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The Griff, Barrow, Cumbria/Lancashire thread

cumbria or lancashire??

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#21 JohnM

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:14 PM

Ten years ago, there used to be a pub in Manchester that offered a fantastic range of cheeses in their meals. I can't trace it on Google; probably shut then.


The Royal Oak, Didsbury?

#22 Padge

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:06 PM

Thirty years ago there used to be a pub in Manchester that had knickers nailed to the ceiling. I can't be bothered to google it.

Tommy Ducks, knocked down a few years back with hardly any notice,

http://manchesterhis...tommyducks.html

Edited by Padge, 30 January 2013 - 11:09 PM.


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#23 Wolford6

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 12:00 AM

The Royal Oak, Didsbury?


Might be, but I don't recognise the picture on its website. The one that I recall had a shop-display-fridge with different cheeses at one side of the bar and I think it was a Holts pub.

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#24 Keith Nutter

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 06:34 AM

As a Barrovian I quite like the option of being to choose whether to be from Lancashire (as per my birth certificate) or Cumbria (as per my postal address). I can't get too excited about the subject to be honest but as an RL supporter it has had its advantages in the past - ie in 1983 when Barrow won both the Lancashire Cup and the Cumbria Cup within a three month period. Crazy or what LOL?

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#25 Griff

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 01:55 PM

Have a read of the Local Government Act 1972 (linked above).


I have. It talks about councils and says nothing of geography.

Which was what I said in the first place.
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#26 Griff

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 02:07 PM

In each of these Acts the word "county" is nothing more than a label for the administrative areas so defined by the Act. These "counties" have no existence beyond the narrow confines of the Acts. The Government has consistently made this clear, e.g. on 1st April 1974, upon implementation of the LGA 1972, a Government statement said:
"The new county boundaries are solely for the purpose of defining areas of ... local government. They are administrative areas, and will not alter the traditional boundaries of Counties, nor is it intended that the loyalties of people living in them will change."


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#27 Methven Hornet

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:02 PM

Tommy Ducks, knocked down a few years back with hardly any notice,

http://manchesterhis...tommyducks.html


That is fascinating, thanks very much.
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#28 Methven Hornet

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:16 PM

As a Barrovian I quite like the option of being to choose whether to be from Lancashire (as per my birth certificate) or Cumbria (as per my postal address). I can't get too excited about the subject to be honest but as an RL supporter it has had its advantages in the past - ie in 1983 when Barrow won both the Lancashire Cup and the Cumbria Cup within a three month period. Crazy or what LOL?


I must admit that I'm very much the same. I was born in Manchester, and went on to live in Middleton, Heywood, Rochdale and Milnrow before leaving for Scotland. If anyone asks were my accent is from I'll tell them either north Manchester or south-east Lancashire. If I was asked what my county of origin was, I'd probably say Lancashire (is that my age talking? perhaps some youngsters would say Greater Manchester). On the other hand I'm relaxed enough to understand the reasons for redrawing the county map.
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#29 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:24 PM

It comes under the adminstrive area of Cumbria, it was never in CUMBERLAND, and it's always been -in-Furness, Furness being a part of Lancashire.

The Admin area of Cumbria encompasses The Furness part of Lancashire, Cumberland, the major part of Westmoorland , and It may have some small parts of County Durham (although I get a nose bleed if i go too far east, hence my geoegraphy is a bit ropey over there)


cumbria has some of the old west riding of yorkshire in it also
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#30 Methven Hornet

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:35 PM

I have. It talks about councils and says nothing of geography.

Which was what I said in the first place.


I'm not sure it has to say anything of geography, but it does talk of creating new counties.

These new counties were mainly for the administration of local government, but also for ceremonial and judicial reasons. On that last point, for example, a telling section of the 1972 Act follows:-

216Adaptation of law relating to old counties.

(1)


For the purposes of commissions of the peace and the law relating to justices of the peace, magistrates’ courts, the custos rotulorum, lieutenants, sheriffs and matters connected with any of those matters, new counties shall, without prejudice to section 179(1) above, be substituted for counties of any other description.

Seems fairly definite.

