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Squad For Sunday


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#121 kiln7

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 07:44 PM

well i have had my say on this subject so i will say cheerio and good bye.

#122 mark richardson

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 07:47 PM

You asked about our heritage and community projects
Those are the answers
Do you really think if we came on your forum asking how do you afford hardman saxton etc on your crowds we would receive a friendly reception? . That I'd agree with you calling me silly because I dont bow down and say your point is hugely valid?
I've said all along I dont have the answers but I'm prepared to keep an open mind. Its not like we've signed thackeray dowes and calderwood is it? Looking outward and inward theres so much stuff going on...who can say one club is better than another? One club is law abiding and one isn't.
You're very lucky to be a fev fan. What would happen if it goes #### up? Would you stand by your club or would you slate it?
Good luck to you too. You no doubt will be champs again. So its all good.

#123 fester

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 10:07 PM

We will be there the blue white army up the town

#124 Bryce

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 10:38 PM

So Gaz, say when the licence's are announced in 2014-15 or whenever it is and your lucky Fev numbers come up (genuinely wishing you luck with that). And then you get rid of 70-90% of your squad for tried and trusted SL players. You would refuse to go and watch games?

As I've posted on another thread, if a player is good enough for SL they will sign for an SL club. They wouldn't give Fev, Swinton, fax, Workington etc etc another thought.

#125 thundergaz

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 12:15 AM

So Gaz, say when the licence's are announced in 2014-15 or whenever it is and your lucky Fev numbers come up (genuinely wishing you luck with that). And then you get rid of 70-90% of your squad for tried and trusted SL players. You would refuse to go and watch games?

As I've posted on another thread, if a player is good enough for SL they will sign for an SL club. They wouldn't give Fev, Swinton, fax, Workington etc etc another thought.


That scenario is totally different to the one your club is facing bryce.The players that come in if we do get rid of any of our players that is.because I think if our players were full time they would do a good job for us in SL anyway. But back to the answer to your question. If we did bring in SL players they would be signed on by my club and they would be Fev rovers players not wigans, Leeds, wires etc. I've got nothing against swinton bryce as I've stated before in previous posts. I do how ever care for teams in the champ and the champ competition itself. I don't want any club to be dictated to by the so called bigger clubs of our sport or the RFL for that matter. I understand your club may be facing really tough times at the minute but do you really think this route is the answer to your problems? Do you honestly think Warrington or the RFL care about swinton lions? I'm only saying this because I do care just because I don't support swinton lions doesn't mean I don't care about the club or any other champ club for that matter. My club as been in a lot worse of a state than your club is in at the moment. and us fans did everything we could to stop the merger/ us being a feeder club etc and look where we are now. Ok we're not in SL but we are the best we can be at this moment in time. That's just my opinion though bryce whether I am right or wrong.

#126 Bryce

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 01:05 AM

That's fair enough Gaz. I do wish we had such resources as yourselves, Leigh, Fax and Sheffield but we just don't. I won't be surprised if other teams at the lower end of the cc go down a similar route with dr players, and they will have more players signed onto their respective clubs than Swinton do now.

Agecroft is our only hope and has been for a long time. Championship survival is vital to achieve our return to M27 and if it means dr players from Warrington for 2013 then so be it. I can't see us having broken any rules, played the sytem, yes.

#127 marshy1

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 01:29 AM

Yes you are having a go, just as one or two others. Fact is can anyone tell me which rule the Lions have broke......well perhaps none so all you lot who don't like it....... Bugga off.even SL teams take players on loan.....don't they.

#128 thundergaz

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 03:32 AM

Yes you are having a go, just as one or two others. Fact is can anyone tell me which rule the Lions have broke......well perhaps none so all you lot who don't like it....... Bugga off.even SL teams take players on loan.....don't they.


