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An Interesting Approach to Dual Reg.....


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#41 bar red

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 02:11 PM

If i was a Widnes player I`d seriously consider having a dip in form if it meant i didn`t have to travel to Wuckintown every other week.

#42 shaun mc

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 02:12 PM

The integrity of the salary cap for one......

#43 Blackpool Hawk

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 02:13 PM

Spot on. It's making a farce of the independence of C teams. How could you sleep at night knowing you were only in the league or only the champions because of some other teams players. It's also a slap in the face of all the clubs ploughing their own furough. If Featherstone or Halifax fail to gain the grand final because they were beaten by Widnes first team players at Workington or any other team doing the same, say Hunslet playing half the SL champions squad on a vacant weekend for the Rhinos, this could deprive the losing team of the necessary criterium of winning a trophy to tick their SL application box.

This cannot be right. Justice must not only be done it must be seen to be done.


I dont know if you have seen but Hunslet have only got 4 Leeds Rhinos on dual reg

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#44 Blackpool Hawk

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 02:16 PM

They don't tell you the intention in press releases.

What is was referred to was a sort of two independent clubs helping each other out it's a win win thing.

But Hunslet have already broken ranks through Eaton seeing Leeds & Hunslet combining as some sort of joint player development system. No suprise there when Hull/HKR had a joint system on the table.

Bet Eaton got a shock when Brad Singleton went to Wakefield!!

This will become whatever the clubs want it to be.


You reckon? Brad Singleton was never coming to Hunslet, hes on far too much money for him to be loaned out (dual reg) for FREE, he was always going to a Super League club who could cover his annual wage.

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#45 keighley

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 02:16 PM

Won't happen. They can only pick a maximum of 5 players.


At the moment. Thin edge, wedge etc.

#46 Blackpool Hawk

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 02:19 PM

For me, the integrity of the CC comp is being undermined ..........


The integrity of the comp was undermined as soon as automatic promotion to Super league was taken away, that is what has caused the situation Championship clubs like Hunslet, York and Workington etc to take up these partnerships!1999 virtually killed our club and the snowball affect of the last 13 years has led us to this place in time. All we are doing is trying to survive and compete.

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#47 keighley

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 02:21 PM

I dont know if you have seen but Hunslet have only got 4 Leeds Rhinos on dual reg


Fair comment but I can see the numbers being changed and also the age groups of the on loan players being abandoned as well. I hope I am wrong

#48 Blackpool Hawk

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 02:25 PM

Fair comment but I can see the numbers being changed and also the age groups of the on loan players being abandoned as well. I hope I am wrong


But that's all if and maybes, i dont agree with an entire squad been dual reg to another club, and our supporters would never accept it, we have had all on convincing them that 4 quality youngsters from Leeds will be beneficial.

But they are the rules set by the RFL, dont blame clubs for exploiting them, its the RFL who should be feeling the backlash not the clubs who are working within the rules set by the RFL to benefit their own clubs.

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#49 shaun mc

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 02:45 PM

But that's all if and maybes, i dont agree with an entire squad been dual reg to another club, and our supporters would never accept it, we have had all on convincing them that 4 quality youngsters from Leeds will be beneficial.

But they are the rules set by the RFL, dont blame clubs for exploiting them, its the RFL who should be feeling the backlash not the clubs who are working within the rules set by the RFL to benefit their own clubs.


"clubs who are working within the rules set by the RFL"
Can you please point me to a link or press release around the rules and guidelines for the coming season with respect to the Championship salary cap and Challenge Cup eligibility (as that issue is just around the corner).

#50 The Parksider

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 02:50 PM

You reckon? Brad Singleton was never coming to Hunslet, hes on far too much money for him to be loaned out (dual reg) for FREE, he was always going to a Super League club who could cover his annual wage.


No your right. The sad thing is BH that a Leeds reserve the club doesn't need is eagerly snapped up by Wakefield who really should be producing their own players. Sadly for such a big city with such an RL heritage and no direct opposition from Soccer there's only a couple of Wakefield born lads in SL.

I've just seen the plans for the Hunslet/Leeds tie up and yes only four players are named as going to the 'uns this season. The extent of the development work between the clubs though doesn't stop at four season long loans.

"Between the Rhinos and Hunslet, there are currently 35 hours of coaching delivered each week in schools with the new structure hoped to raise that to 150 hours per week. The key targets are to have:
• 100 new schools offering Rugby League
• 100 new fully qualified level 2 coaches
• 1,000 new players in primary schools
• 2 new amateur clubs in the city
• 1,000 new fans
• A new heritage facility at Headingley Carnegie Stadium"


Whilst we may run with a squad of 20 "Hunslet lads" with "only four Leeds lads" the plans above (which are highly impressive indeed) you tell me that in 10 years time we won't be running with all Leeds lads.

