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#21 Marauder

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:27 PM

This would be the same clubs who voted for their junior clubs to move to summer in the first place. Not sure why they would vote now to go back to winter. Truth is most kids would rather play in the summer and most of their parents would rather watch them and do vol work in the summer. Junior clubs in Yorkshire chose to go to summer. The only reason there isn't a winter comp for junior teams in Yorkshire is because there weren't enough clubs who wanted to play in winter.


Most junior sections at clubs govern themselves with their own committee & secretary, like the biggest percentage of secretaries who go to meeting they will follow what the league committee will tell them without question just like sheep.

Summer in theory is the ideal time for any sport to be played; the reality is there are far too many other distractions and this has been spoken about on here many times.

Probably 10,000 reasons why they chose to go summer and probably as many why they are talking about a move back to winter (If you check juniors do play in the winter)

Edited by Marauder, 29 January 2013 - 11:29 PM.

Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#22 del capo

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 12:14 AM

Whats the problem If they take over BARLA by the ballot box.


Absolutely no problem at all with that Marauder.

Trouble is the Yorkshire Districts because of the voting blocks have maintained the status quo at Barla for at least 15 years . That's largely the Pennine League feeder Districts isn't it ? If they are eventually smelling the coffee they will certainly get Red Rose and Cumbria support. But hey let's see what rolls out......

Meanwhile Open Age delegates need to be very careful about directing juniors to a particular season. They quite frankly don't have a mandate for that. Looks good on paper perhaps , but history tells you that the Juniors will run separately , sometimes chaotically , but always where they want to be. One of the reasons why the NCL , which could otherwise bring over 400 junior teams directly under it's control, has chosen not to .

Food for thought for the Pennine Management ?

#23 Ranger12

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 01:05 AM

There is time to sort out the problems with junior rugby ,the main problem is going to be in a few years time,when juniors from a winter based club go to open age having only ever played in summer.thats what what winter based clubs are concerned about.how many will stay summer.
The more pressing concern is the overlap of winter and summer based open age leagues,with so many players electing to play both.
The Rfl have have said the summer based club is the primary club for a player and winter secondary,surely it is up to the player to decide which is his primary club.
At the moment a player has to get a transfer from summer to winter but not from winter to summer,with many ncl clubs are using this to there advantage by making it very difficult for a player to get these forms filled in and signed.at the moment the ncl seem to have no intention of coming to a compromise to overcome this and the Rfl are not exactly rushing forward either.
Surely logic dictates that if a player chooses winter or summer as his primary season then he should have to finish that season before being allowed to move over,that would then solve a lot of the problems and clubs will know where they stand with player numbers.but that would need all parties to agree,there lies the problem.

#24 del capo

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 01:33 AM

There is time to sort out the problems with junior rugby ,the main problem is going to be in a few years time,when juniors from a winter based club go to open age having only ever played in summer.thats what what winter based clubs are concerned about.how many will stay summer.
The more pressing concern is the overlap of winter and summer based open age leagues,with so many players electing to play both.
The Rfl have have said the summer based club is the primary club for a player and winter secondary,surely it is up to the player to decide which is his primary club.
At the moment a player has to get a transfer from summer to winter but not from winter to summer,with many ncl clubs are using this to there advantage by making it very difficult for a player to get these forms filled in and signed.at the moment the ncl seem to have no intention of coming to a compromise to overcome this and the Rfl are not exactly rushing forward either.
Surely logic dictates that if a player chooses winter or summer as his primary season then he should have to finish that season before being allowed to move over,that would then solve a lot of the problems and clubs will know where they stand with player numbers.but that would need all parties to agree,there lies the problem.


Summer based Juniors will expect in due course an Open Age summer comp. Your winter teams need to adapt to the obvious future ?

And finally you come round to the Primary / Secondary registration issues . A lot of people spent a lot of hours on that one. They got it right and hey ho for you at least the penny has just dropped. Pity your Pennine League won't accept it , and could well be cleaned out of quality players in March as a consequence....

#25 mmp

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 09:06 AM

The Rfl have have said the summer based club is the primary club for a player and winter secondary,surely it is up to the player to decide which is his primary club.


not the case at all and sounds like a typical bit of mis-information!

the club the player registers with is the primary club. if that club is not playing, and a club in a different competition has a game then the player can play as a secondary registered player for that club.

here's how it worked for Bury Broncos (summer) and Irlam (winter) - Irlam players played for Bury when their season finished, when the winter season started up again, they played for Irlam. They were primary registered at Irlam so they got first choice. There are currently some Bury players playing for Irlam as a secondary club so it works both ways and it is up to individual clubs to manage the impacts.

The player however can elect to use the transfer mechanism to transfer their primary registration. so, as an example, a NCL registered player wanted to join Bury - they could have played as a secondary registered player on dates when not needed by the NCL club but instead, wanted to be available to Bury so transferred to Bury and became primary registered with us. as it happens, he has played one or two games this winter as a secondary regsistered player at a winter club. all his own choices and enabled by the system put in place.

so there is absolutely nothing wrong with that system! It's up to the player who he is primary regsistered with (subject to league transfer rules) and it can be a winter side if he wishes.

