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Rugby League World Issue 402

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#161 The Parksider

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 07:50 PM

The game is at a crossroads and you can ignore the warning signs. I and others have concerns about where the game is heading and with good reason


Then why not give me a reason?

Why not tell me why a 14 club league in which six of the clubs are big enough to attract very big crowds in RL terms, in which twelve of of the clubs have heavy duty multi-millionaire backers, and which is backed by a very very big TV contract is somehow "at the crossroads".

This is just another slogan as is "warning signs".

The Superleague is not heading anywhere other than in 2015 when they will restructure for another three years. As it stands and all being well we will have at least 12 clubs with the money to ensure clubs are on a financial even keel so that they can again deliver the SKY contract.

Edited by The Parksider, 29 January 2013 - 08:01 PM.


#162 stewpot01

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:02 PM

I don't know if they can or can't see it Stewpot. I like to think that we can all accept that RL is not what we want it to be or that our own clubs are not where we want them to be, accept that and have a reasoned debate.

It probably needs some clubs to get into deep trouble, it probably needs some clubs to fold before people finally accept that the SKY contract keeps the game alive and we need to deliver a professional competition.

Beyond that nothing matters for without it there may be nothing RL wise and that's what a reasoned debate delivered before Xmas..


I think it's a sad reflection of how our game is been run. I am by nature a nostalgic person, but also want to look forward and would love to see our game thriving. God forbid if SKY ever pull the plug, the consequences would be unthinkable. I dread the day any clubs do fold but I feel it is inevitable.

#163 The Parksider

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:08 PM

The simply throwing away of an important step for many players including future internationals of academy team in the hope of saving money is a major concern.


It's not a major concern. The best Rugby League kids will continue to make the grade regardless of the changes. the late developers of which there are infinately less can still ply their trade with Championship clubs and it's a win win situation all round.

Sure the sport England funding is a blow to RL across the country but do excuse the devil that is the RFL organising semi pro clubs around the country and pairing them with pro clubs.

#164 keighley

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:11 PM

I don't know why you keep banging on about York, its a none starter for SL, they have never topped 15,000 for an attendance even when the game was at its post war peak.

The demographics of the city are all wrong.


But London have had only a couple of attendances over 10,000, Catalans ground dosn't even hold 15, 000, when did Widnes have a 15,000 crowd that wasn't for a game against Wigan or Warrington. Huddersfield have not drawn over a 8,000 average in living memory. You post absolute figures and postulate that this is incapable of being achieved but my point is that, given the right circumstances York is big enough to push towards 10,000 if in SL. York has very rarely had a top team, Who knows what is possible if they have one.

That something has never been done dosn't mean it can't ever be done. Sheffield will never win the Cup. The French RL is not strong enough to support a SL team, Wigan will never be relegated. Dare to dream.

You and your alter ego constantly exude negativity if any further additions to your sacrosanct SL are ever even breathed aloud.

#165 Padge

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:13 PM

I suggest 10 miles is close enough to be considered bordering which is what hemmed means in this context as in the hem on the edge or or on the border of a piece of cloth.


Wigan sits to the North of St.Helens , Warrington and Widnes. North of Wigan there are no pro or semi pro clubs until you get to Cumbria easy access to Preston 15mins on a train, by motorway Preston and Blackburn are less than 45mins away, to the West Wigan has a direct motorway link into Liverpool which is also handy for Southport and Ormskirk. To the North East we have Bolton with a direct rail link. Wigan draws quite a few supporters from Manchester, direct rail link again.

Wigan Borough stretches so far to the East that parts of it have Manchester postcodes and goes so far south that parts of it have Warrington post codes.

You have a strange idea of hemmed in.

The 5 Lancashire clubs sit in the middle of a population of 6 million people with a huge motorway network in the region, there i practically a ring road of motorways joining Wigan, Widnes and Warrington with St.Helens in the centre and all have good rail links, Wigan and Warrington especially so. Even with those advantages, certain clubs struggle.

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#166 Marauder

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:15 PM

It's not a major concern. The best Rugby League kids will continue to make the grade regardless of the changes. the late developers of which there are infinately less can still ply their trade with Championship clubs and it's a win win situation all round.

Sure the sport England funding is a blow to RL across the country but do excuse the devil that is the RFL organising semi pro clubs around the country and pairing them with pro clubs.

So how do you expect a semi-pro club in a none heartland area without any die hard support survive, when on the other hand it seems you want a cull of heartland clubs who have and do produce professional players and supporters to the game?
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#167 stewpot01

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:16 PM

But London have had only a couple of attendances over 10,000, Catalans ground dosn't even hold 15, 000, when did Widnes have a 15,000 crowd that wasn't for a game against Wigan or Warrington. Huddersfield have not drawn over a 8,000 average in living memory. You post absolute figures and postulate that this is incapable of being achieved but my point is that, given the right circumstances York is big enough to push towards 10,000 if in SL. York has very rarely had a top team, Who knows what is possible if they have one.

