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what do you really want?


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#41 hilly

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 09:55 PM

So we don't have any Money to get our own players nobody pays to watch us no TV money no money from R.F.L. Oh well lets beg Warrington for players then the powers that be won,t have. To spend any of this money

#42 mark richardson

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:16 PM

Lets sum up the pros ond cons on this topic it seems the pros are Warrington help us out with players and training facility's the cons our own players get pushed threw the door the kids don't have to spend any money from there T.V money on players we will lose our identity we will never get a new stadium and will soon be playing our games at Warrington we might as well jump into bed with Salford and become there feeder club and play our games there it's a JOKE we need to be SWINTON and have our own players our own identity our own ground the club owners will have to stand up and be counted for the sake of SWINTON LIONS or sit back and be swallowed up by super league

Yeah the kidds are making a fortune. I'll add that to my earlier list!

#43 duffymoon

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:30 PM

Apparently the RFL have some rules in place with regard to the dual reg system that will help protect the integrity of the competition.Found this on another forum.Just to clarify some of the concerns within this thread. What people may not be aware if is that the RFL have produced a whole list of governance procedures, restrictions and criteria regarding the dual reg arrangements - particularly around salary cap and numbers of games permitted.
Each player has been given a notional value by the RFL (Governed by their parent Club actual salary). So anytime a player (with the exception of U21s) plays on dual reg, the dual reg receiving club has to absorb the players notional value on to their salary cap returns. Thus intending to prevent a glut of top players playing week in week out.
Also, there is a restriction on players being involved in the latter stages of the competition. The player has to have played a defined number of games to be able to play in the last eight weeks of competition - up to the play offs.
These, along with other measures will go a long way to protecting the integrity of the competition.

Edited by duffymoon, 28 January 2013 - 11:31 PM.


#44 mark richardson

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:17 AM

Interesting quote from last nights inside story was that people have been predicting rugby leagues demise since the 1890s.
The cumulative debt in super league being around £70million.


#45 Barnie

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:20 AM

So we don't have any Money to get our own players nobody pays to watch us no TV money no money from R.F.L. Oh well lets beg Warrington for players then the powers that be won,t have. To spend any of this money


i take it you've not been to any of the meetings that have been held by the club recently. this vitriolic diatribe is ridiculous at best.

we are playing by the rules set out. if you dont like it dont watch Swinton. simples.

i hear there is a game called soccer or something like that. try giving that a watch.
Dont worry, it will soon be Christmas!

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#46 PhillH

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:59 AM

Moving on slightly - we may see Phil Joseph lining up for Workington on Sunday I guess.
Rugby League - great game, shame about the administration.

#47 Keith T

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 04:06 PM

Apparently the RFL have some rules in place with regard to the dual reg system that will help protect the integrity of the competition.Found this on another forum.Just to clarify some of the concerns within this thread. What people may not be aware if is that the RFL have produced a whole list of governance procedures, restrictions and criteria regarding the dual reg arrangements - particularly around salary cap and numbers of games permitted.
Each player has been given a notional value by the RFL (Governed by their parent Club actual salary). So anytime a player (with the exception of U21s) plays on dual reg, the dual reg receiving club has to absorb the players notional value on to their salary cap returns. Thus intending to prevent a glut of top players playing week in week out.
Also, there is a restriction on players being involved in the latter stages of the competition. The player has to have played a defined number of games to be able to play in the last eight weeks of competition - up to the play offs.
These, along with other measures will go a long way to protecting the integrity of the competition.


Just to add to your post some figures that will be used:-

A SL player on salary of £100k+ adds - £1,500 per match to the Championship clubs salary cap total
A SL player on salary of £60k - £99,999 adds - £1,000 per match
A SL player on salary of £40k - £59,999 adds - £750 per match
A SL player on salary of £20k - £39,999 adds - £500 per match
A SL player on salary of Under £20k adds - Actual costs incurred.