I'm not trying to catch you out and I do continue to praise you to high heaven for your work at the club, but this is the end to independence. I don't mind that and I won't even mind when Hetherington opens up his Hunslet and Bramley sections in the City of Leeds RL heritage centre under the Carnegie stand. I may donate an item or two :D

#51 Keith T

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 02:51 PM

When this system was announced after the link up between Leeds and Hunslet, I stated that I was not happy with the idea and that there needed to be some hard and fast rules to regulate it. Since then almost every other link up has had differing benefits for the "junior" partner with such as Batley getting free medical services from the Giants, others using SL club facilities and services on a regular basis, etc, etc.

Having said that I now cannot believe some of the claptrap that is being spouted by some posters. Last season Championship and Championship 1 clubs were allowed to recruit 4 dual registered players as well as take "loanee" players from SL clubs. Doncaster won the Championship 1 title with I believe 3 or 4 dual reg players and many other clubs had 4 dual reg players in their 17 most weeks. Barrow reached the Championship 1 final with 3 or 4 dual registered players!! Did Fev not have some dual reg players? What about Halifax? Leigh?

As it has been said Town can only play 5 players at any one time and I don't believe for one minute that they will either do that or even want to do that each week. We have a good squad of young players with a sprinkling of good experienced players (Jamie Thackray, Ewan Dowes, Peter Lupton, Mark Calderwood) and I'm sure that our coaches will want to play our own lads as much as possible.

We have 23 players signed on but because several had operations during December and are still recuperating, plus we have had 3 players carrying over suspensions from last season, we haven't been able to play a friendly pre-season game. We had a run out at Widnes when we had to include two triallists and play our conditioner on the wing, and I can see that for our first few matches we may require upwards of 3 or 4 players from Widnes.

Our coaches will have identified the positions where we will be weakest and will no doubt look to Widnes for players to cover but I don't see how it is any different to what many clubs did last season, when dual reg players trained with their own SL clubs and came to the Championship club for one session before the weekends match.

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#52 The Parksider

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 02:53 PM

The integrity of the salary cap for one......


This being a salary cap that doesn't allow any club to build a Superleague side before getting promotion?

#53 The Parksider

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 02:55 PM

The integrity of the comp was undermined as soon as automatic promotion to Super league was taken away.


That's the answer I was looking for. The changes imposed by the rich over the impoverished is kind of a "now you have nothing to do and nowhere to go why not make yourself useful"........

#54 keighley

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 02:56 PM

But that's all if and maybes, i dont agree with an entire squad been dual reg to another club, and our supporters would never accept it, we have had all on convincing them that 4 quality youngsters from Leeds will be beneficial.

But they are the rules set by the RFL, dont blame clubs for exploiting them, its the RFL who should be feeling the backlash not the clubs who are working within the rules set by the RFL to benefit their own clubs.


I do blame the RFL and the SL clubs, not the CC clubs.

I understand the SL club's need to cut costs. I understand their desire to keep some fringe members of their junior set up involved in the game. Any arrangement like this should be for a seasons long loan so everybody in the CC knows what they are up against. There should be no chopping and changing on a weekly basis and the 4 tom 5 loanee players should be known before the season starts. To register the whole playing staff of a SL club and then mix and change the loanees on a weekly basis will lead to abuses such as posters have speculated on on this thread.

Foe me it is against the spirit of the original intention to save costs and keep some marginal SL juniors in the game instead of cutting them loose.

It will dilute the value of the championships. Who wants to follow a team winning things with their players owing allegiance to another organisation. It wiould be a hollow victory and will damage the worth of the division.

#55 The Parksider

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 02:58 PM

When this system was announced after the link up between Leeds and Hunslet, I stated that I was not happy with the idea and that there needed to be some hard and fast rules to regulate it.


Why?

To hold back the tide of dependance?

If you want that the best thing to do is not to get tied up in the first place isn't it.

Fev. Leigh, Sheffield and Halifax have had the integrity to refuse to get involved.

#56 keighley

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 03:00 PM

That's the answer I was looking for. The changes imposed by the rich over the impoverished is kind of a "now you have nothing to do and nowhere to go why not make yourself useful"........


Don't you think that's sad and depressing.? I do.

#57 The Parksider

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 03:02 PM

It will dilute the value of the championships and will damage the worth of the division.