That something has never been done dosn't mean it can't ever be done. Sheffield will never win the Cup. The French RL is not strong enough to support a SL team, Wigan will never be relegated. Dare to dream.

You and your alter ego constantly exude negativity if any further additions to your sacrosanct SL are ever even breathed aloud.


I don't think York is a strong RL city, no matter what we speculate. I could never see them averaging above 5,000. The city as a whole is a racing city, even the football team has struggled to sustain hardcore support down the years and they only had Darlington as a serious rival.

Edited by stewpot01, 29 January 2013 - 08:18 PM.


#168 The Parksider

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:18 PM

I think it's a sad reflection of how our game is been run. I am by nature a nostalgic person, but also want to look forward and would love to see our game thriving. God forbid if SKY ever pull the plug, the consequences would be unthinkable. I dread the day any clubs do fold but I feel it is inevitable.


I'm puzzled by this. Our game is a minority sport. It's too tough to play to ever be a majority sport and was out manouvered by Union historically anyway.

But despite it's historical problems it's here today and playing professionally and is respected across the sporting world.

It's thriving in the only places it can across the M62 down in southern France, over in Aus.

If clubs start to fold, then look at the Leeds model where three semi pro clubs existed.

There one club folded and the other very very nearly folded (and has folded as an independant club) yet you have the biggest and most successful RL club in the northern hemisphere left in their place.

Sssshhhh..... That may be the secret for more success and a guarantee of the SKY contract for decades to come ;)

#169 stewpot01

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:21 PM

I'm puzzled by this. Our game is a minority sport. It's too tough to play to ever be a majority sport and was out manouvered by Union historically anyway.

But despite it's historical problems it's here today and playing professionally and is respected across the sporting world.

It's thriving in the only places it can across the M62 down in southern France, over in Aus.

If clubs start to fold, then look at the Leeds model where three semi pro clubs existed.

There one club folded and the other very very nearly folded (and has folded as an independant club) yet you have the biggest and most successful RL club in the northern hemisphere left in their place.

Sssshhhh..... That may be the secret for more success and a guarantee of the SKY contract for decades to come ;)


:)

#170 Terry Mullaney

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:22 PM

2. Hetherington perhaps wrongly let himself have a veiled dig. That does not detract from his deep knowledge of what the game needs, his long experience especially with expansion, and his current achievements. I do hope you are not suggesting we disqualify a capable candidate on such a tiny slip?

No I'm not suggesting he wouldn't be capable, I actually agree with you but he did mention 'clubs' (plural) so he wasn't just referring to the Bulls.
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#171 keighley

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:23 PM

I don't think York is a strong RL city, no matter what we speculate. I could never see them averaging above 5,000. The city as a whole is a racing city, even the football team has struggled to sustain hardcore support down the years and they only had Darlington as a serious rival.


The football team has never been anywhere near the top divisions.

#172 Padge

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:23 PM

But London have had only a couple of attendances over 10,000, Catalans ground dosn't even hold 15, 000, when did Widnes have a 15,000 crowd that wasn't for a game against Wigan or Warrington. Huddersfield have not drawn over a 8,000 average in living memory. You post absolute figures and postulate that this is incapable of being achieved but my point is that, given the right circumstances York is big enough to push towards 10,000 if in SL. York has very rarely had a top team, Who knows what is possible if they have one.

That something has never been done dosn't mean it can't ever be done. Sheffield will never win the Cup. The French RL is not strong enough to support a SL team, Wigan will never be relegated. Dare to dream.

You and your alter ego constantly exude negativity if any further additions to your sacrosanct SL are ever even breathed aloud.


I am a realist, not a fantasist, Sheffield won the cup great occasion, did them no good whatsoever.

The point about Yorks record attendance is that it was in 1937, since then they appear to have had one exceptional game against Hull where it was the last game of the season for a Hull team going for having won all its games that season, I am sure the vast majority of that crowd weren't from the 200k population of York.

You can fantasise about York as potential SL club all you want, facts and history are against it.

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#173 The Parksider

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:28 PM

1.So how do you expect a semi-pro club in a none heartland area without any die hard support survive,

2. It seems you want a cull of heartland clubs who have and do produce professional players and supporters to the game?


Oh Hello Marauder....

1. I don't expect them to survive, i was defending the RFL for making an effort no matter how futile.

You give me the answer if you have a better one?

2. We have to deliver the SKY contract. The M62 has about 120,000 paying fans and produces around 130 top professional players.

Spread them amongst 26 M62 clubs and nobody will be super.