It doesn't matter if the Championship club doesn't have to pay a penny towards the SL player it still counts on that clubs salary cap total.

The other point is that just the same as last year dual reg players have to play a certain percentage of qualifying games throughout the season to be able to play in the Championship play-offs, so a club can't just bring in top player at the end of the season.

Only clubs that are linked can use the dual registering process. Clubs not so linked can still loan players for a minimum of 28 days.

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#48 Blue Monkey

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 06:48 PM

Interesting quote from last nights inside story was that people have been predicting rugby leagues demise since the 1890s.
The cumulative debt in super league being around £70million.


See link below from BBC Sport website. Is this what you mean?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/21211330

#49 mark richardson

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 07:48 PM

See link below from BBC Sport website. Is this what you mean?
Yes it was on tv Monday night

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/21211330



#50 bigtony

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:49 AM

Lets sum up the pros ond cons on this topic it seems the pros are Warrington help us out with players and training facility's the cons our own players get pushed threw the door the kids don't have to spend any money from there T.V money on players we will lose our identity we will never get a new stadium and will soon be playing our games at Warrington we might as well jump into bed with Salford and become there feeder club and play our games there it's a JOKE we need to be SWINTON and have our own players our own identity our own ground the club owners will have to stand up and be counted for the sake of SWINTON LIONS or sit back and be swallowed up by super league

Ive been trying to get my point across about the size of swintons squad for a while now,i worry at why swinton have only been able to recruit 17 players is it by choice or is there other reasons why players won't come to swinton.Most champ clubs have 20/25 squad players plus dr players, i think the size of the squad could have a big impact on swintons season ( hope im wrong ). I think this sunday will be a good indication as to how swinton will go, workington having only just come up.
Good luck for the season

#51 Bryce

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 02:04 PM

I believe this was the 2012 squad for the start of last season (22 players)

Martin Ainscough
Karl Ashall
Ian Mort
Chaz I'Anson
Mark Smith
Gavin Dodd
Alex Hurst
Mike Morrison
Dale Cunniffe
Lee Wingfield - Retired early last season
Neil Holland - Injured for the early stages of the season

Ritchie Hawkyard
Darren Hawkyard
Sam Reay
Ian Watson
Andy Gorski - Loaned out to SW, subsequently left permenantly
Danny Meekin
Tom Armstrong
Rob Foxen - Loaned out to Oldham, subsequently left permenantly
Adam Higson - Injured for the final third of the season, subsequently left

David Mills
Kevin Penny

Once the DR players were added last season we were ok, and some would say even better than previous.

Forster
Hale
Walker
Riley
(I've forgotten others that signed!)

Either way, players were still unhappy about not being given game time, Holland, Meekin, Foxen, Gorski, even Hurst, Ashall and Reay were used intermittently. Having thought about it, surely having 17 players signed on a permenant basis is probably better than last season in that we should be able to keep the majority of our players happy with game-time. Especially if 5-10 Warrington players are also training with our first team.

Granted, it's not ideal if we get numerous injuries. However, last season we had some big players out with injuries, Higson, Morty, Daz Hawkyard and we managed okay. Can we put our end of season slump down to our lack of numbers? unsure.

Either way, this is what we've got and we'll get on with it.

#52 Little Lion Man

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 02:29 PM

Ive been trying to get my point across about the size of swintons squad for a while now,i worry at why swinton have only been able to recruit 17 players is it by choice or is there other reasons why players won't come to swinton.Most champ clubs have 20/25 squad players plus dr players, i think the size of the squad could have a big impact on swintons season ( hope im wrong ). I think this sunday will be a good indication as to how swinton will go, workington having only just come up.
Good luck for the season


I suspect (or is that hope) there are still some negotiations going on even at this late stage. We have yet to announce squad numbers yet so we live in hope. It may be that some of the present dual reg become more permenant for the season.....as indicated in the Advertiser.