Edited by mmp, 30 January 2013 - 09:11 AM.

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#26 Marauder

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 02:49 PM

Absolutely no problem at all with that Marauder.

Trouble is the Yorkshire Districts because of the voting blocks have maintained the status quo at Barla for at least 15 years . That's largely the Pennine League feeder Districts isn't it ? If they are eventually smelling the coffee they will certainly get Red Rose and Cumbria support. But hey let's see what rolls out......

Meanwhile Open Age delegates need to be very careful about directing juniors to a particular season. They quite frankly don't have a mandate for that. Looks good on paper perhaps , but history tells you that the Juniors will run separately , sometimes chaotically , but always where they want to be. One of the reasons why the NCL , which could otherwise bring over 400 junior teams directly under it's control, has chosen not to .

Food for thought for the Pennine Management ?

The juniors could have ;) 10,000 ;) reasons why they want to play in the winter again (Did the RFL tell the leagues to go back to the winter? "Thought not", If they do chose too I'm sure BARLA will provide a safe and controlled enviroment.

Edited by Marauder, 30 January 2013 - 02:50 PM.

Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#27 Marauder

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 02:55 PM

Summer based Juniors will expect in due course an Open Age summer comp. Your winter teams need to adapt to the obvious future ?

And finally you come round to the Primary / Secondary registration issues . A lot of people spent a lot of hours on that one. They got it right and hey ho for you at least the penny has just dropped. Pity your Pennine League won't accept it , and could well be cleaned out of quality players in March as a consequence....

What made the NCL so strong was a game every week and the standard of those games, last summer you got the game every week.
Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#28 Ranger12

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:04 PM

not the case at all and sounds like a typical bit of mis-information!

the club the player registers with is the primary club. if that club is not playing, and a club in a different competition has a game then the player can play as a secondary registered player for that club.

here's how it worked for Bury Broncos (summer) and Irlam (winter) - Irlam players played for Bury when their season finished, when the winter season started up again, they played for Irlam. They were primary registered at Irlam so they got first choice. There are currently some Bury players playing for Irlam as a secondary club so it works both ways and it is up to individual clubs to manage the impacts.

The player however can elect to use the transfer mechanism to transfer their primary registration. so, as an example, a NCL registered player wanted to join Bury - they could have played as a secondary registered player on dates when not needed by the NCL club but instead, wanted to be available to Bury so transferred to Bury and became primary registered with us. as it happens, he has played one or two games this winter as a secondary regsistered player at a winter club. all his own choices and enabled by the system put in place.

so there is absolutely nothing wrong with that system! It's up to the player who he is primary regsistered with (subject to league transfer rules) and it can be a winter side if he wishes.



#29 Ranger12

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:07 PM

not the case at all and sounds like a typical bit of mis-information!

the club the player registers with is the primary club. if that club is not playing, and a club in a different competition has a game then the player can play as a secondary registered player for that club.

here's how it worked for Bury Broncos (summer) and Irlam (winter) - Irlam players played for Bury when their season finished, when the winter season started up again, they played for Irlam. They were primary registered at Irlam so they got first choice. There are currently some Bury players playing for Irlam as a secondary club so it works both ways and it is up to individual clubs to manage the impacts.

The player however can elect to use the transfer mechanism to transfer their primary registration. so, as an example, a NCL registered player wanted to join Bury - they could have played as a secondary registered player on dates when not needed by the NCL club but instead, wanted to be available to Bury so transferred to Bury and became primary registered with us. as it happens, he has played one or two games this winter as a secondary regsistered player at a winter club. all his own choices and enabled by the system put in place.

so there is absolutely nothing wrong with that system! It's up to the player who he is primary regsistered with (subject to league transfer rules) and it can be a winter side if he wishes.


I'm afraid that is not how it works in the pennine league,it is how I first described ,as a coach and club official I have plenty experience of this.

#30 mmp

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:15 PM

I'm afraid that is not how it works in the pennine league,it is how I first described ,as a coach and club official I have plenty experience of this.


Need to have a word with Pennine league then? Can't see how It can work in NW and not in Yorks
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#31 Marauder

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:38 PM

Need to have a word with Pennine league & Hull then? Can't see how It can work in NW and not in Yorks

Some of you seem to be forgetting the Hull league is alive and kicking, infact outside of the NCL 1st teams only 3 other teams will be running this summer (two are NCL 2nd teams and Easts from whats going around are trying to get the third to play as their 2nds)
Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#32 Ranger12

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 09:49 PM

Need to have a word with Pennine league then? Can't see how It can work in NW and not in Yorks



Possibly there is a fear factor of the pennine from the Rfl,the largest league in the country can still cause problems for the Rfl long term plans.
Obviously the Rfl/ncl and barla/ pennine are being rathered pig headed on certain issues.from the way I see it year round rugby is here to stay for the foreseeable future and the sooner the Rfl sit round the table and open dialogue to find a compromise over player registrations the better ,this being the biggest problem at the moment.
Everyone has to start respecting each other regardless of whether they are supportive of winter or summer,all that matters is the game is still being played,if people truly love the sport they will carry on participating or supporting the game regardless of when it is played.

