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Lazenby Cup clash kicks off new dawn for Rugby League in Leeds

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#21 keighley

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 03:40 PM

Why isn't it?


It's not a good thing that an independent CC club in their own town is less likely to survive than a virtual A team of Leeds totally dependent on them for their existence and further progess or not depending on what Leeds want.

Maybe thats the goal of all this, to make all Cc clubs either become adjuncts of a SL club and virtually cease to exist as self determining entities and kill off all clubs who don't wish to conform to this vision of the future for all but a few SL clubs. Let's make them all reliant on SL clubs and so kill off any possible competition that might be out there however small the threat might be.

If you think that a good thing then you are certainly entitled to your opinion but I don't share that view.

#22 deluded pom?

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 04:02 PM

a tremendously vibrant amateur game maybe the best in the northern bl00dy hemisphere...



Excuse my ignorance Parky, I've just tried and failed to get a list of the current amateur RL teams in Leeds. Is this really the halcyon era for amateur RL in Leeds? Do you really believe that the amateur RL scene in Leeds is the best in the NH? If so can you put some flesh on the bones for me please?

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#23 southstand loiner

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 04:26 PM

Excuse my ignorance Parky, I've just tried and failed to get a list of the current amateur RL teams in Leeds. Is this really the halcyon era for amateur RL in Leeds? Do you really believe that the amateur RL scene in Leeds is the best in the NH? If so can you put some flesh on the bones for me please?


do you want open age or junior teams lists ?
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#24 keighley

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 04:52 PM

do you want open age or junior teams lists ?


And is any growth due to the move to summer, the sport England cash and development, BARLA, the expansion of conference teams or is it due to Leeds opening their wallet to assist amateur rugby ?

#25 The Parksider

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 08:56 AM

Excuse my ignorance Parky, I've just tried and failed to get a list of the current amateur RL teams in Leeds. Is this really the halcyon era for amateur RL in Leeds? Do you really believe that the amateur RL scene in Leeds is the best in the NH? If so can you put some flesh on the bones for me please?


Your not ignorant, and it's a pleasure to indulge you.

I can't remember the first amateur match I went to (it was probably Bradford University where I played when they were short, clubs had to be short to play me seriously) but we had Milford, Stanningley, Bisons and Middleton on Saturdays and on sundays we had a 20 team sunday league that was 11 a side due to player shortage. The latter actually died out pretty quickly. Stanningley played on a park and changed in a pub cellar. I was a young ref then and ran the line against Oulton. You had to run behind the crowd at times.

BARLA assisted a growth not just in the spread of clubs, but in the facilities at clubs over the years. In the modern SL area with Leeds doing so well things have really accelerated. Stanningley today is no longer a pub team, it's a club more valuable to Rugby League than maybe several CC2 clubs. They produce professionals and draw crowds to big games. Even down Hunslet a visit to the Warriors is quite remarkable compared to my first Hunslet amateur visit when I reffed Parkside.v.St. John Fisher and was told I was the worst referee they had had (late penalty for "persistent" offside lost Parkside the game).

I'm not going to do definitive lists. I think the perpetrator of this point can go do his own, but there's a lot of well organised junior RL in age ranges e.g. Milford, Rodley, Easts, Leapords, Queens, Pigeons, Warriors, Stanningley, Wests, Wortley, etc. most in great facilities and well coached. The senior clubs have A teams at times and there's Easts, Milford, Queens, Stanningley, Warriors as the big guns who deliver players like Ablett,Walker, JJB, McGuire, Mathers and I won't go on but suffice to say the city has delivered 22 top professionals to Superleague. That beats hull, that comes only second to Wigan.

