to say it publicly but if the SL clubs don't believe they have some control over which of their players play and when then they are incredibly relaxed about the prospect of paying players who are at real risk of literally not playing a single game all season.

There are some clear risks to the integrity of the competition here that, in the absence of published rules, remain unanswered.

If the dual players are made available after the Widnes 18 is chosen what happens for Thursday/Friday games? As an example Workington play Keighley on Thurs 30 May but Widnes play Catalans on the following Sunday. Widnes won't even have named their 20 man squad when Workington play their game, presumably we just have to swallow weakened teams for tv fixtures?

Still no word on how the salary cap will work.

No indication of how the season end will work, any protection against artificially strong teams as a one off for important such games play off qualification or relegation avoidance? What will be the qualification criteria for playing in play off games? Too high a threshold and its likely that a team will loose all its duals for the play offs, too low and we run the risk artificially strong strong teams just for the play offs or GF.

[Gav Wilson]

Spot on. It's making a farce of the independence of C teams. How could you sleep at night knowing you were only in the league or only the champions because of some other teams players.

Dunno, ask Widnes. They got into SuperLeague using other team's players.

[Michael Bates]

Spot on. It's making a farce of the independence of C teams. How could you sleep at night knowing you were only in the league or only the champions because of some other teams players. It's also a slap in the face of all the clubs ploughing their own furough. If Featherstone or Halifax fail to gain the grand final because they were beaten by Widnes first team players at Workington or any other team doing the same, say Hunslet playing half the SL champions squad on a vacant weekend for the Rhinos, this could deprive the losing team of the necessary criterium of winning a trophy to tick their SL application box.

This cannot be right. Justice must not only be done it must be seen to be done.

Finally! Someone that gets it!

[Gav Wilson]

say Hunslet playing half the SL champions squad on a vacant weekend for the Rhinos.

Won't happen. They can only pick a maximum of 5 players.

[The Parksider]

Surely this wasn't the intention?

They don't tell you the intention in press releases.

What is was referred to was a sort of two independent clubs helping each other out it's a win win thing.

But Hunslet have already broken ranks through Eaton seeing Leeds & Hunslet combining as some sort of joint player development system. No suprise there when Hull/HKR had a joint system on the table.

Bet Eaton got a shock when Brad Singleton went to Wakefield!!

This will become whatever the clubs want it to be.

[shaun mc]

Its regrettable but entirely predictable, its the only way the twinning system can work for the SL club. Take Widnes as a convenient example but it could be most clubs, they have a 30 man 1st squad most of whom are too old to play u19s, 17 play 1st team the rest literally have nowhere to play. Simply put, it was obvious from the outset that 5 players spending a whole season at a twin club couldn't work. What should be of real and pressing concern is the other apparently obvious and logical conclusion that it can only work for the SL club if they have some way of ensuring that all their players get game time. Of course no one is going to say it publicly but if the SL clubs don't believe they have some control over which of their players play and when then they are incredibly relaxed about the prospect of paying players who are at real risk of literally not playing a single game all season.

There are some clear risks to the integrity of the competition here that, in the absence of published rules, remain unanswered.

If the dual players are made available after the Widnes 18 is chosen what happens for Thursday/Friday games? As an example Workington play Keighley on Thurs 30 May but Widnes play Catalans on the following Sunday. Widnes won't even have named their 20 man squad when Workington play their game, presumably we just have to swallow weakened teams for tv fixtures?

Still no word on how the salary cap will work.

No indication of how the season end will work, any protection against artificially strong teams as a one off for important such games play off qualification or relegation avoidance? What will be the qualification criteria for playing in play off games? Too high a threshold and its likely that a team will loose all its duals for the play offs, too low and we run the risk artificially strong strong teams just for the play offs or GF.

For me, the integrity of the CC comp is being undermined and its not too difficult to find reasons why as the above poster has illuminated us with.
Its time there was some direction, transparency and agreement on this.
There are enough holes being brought to light already.
I'm not going to have a 3 hour round trip to watch my team that is full of Widnes fringe players one week and then get tonked the next as they don't fancy the away trip, or Widnes pull them back.

[The Parksider]

For me, the integrity of the CC comp is being undermined ..........

What do you mean integrity??