65 replies to this topic

[MrPosh]

Its also said to be the reason the club with 4 munich clocks are called SCUM.Leeds city were developing quite a good side prior to wwI.Yes they did do payments to guest players just like other clubs did and mainly man utd,but to protect the players who guested leeds refused to open their books Charlie Buchan was one of them .All clubs were guilty ,but the most guilty club got away with it again.Scum

So who's scum? Is it Leeds or is it Munich?

in that case leeds can trace there routes at least as far back by including the likes of kirkstall and leeds athletic . but of course as an actual club that would be no more the case than it would be for bradford

Tony Collins says Bradford date back to 1863 - so that will do for me.

[keighley]

Just for clarification (to Bradford fans), mine was a genuine question and not a conduit into allowing fans of other clubs to reignite that tedious debate about how-old-is-your-club. Much less was the intention to see some dreary LUFC/MUFC nonsense.

Did any other NU club defect to soccer?

Not really relevant but I think Hartlepool RU went to soccer and are today Hartlepool united.

[Padge]

Which suggests a clear unbroken line since 1863, in the same way that we can rightly claim rugby heritage before 1895 (interestingly that vote was also about 2 to 1 although the anti-broken time RFU allowed all Oxbridge colleges to vote

I remember that when Northern went bust in 1963, they came back as a new company Bradford Northern ( 1964 ) Ltd but I am happy to have the lineage date back to the 1860's.

This debate was a topic on here a good few years back, a leading Sports Historian agreed that the lineage hasn't been broken, Prof Tony Collins' opinion will do for me.

[Bulliac]

in that case leeds can trace there routes at least as far back by including the likes of kirkstall and leeds athletic . but of course as an actual club that would be no more the case than it would be for bradford

Seems reasonable. If the Bradford team can trace its origins back to the 1860s they must have been playing somebody....and a derby sounds quite tasty, to be honest!

[Bulliac]

This debate was a topic on here a good few years back, a leading Sports Historian agreed that the lineage hasn't been broken, Prof Tony Collins' opinion will do for me.

Yeah, when companies bite the dust and a new company is formed, it usually comes from the human 'spirit' surrounding the previous company, the fans, the players and people who just love the sport who band together for the common good. To be honest, it's pretty impossible to ignore this when thinking about when things "began"; rugby clubs will always be much more than 'limited companies', or grounds or names.

[Middleton Bull]

What there is, is a direct line of people back to 1863. Players have come and gone, the ground has been changed and companies have gone bust but the line of people, either as players, administrators or fans is intact and the history of the game in the city is traceable.

A bit like Bucks Fizz and the Sugababes

[Bulliac]

A bit like Bucks Fizz and the Sugababes

Lol, I guess you could put it like that!

[The Parksider]

Just for clarification (to Bradford fans), mine was a genuine question and not a conduit into allowing fans of other clubs to reignite that tedious debate about how-old-is-your-club. Much less was the intention to see some dreary LUFC/MUFC nonsense.

Did any other NU club defect to soccer?

Don't think so at least in a lock stock and barrel way. Possibly Runcorn, but the exact links would need some research

Hope you don't find this suggestion dreary tedious nonsense

[fieldofclothofgold]

So who's scum? Is it Leeds or is it Munich?
Scum is the term used by leeds for man utd dating back to the disgaceful events in 1919
How many Munich clocks are ther at Old trafford?its nice to make money out of tragedy and not do much for the victims



Tony Collins says Bradford date back to 1863 - so that will do for me.

[marklaspalmas]

Don't think so at least in a lock stock and barrel way. Possibly Runcorn, but the exact links would need some research

Hope you don't find this suggestion dreary tedious nonsense

So long as it's not so-called 'banter' about two wendyball clubs, then it's fine.

As Keighley suggested, perhaps Harlepool RU is another case. Odd then that with all the promotion/recruitment and agitating that soccer obviously did in NU strongholds from about 1900 onwards that the two reasonably big clubs who switched were both from the same city.