Where have I ever stated you were breaking the rules? Where have I ever stated I was having ago? Bryce didn't see my post in the way you are insinuating it does. He gave back a decent response. I will admit I don't like the system marshy but that's not because you have x amount of Warrington players in your squad. It's because I see this system going down the merger/ feeder club route in the not so distant future and I would hate to see any champ club go down that route. I agree I might be wrong marshy but I just think its a slippery slope that you might not be able to climb back up.

#129 PhillH

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 06:57 AM

I can only say this Phil. ..you drifted off to Leigh for a few seasons. I remember you still came on the swinton forum.
I think you are pretty unique in that respect.
I fail to see the relevance of your campaigning . We've all done our bit. Some of it financially or in others.
Look at people like riggy, spelly, barbara, , martin, paul Davison. I am yet to see them mention there unsung and free efforts of time money and inspiration.
If you were one of our diplomats I wonder did you get it all wrong?
Who knows how this will pan out? Ive asked this question and I don't know the answer. So many hate filled people seem to instantly be experts.
I approach it with an open mind. Many of us with just as big a stake holding as you both financially and spiritually will too.
I tell you again that if you think you are the only person who believes that a return to m27 is imperative and a firm local backing and background essential than you are misguided and misunderstand so many of the arguments put to you by me and many others.


What a lot of posts there have been on this topic whilst I've been away from the forum for just over 24 hours!

Yes I gave my support to Leigh, in fact I've always watched both sides when I can. Leigh isn't my home town but it is the place I spent all my school hours from the age of 4 to 18 inclusive. The Chief Exec and Coach are people I know and greatly respect. Its also the place I was introduced to RL.

So you're spot on that I'll probably "drift off" there again, although given the home ground is the same venue that's perhaps not the best turn of phrase. Please allow me a little time to explain the reasons why.

If I truly believed I was the only person to rate a return to M27 as imperative, I would also recognise there would be no point spending a minute debating it on here. That comment is silly. If we are going to have a reasoned debate you need to at least be fair minded and not prejudiced. Of course its about a lot more people than just me. Including by the way a very significant number of people that never come near this forum, nor been near Swinton Lions for many years either.

One of the most relevant things from the campaigning was the opportunity to talk to various people from all sorts of roles across the community and get an insight into how they perceive the club. What really struck home was the way in which the things people said went well beyond pure nostalgia. These were people of serious influence today in all the local high schools, some of the primary schools, amateur sports groups, NHS, Salford Leisure that run the Fit City centres, Salford University...etc. Consistently the line was an expression of loss and frustration that Swinton Lions was no longer a part of the community, not just in the context of reminiscent memories about various things that used to happen in the Station Road era and no longer do, but also things happening now and in the future that a professional rugby league club proactive in the community could help them with. These were tangible things, with a real impact on young people especially.

We embodied what can be done with the Performing Arts Showcase, consisted of kids doing various bits of music and dance at Park Lane in partnership with Swinton High School and facilitated by teachers plus volunteers. Doesn't sound much but it was a great success and a genuine win-win outcome. Lots of people went to the ground that day that otherwise wouldn't have even known there was a match on. But the best outcome of all was talking both at the game and afterwards to the kids and teachers about what they had got out of the experience - the evidence of which was clear from smiles and excitement. If that's irrelevant then the cause really is lost.

As you correctly observe I'm far from the world's best diplomat. I don't seek popularity. Neither do I seek power. But there are causes I believe in. Sometimes a cause needs someone prepared to challenge the status quo without any longing for personal advancement, and that's what I sought to do. The message to the MP at the time (now the Mayor), Leader and Deputy Leader of the Council was simple - "Why aren't YOU guys doing anything about this clear longing in the heart of the community you are supposed to represent?". Backed by the observation that future generations would miss out, if they weren't prepared to act.

That whole dialog was also very relevant. as it revealed some of the reasons why the land lay in the way it did. There was a lot of negativity towards Swinton Lions, driven by dented egos, noses put out of joint by Malcolm White inparticular and mismanagement of Swinton Lions in general. Tellingly, the focus wasn't on the feelings of the COMMUNITY, a massive problem being that key players weren't looking beyond their upset at past actions of rogues. They weren't looking at what was best for the area, they were focussed instead on relative pettyness.