It doesn't stop there. Leeds Rhinos are getting schools playing RL who played RU before. Temple Moor was where two of my mates went. They went all the way in a schools championship. In the student arena where I played the Uni, the met and the Trinity colleges run a couple of teams each I think. Leeds Met are the top club who play in the Challenge cup against professionals and hold their own. They get on telly. I find that breathtaking. Up where I am we have the fabulous Akkies with several sides inc a top womens side overshadowing their RU counterparts. There's a big brass statue of Pottsy in the car park. L'Angela Mysterio is head of their supporters club :lol:

Amid all this Hetherington has stated two more amateur clubs are being lined up in his plan for RL in the city. I won't reproduce that again but show me another SL club with grass roots plans like that. I'm not saying Hetherington created all this but he works hard to directly encourage and facilitate it with many initiatives. The Broughtons were inspired to play and turn pro and their picture is up in the local school. The RL desert that was once north Leeds produces pro's.

But according to some it's Hunslet and Bramley that are the "grass roots". If they are forced into oblivion apparently the game will go on to die. I find that breathtakingly ridiculous when I can wander around Leeds on a Weekend and see the grass roots game (miniscule compared with soccer still) so much bigger and so much more vibrant often at the expense of a shrinking RU.

Few years ago we took the kids to Hetheringtons kids day ay Headingley and had a great time. My lad has signed pictures of himself with top stars on his wall JJB, Danny Mac, Ryan Bailey, Ryan Hall, Jamie P etc. All Leeds Internationals and big names. The kids love it. The kids are inspired by it and superleague. At the seasons end with friends we all keep the kids back at the last match and all the players go round the ground and say hello and sign autographs for the kids.

I dont care what happened in terms of fans 40,50,60 years ago. The real point is when hetherington can get an average crowd of as many as nearly 17,000 in 2009 all coming from all parts of Leeds that generates a profit as does the magnificent facilites. Profits enable growth and Hetherington delivers it.

What earthly profits do small championship clubs deliver? How much did Bramley and Hunslet used to generate??

You may think this is odd - someone who's a Hunslet fan not blindly "supporting" his side and his other once favourite club. I followed them as well as most fans up to the modern era, but today I follow RL and want what's best for the game. I'm ultra nostalgic and will physically help preserve the memory of Bramley and Hunslet, but it's the success of the Leeds model I want to see replicated.

We need more big clubs on big crowds making real profits (rather than the ugly struggles of some so called "Super" clubs) they can plough back into the grass roots game in their region and grow and sustain it like it's happening in Leeds. If CC clubs are casualties then you can't have everything. But the fact is the kids don't want flat cap Rugby league, that's for old men like me, and too many old men like me are selfishly calling for a return to or at least a preservation of the past.

Edited by The Parksider, 27 January 2013 - 09:04 AM.


#26 deluded pom?

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 09:53 AM

Thanks for the response Parky, much appreciated.

Amid all this Hetherington has stated two more amateur clubs are being lined up in his plan for RL in the city.



In my eyes this is what ALL Super League clubs and those aspiring to be Super League clubs should be doing. Just as long as the clubs created are not treated any differently to the already existing amateur clubs in the area outside of the initial push to get the amateur teams up and running. Then we need to see the "parent" SL club aiding all the amateur clubs in their area whenever they can, finances and time allowing.

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#27 Blackpool Hawk

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 10:47 AM

Now that the precedent has been set by others I think Leeds will probably jump on that bandwagon. It looks like the other SL clubs have one upped them for once.


Will never happen unless Hunslet allow it, people forget its Hunslet who are the master in this arrangment ( if theres such a thing) Leeds need somewhere to play there fringe players, they approached us to allow them to do so and we agreed, so we have come to there aid, it's us who in the first instance are benefiting the Leeds club, by allowing their players to play at Hunslet saving them 100k a year on a under 23s team! Everything else that comes with this arangment is an added bonus and benefits probably us more than Leeds, and lets not forget nothing has been signed, no tomeframe set, both clubs are just going to monitor the situation! The publicity we have had this week has been Unbeleiveble, something as little as Leeds retweeting us to 60k people is massive for us and can't be underestimated, we have had a number of Leeds Rhinos season ticket holders purhasing season tickets at Hunslet, the partnership has been superb for us so far, long may it continue!