#33 South Wakefield Sharks

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 11:08 PM

Most junior sections at clubs govern themselves with their own committee & secretary, like the biggest percentage of secretaries who go to meeting they will follow what the league committee will tell them without question just like sheep.

Summer in theory is the ideal time for any sport to be played; the reality is there are far too many other distractions and this has been spoken about on here many times.

Probably 10,000 reasons why they chose to go summer and probably as many why they are talking about a move back to winter (If you check juniors do play in the winter)


What juniors play in winter? In Hull they may still play some junior rugby in winter (ie Sept-April), rest of Yorkshire - who plays in winter? Lancashire & Cumbria who plays in winter? Virtually no-one plays junior rugby league in West, South or North Yorkshire.

#34 Marauder

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 02:27 AM

What juniors play in winter? In Hull they may still play some junior rugby in winter (ie Sept-April), rest of Yorkshire - who plays in winter? Lancashire & Cumbria who plays in winter? Virtually no-one plays junior rugby league in West, South or North Yorkshire.

http://yorkshirecombinationyouth.pitchero.com/fixtures.php
Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#35 henage

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 08:38 PM

Some of you seem to be forgetting the Hull league is alive and kicking, infact outside of the NCL 1st teams only 3 other teams will be running this summer (two are NCL 2nd teams and Easts from whats going around are trying to get the third to play as their 2nds)

Holderness Vikings will not be turning out as East Hulls 2nd team,

#36 South Wakefield Sharks

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 08:48 AM

http://yorkshirecomb...om/fixtures.php


Juniors is generally regarded as U15s and below, with Youth U16s-U18s, but I'm happy to lump them all together for the sake of this debate. I see there are 15 teams listed at U16s, not only have most of them played only 5 league games or less this season but that's also a shocking number of teams.

There were at least 26 teams at U15s for Yorkshire Juniors last summer season, judging by their website. If you add in the West Riding clubs & Hull Clubs, the winter U16s should have way more than 15 teams.

That tells us one of two things - either the game is in real crisis as there are only 15 clubs with enough players to run a team at U16s, or the vast majority of clubs now that they have been given the choice to play either winter or summer at U16s have opted for summer.

I guess we'll see when the new season starts in March.

#37 tim2

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 10:39 AM

We'll probably find out tomorrow night when we have the Yorkshire Juniors AGM.

There were about 35 teams in YJL at U15s last year - I'm expecting about 25 to be in the summer U16s.

I know for a fact that some of the winter sides have been using summer club players who will be returning in March.

One interesting thing is the application by two Hull sides to enter the under 15s straight into the top division.
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#38 Marauder

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 02:30 PM

Holderness Vikings will not be turning out as East Hulls 2nd team,

Good to hear that these lads want to keep their own ID.
Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#39 old papa

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 04:39 PM

What made the NCL so strong was a game every week and the standard of those games, last summer you got the game every week.

Not sure you got this one right Marauder. The premier Division might not have been up to its usual standard but the 1st division was better then ever. Just like every thing which is new or is a change it takes some time to getting use too. Like it as been said before some clubs will take to the change better and quicker than others teams with younger players will adapt quicker with some older players not wanting the change. It remains me of when my club Milford Marlins first joined the National League in 1986 and we had a vote at our club if we should join the league all the older players voted against it but fortunately the younger players out voted them and we joined the League, most of the older players didnt play the following year. I am also not sure that the drop in standards is just a NCL thing But I Will ask you the question Marauder do you think that the Pennine League Premier Division is upto its usual standards.

Edited by old papa, 03 February 2013 - 04:40 PM.


#40 Marauder

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 07:22 PM

Not sure you got this one right Marauder. The premier Division might not have been up to its usual standard but the 1st division was better then ever. Just like every thing which is new or is a change it takes some time to getting use too. Like it as been said before some clubs will take to the change better and quicker than others teams with younger players will adapt quicker with some older players not wanting the change. It remains me of when my club Milford Marlins first joined the National League in 1986 and we had a vote at our club if we should join the league all the older players voted against it but fortunately the younger players out voted them and we joined the League, most of the older players didnt play the following year. I am also not sure that the drop in standards is just a NCL thing But I Will ask you the question Marauder do you think that the Pennine League Premier Division is upto its usual standards.

The Pennine Premier is of a good standard and every team except Queens & Dewsbury Moor have `A` teams which seems to indicate that the clubs in the division are doing something correctly.



The drop in standard last year in the NCL was obviously because of players having other commitments at most clubs, it was regulalry reported that 1st teams where having to use `A` and junior team players to prop up the first team.

Edited by Marauder, 03 February 2013 - 07:26 PM.

Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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