So the closed shop created in 2006 and the low salary cap placed on CC didn't damage it's value and worth?

If you think this is the start of something, then consider it actually may be part of an end game.

#58 Keith T

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 03:02 PM

To register the whole playing staff of a SL club and then mix and change the loanees on a weekly basis will lead to abuses such as posters have speculated on on this thread.


There we go again. Where does it state that Town will be using 4 or 5 different Widnes players every week?

It doesn't. What it says is that any of the Widnes players will be available for Town if they are not in the first team squad for that week. I'm sure that will be the same for any of the SL players in any of the link ups.

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#59 Blackpool Hawk

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 03:03 PM

"clubs who are working within the rules set by the RFL"
Can you please point me to a link or press release around the rules and guidelines for the coming season with respect to the Championship salary cap and Challenge Cup eligibility (as that issue is just around the corner).


Its not up to me to point you to the rules of the RFL, My club is well within the rules of the dual reg agreement, that's

No your right. The sad thing is BH that a Leeds reserve the club doesn't need is eagerly snapped up by Wakefield who really should be producing their own players. Sadly for such a big city with such an RL heritage and no direct opposition from Soccer there's only a couple of Wakefield born lads in SL.

I've just seen the plans for the Hunslet/Leeds tie up and yes only four players are named as going to the 'uns this season. The extent of the development work between the clubs though doesn't stop at four season long loans.

"Between the Rhinos and Hunslet, there are currently 35 hours of coaching delivered each week in schools with the new structure hoped to raise that to 150 hours per week. The key targets are to have:
• 100 new schools offering Rugby League
• 100 new fully qualified level 2 coaches
• 1,000 new players in primary schools
• 2 new amateur clubs in the city
• 1,000 new fans
• A new heritage facility at Headingley Carnegie Stadium"


Whilst we may run with a squad of 20 "Hunslet lads" with "only four Leeds lads" the plans above (which are highly impressive indeed) you tell me that in 10 years time we won't be running with all Leeds lads.

I'm not trying to catch you out and I do continue to praise you to high heaven for your work at the club, but this is the end to independence. I don't mind that and I won't even mind when Hetherington opens up his Hunslet and Bramley sections in the City of Leeds RL heritage centre under the Carnegie stand. I may donate an item or two :D

No your right. The sad thing is BH that a Leeds reserve the club doesn't need is eagerly snapped up by Wakefield who really should be producing their own players. Sadly for such a big city with such an RL heritage and no direct opposition from Soccer there's only a couple of Wakefield born lads in SL.

I've just seen the plans for the Hunslet/Leeds tie up and yes only four players are named as going to the 'uns this season. The extent of the development work between the clubs though doesn't stop at four season long loans.

"Between the Rhinos and Hunslet, there are currently 35 hours of coaching delivered each week in schools with the new structure hoped to raise that to 150 hours per week. The key targets are to have:
• 100 new schools offering Rugby League
• 100 new fully qualified level 2 coaches
• 1,000 new players in primary schools
• 2 new amateur clubs in the city
• 1,000 new fans
• A new heritage facility at Headingley Carnegie Stadium"


Whilst we may run with a squad of 20 "Hunslet lads" with "only four Leeds lads" the plans above (which are highly impressive indeed) you tell me that in 10 years time we won't be running with all Leeds lads.

I'm not trying to catch you out and I do continue to praise you to high heaven for your work at the club, but this is the end to independence. I don't mind that and I won't even mind when Hetherington opens up his Hunslet and Bramley sections in the City of Leeds RL heritage centre under the Carnegie stand. I may donate an item or two :D



Who knows what the future holds, the only thing il say in the partnership we have built with Leeds and continue to do so is that its not ALL about players joining on dual reg agreements.There is a clear strategy earmarked by both clubs to help improve the game of rugby league at all levels within the city of Leeds. We have plans in place with Leeds which you have outlined above which are ground breaking and is something Hunslet RLFC are proud to be involved in, it can only be beneficial for our club to be involved in such a great scheme and the benefits of it will not only benefit us as a club and Leeds, but will encourage more and more people in Leeds to play this great sport and create player pathways.

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"Nihil sine Deo" "We've Swept The Seas Before Boys, & So We Shall Again" "More than a club"


#60 keighley

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 03:03 PM

Why?

To hold back the tide of dependance?

If you want that the best thing to do is not to get tied up in the first place isn't it.

Fev. Leigh, Sheffield and Halifax have had the integrity to refuse to get involved.


And Keighley even though it might cost us our CC place with the main contenders for the relegation spots having signed on the A team list.




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