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#28 The Parksider

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 10:55 AM

Thanks for the response Parky, much appreciated.

In my eyes this is what ALL Super League clubs and those aspiring to be Super League clubs should be doing. Just as long as the clubs created are not treated any differently to the already existing amateur clubs in the area outside of the initial push to get the amateur teams up and running. Then we need to see the "parent" SL club aiding all the amateur clubs in their area whenever they can, finances and time allowing.


This depends on your definition of “Super League clubs”. There are 14 places for such clubs but clearly there are only a handful of true Super league clubs.

One thing about being competitive and profitable is you can reach out beyond your town and attract the fan level and the playing resources to be a true Superleague club. Nowhere is this more plain to see than in “Lancashire” where Saints, Wire and Wigan attract an average crowd of 13,500 each and whose scouts trawl the amateur clubs from south wales to north Cumbria to find the best players.

These are true Superleague clubs as is Leeds and these clubs mop up all the trophies. Les Catalans come close, and this vindicates and gives tremendous logic to the inclusion of a French side in 2006 when Widnes, Leigh and Cas all ended up making way. Notably Les Catalans achievements outstrip the achievements of those three clubs and it is no accident. Catalans can attract the fans and players.

Elsewhere they’re battling each other for the same fans and players and dragging each other down. If the Leeds model was applied around the Calder, Hull and Pennine areas of Yorkshire we could have three more true Superleague clubs to add to the five we have.

And there’s the problem. We only really have the resources for eight Superleague clubs and that’s why the RFL have persevere so hard to create clubs in London, Wales, Gateshead and now Toulouse are the next expansion hopefuls.

Bottom line is big profitable clubs with adequate resources can grow, and grow the game itself and create more resources.

#29 The Parksider

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:10 AM

Will never happen unless Hunslet allow it, people forget its Hunslet who are the master in this arrangment ( if theres such a thing) Leeds need somewhere to play there fringe players, they approached us to allow them to do so and we agreed, so we have come to there aid, it's us who in the first instance are benefiting the Leeds club, by allowing their players to play at Hunslet saving them 100k a year on a under 23s team! Everything else that comes with this arangment is an added bonus and benefits probably us more than Leeds, and lets not forget nothing has been signed, no tomeframe set, both clubs are just going to monitor the situation! The publicity we have had this week has been Unbeleiveble, something as little as Leeds retweeting us to 60k people is massive for us and can't be underestimated, we have had a number of Leeds Rhinos season ticket holders purhasing season tickets at Hunslet, the partnership has been superb for us so far, long may it continue!


Nice on BH.

The Superleague clubs can have nothing to do with their local CC clubs and effectively allow them to struggle and die, or they can appreciate that their neighbours are part of the fabric of the game and partner them to help both themselves, their partner and the game. It's win win.

Of course the counter is that the SL club will retain it's status through this arrangement and condemn the CC club to never being able to become an SL club themselves. I have long argued so many CC clubs can never be SL clubs and when you look at SL several of them don't look like Superleague clubs themselves. Cas's failure at Featherstone last year was hailed as proof that Fev could be a Superleague club. I rather feel the reverse was the truth.

As for Hunslet when push came to shove only 150 of us were left to look at whether to continue or pack in. Even in the wake of the decision to fight on and the 2010 Championship winning year we are left with perhaps only 300 fans and no real junior infrastructure capable of producing a single professional. How that could ever create the possibility we may one day become an SL clubs is not just beyond reason, but beyond fantasy.

I hope today goes great and I'd appreciate it if the crowd figure is not published, you letting us know what it is. Lets see how many vote for this with their feet......

#30 Blackpool Hawk

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 12:05 PM

Nice on BH.

The Superleague clubs can have nothing to do with their local CC clubs and effectively allow them to struggle and die, or they can appreciate that their neighbours are part of the fabric of the game and partner them to help both themselves, their partner and the game. It's win win.