Not that any of this really matters. The old counties still exist in folk memory, and I'm sure there are many people - like myself - who still identify with them. Things change, though, and if you were still wanting to base local government on a county structure in the 70s then it was plain that they needed re-jigging. And as Keith said above, the good people of Barrow-in-Furness can have two allegiances! :)
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#31 Methven Hornet

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:35 PM

cumbria has some of the old west riding of yorkshire in it also


Aye, Sedbergh.
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#32 Jonty

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:27 AM

I was born in Ulverston in 1977, lived in Dalton-in-Furness until I was 5, then Ulverston until I was 18. I consider myself Cumbrian, and historically - both culturally and ethnically, the North-of-the-Sands area has far more in common with the Lake Counties than it has with Lancashire. Barrow is a bit of an exception, as an industrial town that has seen more than it's fair share of migration over the years, with Scottish, Irish and Cornish surnames very prevalent, and that's reflected in the unique Barrovian accent.

There's no right answer, I suppose. Certainly my generation consider themselves Cumbrian, and would never think of themselves as Lancastrian. It's rare to see anyone use the address "ULVERSTON, LANCASHIRE". I've probably seen it used once or twice, unlike where I live now in Wigan, where the use of Lancashire in your address is still the norm, rather than Greater Manchester.
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#33 Methven Hornet

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 05:10 AM

I was born in Ulverston in 1977, lived in Dalton-in-Furness until I was 5, then Ulverston until I was 18. I consider myself Cumbrian, and historically - both culturally and ethnically, the North-of-the-Sands area has far more in common with the Lake Counties than it has with Lancashire. Barrow is a bit of an exception, as an industrial town that has seen more than it's fair share of migration over the years, with Scottish, Irish and Cornish surnames very prevalent, and that's reflected in the unique Barrovian accent.

There's no right answer, I suppose. Certainly my generation consider themselves Cumbrian, and would never think of themselves as Lancastrian. It's rare to see anyone use the address "ULVERSTON, LANCASHIRE". I've probably seen it used once or twice, unlike where I live now in Wigan, where the use of Lancashire in your address is still the norm, rather than Greater Manchester.


I have always wondered whether Barrovians now felt Cumbrian rather than Lancastrian, and you've perhaps gone some way to answering the question.

Postal addresses have always been a bit of a law unto themselves, the main purpose being to direct the mail to the correct sorting office rather than accurately portraying which traditional county you lived in. For example, when I lived in the town immediately north of Manchester, my address was Middleton, Manchester; If you put Middleton, Lancashire your letter would probably end up in a sorting office somewhere near Morecambe. When I moved just three miles to the next town, however, the address became Heywood, Lancs.
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#34 Griff

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 09:19 AM

Postcodes have rendered counties slightly redundant in addresses these days.
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#35 JohnM

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 09:36 AM

yet we still insist on using a full address when writing to someone, when quite often just a house number and a post code is all that is needed.

#36 D9000

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 11:40 AM

Answering the question 'why was Furness part of Lancashire':

n 1086 Furness was in Yorkshire ... http://domesdaymap.c...2878/ulverston/

That is because, in 1086, Lancashire didn't exist. It wasn't created until 1182, formed out of the Northern part of Cheshire (i.e. the land between the Mersey and the Ribble) and the parts of Yorkshire that were West of the Pennines, which included Furness. Furness thus became attached to Lancashire, because, oddly enough, when the county of Cumberland was created (out of lands taken over from Scotland) Furness was already in Yorkshire. And when Yorkshire was created Cumberland wasn't part of England ..

Confusing, isn't it?

#37 Just Browny

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 10:41 AM

North Riding, West Riding, East Riding... what is a riding?

I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.


#38 Wolford6

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 11:04 AM

North Riding, West Riding, East Riding... what is a riding?


According to Wikipedia it's derived from the Norse for "one third".

I always thought it represented one-weeks-horse-ride away from Lancashire
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#39 Griff

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 06:14 PM

yet we still insist on using a full address when writing to someone, when quite often just a house number and a post code is all that is needed.


That's a bit risky ....... should get there though.

Not recommended for anyone who may be dyslexic
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#40 Griff

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 06:15 PM

North Riding, West Riding, East Riding... what is a riding?


Tipperary has ridings too.
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