Given that workington have signed on the whole of Widnes' first team squad (except Hock and overseas visa holders) as Dual Registration then Sunday may not be a good indicator at all ! Widnes are playing at the same time so unless time travel comes into it I expect a great game whoever plays.

Good to be back

Lets enjoy...

I don't mind stealing bread from the mouths of decadence.

"Be mindful of the prayers you send,
Pray hard but pray with care,
For the tears that you are crying now,
Are just your answered prayers"


#53 bigtony

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 02:34 PM

Is it not about competition for places though,some players may get lazy knowing their place is safe every week

#54 PhillH

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 02:34 PM

Just to add to your post some figures that will be used:-

A SL player on salary of £100k+ adds - £1,500 per match to the Championship clubs salary cap total
A SL player on salary of £60k - £99,999 adds - £1,000 per match
A SL player on salary of £40k - £59,999 adds - £750 per match
A SL player on salary of £20k - £39,999 adds - £500 per match
A SL player on salary of Under £20k adds - Actual costs incurred.

It doesn't matter if the Championship club doesn't have to pay a penny towards the SL player it still counts on that clubs salary cap total.

The other point is that just the same as last year dual reg players have to play a certain percentage of qualifying games throughout the season to be able to play in the Championship play-offs, so a club can't just bring in top player at the end of the season.

Only clubs that are linked can use the dual registering process. Clubs not so linked can still loan players for a minimum of 28 days.


The authorities have focussed on the threat of a club bringing in a big-name highly paid player on a short-term deal just for the playoffs ever since Warrington brought Andrew Johns over in those circumstances. On a lesser scale Oldham also tried a similar tactic. One impact of this being that it demeans the value of the league fixtures. Personally I prefer to think of the side that tops the league table as the true "Champions" as its a test of consistency.

However! These rules don't map across perfectly to the situation in the Championship this season, as there's another factor that doesn't apply to Super League - i.e. relegation. Ironically, the penalty for getting relegated into Championship 1 is likely to be a much larger sum than any prize money available at the top end of the table. So - what happens if we get a relegation 6 pointer? A side might be tempted to think £1,500 is a small price to pay in order to secure themselves another season in the second tier, as opposed to going down.
Rugby League - great game, shame about the administration.

#55 Keith T

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 02:57 PM

The authorities have focussed on the threat of a club bringing in a big-name highly paid player on a short-term deal just for the playoffs ever since Warrington brought Andrew Johns over in those circumstances. On a lesser scale Oldham also tried a similar tactic. One impact of this being that it demeans the value of the league fixtures. Personally I prefer to think of the side that tops the league table as the true "Champions" as its a test of consistency.

However! These rules don't map across perfectly to the situation in the Championship this season, as there's another factor that doesn't apply to Super League - i.e. relegation. Ironically, the penalty for getting relegated into Championship 1 is likely to be a much larger sum than any prize money available at the top end of the table. So - what happens if we get a relegation 6 pointer? A side might be tempted to think £1,500 is a small price to pay in order to secure themselves another season in the second tier, as opposed to going down.


That's always assuming that by that stage of the season they can fit £1,500 in to their salary cap total Phil!!!

I think you will find this weekend that Swinton will probably play more DR players than Town and we have upwards of 7 or 8 out injured or suspended.

Last year we had a squad of 23 or 24 plus 4 DR players but a run of bad injuries at the end of the season saw us lose about 9 and we had to send a patched up team to Gateshead using 2 retired players, a 17 year old prop on the wing, get another lad from Uni to play and put down 2 of the injured players as subs to avoid getting a fine for not having 17 names on the team sheet. It cost us the Championship 1 title so this DR system gives us a little bit of a safety net this time.

It will be a good game on Sunday as it always is between our two sides.

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#56 Bryce

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 03:27 PM

Is it not about competition for places though,some players may get lazy knowing their place is safe every week


Very true, we have to try and find that consistency.

Personally I'd like a good 4-5 more players signed up for the Lions, as I assume others would as well. But as usual the proof will be how the team performs over the season. Hopefully there will be a good start against Workington on Sunday.