Of course the counter is that the SL club will retain it's status through this arrangement and condemn the CC club to never being able to become an SL club themselves. I have long argued so many CC clubs can never be SL clubs and when you look at SL several of them don't look like Superleague clubs themselves. Cas's failure at Featherstone last year was hailed as proof that Fev could be a Superleague club. I rather feel the reverse was the truth.

As for Hunslet when push came to shove only 150 of us were left to look at whether to continue or pack in. Even in the wake of the decision to fight on and the 2010 Championship winning year we are left with perhaps only 300 fans and no real junior infrastructure capable of producing a single professional. How that could ever create the possibility we may one day become an SL clubs is not just beyond reason, but beyond fantasy.

I hope today goes great and I'd appreciate it if the crowd figure is not published, you letting us know what it is. Lets see how many vote for this with their feet......


Anything less than 1000 will be dissapointing, it's a shame LUFC are at home at the same time (just our luck) but at least the weather has changed for the better, should be a great game! So we shall again

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#31 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 07:49 PM

Will Leeds be offering their knowhow to develop Hunslets stadium to be SL standard?

#32 southstand loiner

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 07:51 PM

lets not forget as well that university rugby league started in leeds when the university team joined the leeds sunday league back in 1968 .

without that first university team i wonder wether the likes of gloucester or oxford would now be even a pipe dream for championship rugby league .

by the way i hear dave hadfield is bringing out a book about universrity rugby league this spring
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#33 terrywebbisgod

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 08:04 PM

Will Leeds be offering their knowhow to develop Hunslets stadium to be SL standard?

Why,it's owned by LCC not Hunslet.
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#34 terrywebbisgod

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 08:07 PM

And is any growth due to the move to summer, the sport England cash and development, BARLA, the expansion of conference teams or is it due to Leeds opening their wallet to assist amateur rugby ?

Amateur RL was growing in Leeds before the advent of summer rugby,sport England cash and BARLA involvment.
Once you have tasted excellence,you cannot go back to mediocrity.

#35 The Parksider

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 06:49 AM

Will Leeds be offering their knowhow to develop Hunslets stadium to be SL standard?


No why would they and why are you fishing?

#36 stewpot01

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 07:43 AM

Your not ignorant, and it's a pleasure to indulge you.

I can't remember the first amateur match I went to (it was probably Bradford University where I played when they were short, clubs had to be short to play me seriously) but we had Milford, Stanningley, Bisons and Middleton on Saturdays and on sundays we had a 20 team sunday league that was 11 a side due to player shortage. The latter actually died out pretty quickly. Stanningley played on a park and changed in a pub cellar. I was a young ref then and ran the line against Oulton. You had to run behind the crowd at times.

BARLA assisted a growth not just in the spread of clubs, but in the facilities at clubs over the years. In the modern SL area with Leeds doing so well things have really accelerated. Stanningley today is no longer a pub team, it's a club more valuable to Rugby League than maybe several CC2 clubs. They produce professionals and draw crowds to big games. Even down Hunslet a visit to the Warriors is quite remarkable compared to my first Hunslet amateur visit when I reffed Parkside.v.St. John Fisher and was told I was the worst referee they had had (late penalty for "persistent" offside lost Parkside the game).

I'm not going to do definitive lists. I think the perpetrator of this point can go do his own, but there's a lot of well organised junior RL in age ranges e.g. Milford, Rodley, Easts, Leapords, Queens, Pigeons, Warriors, Stanningley, Wests, Wortley, etc. most in great facilities and well coached. The senior clubs have A teams at times and there's Easts, Milford, Queens, Stanningley, Warriors as the big guns who deliver players like Ablett,Walker, JJB, McGuire, Mathers and I won't go on but suffice to say the city has delivered 22 top professionals to Superleague. That beats hull, that comes only second to Wigan.