I don't actually care, Hunslet Warriors.v.Moorend Thorne Marauders will do me I'm just pointing out the obvious. Don't high tackle the messenger.

#174 The Parksider

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:30 PM

No I'm not suggesting he wouldn't be capable, I actually agree with you but he did mention 'clubs' (plural) so he wasn't just referring to the Bulls.


OOOOOooohhhh Terry, he maybe said clubs so he could not be accused of singling one out.

#175 stewpot01

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:34 PM

The football team has never been anywhere near the top divisions.


Makes no difference, and I thnk you will find that York city where in the old 2nd division in the mid 70's, I think that is 'near enough' the top divisions. Even in their promotion season they averaged a pituful 6,000 and it only increased to 8,000 in division two, and this was when football grounds had very good attendances. The last time the football team got an attendance anywhere 10,000 was 1956 and I would not see a RL team getting anywhere near that. Bottom line, RL is the poor relation of the City's sporting family.

Edited by stewpot01, 29 January 2013 - 08:42 PM.


#176 Lounge Room Lizard

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:35 PM

It's not a major concern. The best Rugby League kids will continue to make the grade regardless of the changes. the late developers of which there are infinately less can still ply their trade with Championship clubs and it's a win win situation all round.

Sure the sport England funding is a blow to RL across the country but do excuse the devil that is the RFL organising semi pro clubs around the country and pairing them with pro clubs.


Not according to Mark Aston, Karl Harrison and Daryll Powell who are all of the opinion that where the game is heading is not good. Harrison has said that he would have never made the grade as he was a late developer if todays system was in place in his day. And all 3 I have much respect for both as coaches and players.

And how does the RFL intend to help the North East or the Midlands which dont have a semi Pro team linked with a SL team? And the heartlands are seeing the likes of Union and Soccer increase their profile and development http://www.halifaxco...ation-1-5349922 . If the sport is not careful it will lose even more ground while it stands still and thinking linking a couple of semi pro clubs to SL will do. Grassroots is vital for the development of both the sport at pro and amateur level. Win win situation? Thats your RFL Propaganda again. Lets see how this all goes this season first.But a number of people who have way more experience and knowledge of the game than you or me put together have massive doubts and have spoken about them in public

#177 del capo

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:35 PM

Wigan sits to the North of St.Helens , Warrington and Widnes. North of Wigan there are no pro or semi pro clubs until you get to Cumbria easy access to Preston 15mins on a train, by motorway Preston and Blackburn are less than 45mins away, to the West Wigan has a direct motorway link into Liverpool which is also handy for Southport and Ormskirk. To the North East we have Bolton with a direct rail link. Wigan draws quite a few supporters from Manchester, direct rail link again.

Wigan Borough stretches so far to the East that parts of it have Manchester postcodes and goes so far south that parts of it have Warrington post codes.

You have a strange idea of hemmed in.

The 5 Lancashire clubs sit in the middle of a population of 6 million people with a huge motorway network in the region, there i practically a ring road of motorways joining Wigan, Widnes and Warrington with St.Helens in the centre and all have good rail links, Wigan and Warrington especially so. Even with those advantages, certain clubs struggle.


Your're right Padge

Wigan has the same population as the whole of Cumbria.

But more to the point there are more than a dozen top Community Clubs ( including 7 NCL outfits ) turning out over a hundred teams . Before the Service areas were swept away this month the Wigan and Leigh one was credited with more than 2,600 players..

Some areas have a long way to go....

#178 keighley

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:40 PM

I am a realist, not a fantasist, Sheffield won the cup great occasion, did them no good whatsoever.

The point about Yorks record attendance is that it was in 1937, since then they appear to have had one exceptional game against Hull where it was the last game of the season for a Hull team going for having won all its games that season, I am sure the vast majority of that crowd weren't from the 200k population of York.

You can fantasise about York as potential SL club all you want, facts and history are against it.


I will do just that. The York club appear to be about to get a top class stadium. The City is big enough. the city has good transport links. Time will tell what the management of York either want to or can achieve. History is against the Broncos but they still keep trying.

#179 Padge

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:43 PM

I will do just that. The York club appear to be about to get a top class stadium. The City is big enough. the city has good transport links. Time will tell what the management of York either want to or can achieve. History is against the Broncos but they still keep trying.

The city isn't big enough and the transport links are poor, though they do have a lot of farm tracks to places with populations of 6.

Broncos are in the wrong place as well.

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#180 keighley

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:44 PM

Your're right Padge

Wigan has the same population as the whole of Cumbria.

But more to the point there are more than a dozen top Community Clubs ( including 7 NCL outfits ) turning out over a hundred teams . Before the Service areas were swept away this month the Wigan and Leigh one was credited with more than 2,600 players..

Some areas have a long way to go....


I believe Halifax has produced many many top pro players also and has a very good thriving junior set up to this day.




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