#57 PhillH

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 03:57 PM

Very true, we have to try and find that consistency.

Personally I'd like a good 4-5 more players signed up for the Lions, as I assume others would as well. But as usual the proof will be how the team performs over the season. Hopefully there will be a good start against Workington on Sunday.


The real answer is to field a reserve side.

Notwithstanding that, there's a couple of important switches in emphasis for the 2013 Dual Registered players when compared to 2012.

Last season the backs were all contracted players - Dual Registered players were focussed entirely in the forwards. That meant some players like Meekin (who I would welcome back tomorrow), Wingfield and Gorski were very unlucky in my opinion, didn't get much opportunity to play and ultimately retired / left for pastures new / haven't joined this year. Another impact was a reasonable degree of stability in the three quarters, also at half back and the 2 hookers.

There is a different challenge for Steve McCormack this time around. I think this reflects the fact that under this partnership agreement Warrington has a massive influence on who goes across on Dual Registration, so the deal has to suit Warrington's needs and that brings in an entirely new aspect.

I feel it will be a more difficult job for Steve McCormack to properly gell the team patterns, as the 2013 Dual Registered players are in positions all across the park and likely to change with greater regularity. For example Dwyer is a type of player that will have his hands on the ball at virtually every play, he will be part of the central spine of the team, helping make the play and shaping the basic structure of the side. He's the kind of player of which you could normally say - "Build the team around him" - but when he might disappear at any moment, that's a risky thing to do.

On the flip side, at least we don't have one particular area of the side overloaded with Dual Registered players like it was last year. Hopefully a plus side of that will be no contracted Swinton player has 3 or 4 Dual Registered players above them in the pecking order for their respective position. So hopefully we won't have the sort of situation that inflicted Lee Winfield et al last year when they had effectively little or no chance of getting a game - a part time player asked to compete against 3 or 4 full timers for the shirt.

I'm also of the opinion that Carl Forster and Adam Walker were superior quality to any of the D/R players we have seen so far from Warrington.
Rugby League - great game, shame about the administration.

#58 Bryce

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 04:16 PM

I agree with the majority of your points Phil.

I don't think we'd be able to run a reserve side, mainly due to funding.

Forster and Walker were quality and would walk straight into our team this season, which probably means we've taken a step back with regards to quality. It's good to see Riley back though!

A back line with very little experience at this level as well, but I do like alot of the new signings and they've shown alot of promise.

If Dwyer is avilable, he should be in our 17 every week.

#59 greengrass

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 09:40 PM

I agree with everything what as been said on this topic, I am sticking to the fact I have got 100% faith in Steve Mc and if he says were heading in the right direction then I will go with him on it.

Plus you never know, some more players could be coming very soon

#60 haven4ever

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:41 AM

The dual reg concept as it was have no problem with ,you could only register 4 players all under a certain age.
It gave championship clubs access to
good players who have the potential to play SL but are not ready for it week in week out .
Gave the player a chance to play at a higher level than academy and develop further as a player
it was to give the SL club a chance to look at how they perform and develop at a higher level and it worked Shaw at barrow Peterson at town etc.
But now you can register as many players as you want(full squads in some cases) and any age,and this is my issue with it.Why register a player like Kevin brown who will play for Widnes week in week out.The only reason I can think of is to give him a bit of game time if he is coming back from injury,and this type of use of player to get first team players fit or keep them fit is the first step to being said SLClubs reserve team.You only have to read Dennis betts comments how he has spoken to his players about how turning out for Workington will be good to bring them back from injury or non selection to see that's how they see it.
We have Linked up with saints and have yet to announce who we have on DR, and looks like we will use our own squad for this week at least,but I'm hopeing it will be up coming players we register,as I would be against us registering loads of players and being seen as a way to keep fringe players fit.

Edited by haven4ever, 31 January 2013 - 10:48 AM.





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