It doesn't stop there. Leeds Rhinos are getting schools playing RL who played RU before. Temple Moor was where two of my mates went. They went all the way in a schools championship. In the student arena where I played the Uni, the met and the Trinity colleges run a couple of teams each I think. Leeds Met are the top club who play in the Challenge cup against professionals and hold their own. They get on telly. I find that breathtaking. Up where I am we have the fabulous Akkies with several sides inc a top womens side overshadowing their RU counterparts. There's a big brass statue of Pottsy in the car park. L'Angela Mysterio is head of their supporters club :lol:

Amid all this Hetherington has stated two more amateur clubs are being lined up in his plan for RL in the city. I won't reproduce that again but show me another SL club with grass roots plans like that. I'm not saying Hetherington created all this but he works hard to directly encourage and facilitate it with many initiatives. The Broughtons were inspired to play and turn pro and their picture is up in the local school. The RL desert that was once north Leeds produces pro's.

But according to some it's Hunslet and Bramley that are the "grass roots". If they are forced into oblivion apparently the game will go on to die. I find that breathtakingly ridiculous when I can wander around Leeds on a Weekend and see the grass roots game (miniscule compared with soccer still) so much bigger and so much more vibrant often at the expense of a shrinking RU.

Few years ago we took the kids to Hetheringtons kids day ay Headingley and had a great time. My lad has signed pictures of himself with top stars on his wall JJB, Danny Mac, Ryan Bailey, Ryan Hall, Jamie P etc. All Leeds Internationals and big names. The kids love it. The kids are inspired by it and superleague. At the seasons end with friends we all keep the kids back at the last match and all the players go round the ground and say hello and sign autographs for the kids.

I dont care what happened in terms of fans 40,50,60 years ago. The real point is when hetherington can get an average crowd of as many as nearly 17,000 in 2009 all coming from all parts of Leeds that generates a profit as does the magnificent facilites. Profits enable growth and Hetherington delivers it.

What earthly profits do small championship clubs deliver? How much did Bramley and Hunslet used to generate??

You may think this is odd - someone who's a Hunslet fan not blindly "supporting" his side and his other once favourite club. I followed them as well as most fans up to the modern era, but today I follow RL and want what's best for the game. I'm ultra nostalgic and will physically help preserve the memory of Bramley and Hunslet, but it's the success of the Leeds model I want to see replicated.

We need more big clubs on big crowds making real profits (rather than the ugly struggles of some so called "Super" clubs) they can plough back into the grass roots game in their region and grow and sustain it like it's happening in Leeds. If CC clubs are casualties then you can't have everything. But the fact is the kids don't want flat cap Rugby league, that's for old men like me, and too many old men like me are selfishly calling for a return to or at least a preservation of the past.



Great post Parky and agree with all of it. Shame I no longer have my BARLA handbook from my refereeing days. There were a lot more Junior/open age teams around Leeds than people realise.

#37 Blackpool Hawk

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:46 AM

Great day yesterday, shame just under 800 people turned up, but in the end it wasn't too bad to say there was 30,000 people a mile down the road watching Leeds United and it was live on ESPN. Two committed teams put on a decent show on a really heavy pitch, our dual reg lads were the difference between the team in the end (Very Ironic) but we did well in the bars, so we will have made a fair amount on the game which will go a long way to paying the bills in 2013. Thats what its all about.

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#38 The Parksider

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:29 AM

Great day yesterday, shame just under 800 people turned up, but in the end it wasn't too bad to say there was 30,000 people a mile down the road watching Leeds United and it was live on ESPN. Two committed teams put on a decent show on a really heavy pitch, our dual reg lads were the difference between the team in the end (Very Ironic) but we did well in the bars, so we will have made a fair amount on the game which will go a long way to paying the bills in 2013. Thats what its all about.


Shame Huns didn't get to play them then! but a good match a decent crowd and above all money in the tills.

Thanks for your reply this morning assume you had a good late night!!

#39 Blackpool Hawk

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:29 PM

Fair to say i was a little hungover this morning, hope to see you at game this season Phil?

Gareth

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