[gingerjon]

So who's scum? Is it Leeds or is it Munich?

It's the supporters of any club who use that term for another club and believe it is acceptable to do so.

[fieldofclothofgold]

It's the supporters of any club who use that term for another club and believe it is acceptable to do so.

well the dislike goes bak to 1919 and not without good reason,and why have 4 Munch disaster clocks?

[gingerjon]

well the dislike goes bak to 1919 and not without good reason,and why have 4 Munch disaster clocks?

How many clocks would be appropriate in the eyes of Leeds United supporters?

[Bulliac]

well the dislike goes bak to 1919 and not without good reason,and why have 4 Munch disaster clocks?

Mmm, Munch...this thread has drifted quite a bit and I'm getting ready to scream so maybe that is appropriate.

[fieldofclothofgold]

How many clocks would be appropriate in the eyes of Leeds United supporters?

well man utd have thisholier than thou thing how about looking after the victims of the crash before they market the club on the back of a disaster I.E 4 Munich clocks so Asian tourist's can get their pics taken in front. of them?
Dodgy or what?

Edited by fieldofclothofgold, 31 January 2013 - 04:07 PM.

[gingerjon]

Asian tourist's

There's a problem with Asian tourists?

[The Parksider]

Odd then that with all the promotion/recruitment and agitating that soccer obviously did in NU strongholds from about 1900 onwards that the two reasonably big clubs who switched were both from the same city.

You may miss the relationship between NU and soccer in the old days.

In the old days players were often good at both and were interchangeable.

In really old games association clubs would play rugby clubs at a half each of each game.

The fans were also just as liable to go watch the soccer as the NU.

NU clubs allowed big promo soccer games on their own grounds

Switching was rather easy - you just took a vote.

There was no entrenched culture for one game or the other

It may be when one switched in Bradford it got the others thinking - should we have done that?

Get thissen in t'Library and thy can read it as it happened.....

Edited by The Parksider, 31 January 2013 - 05:15 PM.

[marklaspalmas]

You may miss the relationship between NU and soccer in the old days.

In the old days players were often good at both and were interchangeable.

In really old games association clubs would play rugby clubs at a half each of each game.

The fans were also just as liable to go watch the soccer as the NU.

NU clubs allowed big promo soccer games on their own grounds

Switching was rather easy - you just took a vote.

There was no entrenched culture for one game or the other

It may be when one switched in Bradford it got the others thinking - should we have done that?

Get thissen in t'Library and thy can read it as it happened.....

In your desire to educate me, you've missed my point. Im well aware of how things were, having read the same books as you. My point was rather, why, given the circumstances, only two clubs, coincidentally(?) from the same city, chose to switch.

[The Parksider]

In your desire to educate me, you've missed my point. Im well aware of how things were, having read the same books as you. My point was rather, why, given the circumstances, only two clubs, coincidentally(?) from the same city, chose to switch.

I have no desire to educate you at all and I didn't read it in any books I read it from source. I read it in the newspapers of the day, and I think you missed my point. Switching was easy, the prospects in soccer better and IMHO when one went over successfully their rivals looked at the situation just across the city and thought - we'll have a go. But don't let me patronise you, as I say you can go read the same source material Delaney or Collins read and make your own mind up, you may come to a far more reasonable and accurate conclusion than me, and you won't have to go round asking others..

[Trojan]

You may miss the relationship between NU and soccer in the old days.

In the old days players were often good at both and were interchangeable.

In really old games association clubs would play rugby clubs at a half each of each game.

The fans were also just as liable to go watch the soccer as the NU.

NU clubs allowed big promo soccer games on their own grounds

Switching was rather easy - you just took a vote.

There was no entrenched culture for one game or the other

It may be when one switched in Bradford it got the others thinking - should we have done that?

Get thissen in t'Library and thy can read it as it happened.....

Didn't a soccer club try to sign Jim Sullivan from Wigan - I'm sure I read that somewhere.
BTW weren't Blackheath RU founder members of the FA?