So the conclusion has to be that things don't need to be like that. Getting Swinton Lions back into the community is achievable. Whats needed to achieve it is political will, focus on the right things and hard work. There is no good reason why Swinton Lions cannot ultimately be just as good a club as Featherstone, Leigh, Halifax etc. The community contains a big number of people that still miss the club to this day and would enjoy backing Swinton Lions once again, if only the club was made relevant to them.

To this end, having given it a massive amount of thought, I've concluded its important Swinton Lions don't succeed by going down this route of pushing the limits of partnership with Warrington so far that the identity of the team is damaged. Without a doubt I would hate for other Championship clubs to feel oblidged to follow suit in order to compete, as the end result of that would be complete annihilation of the semi pro game in this country. I value the semi pro game and want it to thrive. Sadly the current evidence is that Paul Kidd et al are more interested in rubbing shoulders with the Super League fraternity than they are in knuckling down to the hard and relatively unglamourous work that is needed to address the real things holding back both Swinton Lions and aspects of life in the community whose name the club continues to bear. So I find it hard to give their regime my backing any longer.

I don't have those problems when handing over admission money to Leigh Centurians. At least doing that my support for the game won't be lost entirely.

And yes, I may still visit the forum. Reason being that I would still like to see a Swinton Lions club based in the community and benefitting the community. That's the same reason why I visited the forum but not Gigg Lane for a few years - the two things were incompatible to the point that Malcolm White's Chairmanship ending was a prerequisite for any progress. So to me it made sense to do what I could to speed up that process. Equally I now hope this link with Warrington fails, otherwise I suspect the Lions will probably end up playing at Halliwell Jones and that will be that.
Rugby League - great game, shame about the administration.

#130 PhillH

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 07:04 AM

P.S. I agree Dave expresses himself better than I, but we are both passionate Swinton Lions supporters of many years standing and both have expressed heart felt upset at the way this link up is being embarked on.

That really OUGHT to ring some alarm bells very loudly.
Rugby League - great game, shame about the administration.

#131 PhillH

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 08:02 AM

You asked about our heritage and community projects
Those are the answers
Do you really think if we came on your forum asking how do you afford hardman saxton etc on your crowds we would receive a friendly reception? . That I'd agree with you calling me silly because I dont bow down and say your point is hugely valid?
I've said all along I dont have the answers but I'm prepared to keep an open mind. Its not like we've signed thackeray dowes and calderwood is it? Looking outward and inward theres so much stuff going on...who can say one club is better than another? One club is law abiding and one isn't.
You're very lucky to be a fev fan. What would happen if it goes #### up? Would you stand by your club or would you slate it?
Good luck to you too. You no doubt will be champs again. So its all good.


There is an important factor to note - the projects you have highlighted have been driven and facilitated by volunteers drawn from the support base, not by the club itself.

This is quite telling on a few levels. It goes to show; the community still misses its club; the support base has a lot of talent and ability within it, and; there's no evidence from work of the club itself available for you to highlight. Says a lot.
Rugby League - great game, shame about the administration.

#132 Bryce

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 09:46 AM

If we all stopped going Phill, it would definitely be the end of Swinton Lions. We go to support our club of 147 years and counting. We go for the hope of a return to M27. As you know, it's possible, and as long as it is possible, I'll watch the Lions.

#133 PhillH

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 10:14 AM

If we all stopped going Phill, it would definitely be the end of Swinton Lions. We go to support our club of 147 years and counting. We go for the hope of a return to M27. As you know, it's possible, and as long as it is possible, I'll watch the Lions.


I just cannot find it within myself to give backing to this totally cynical and very damaging way of trying to undercut other clubs in the league by prostituting the club as a glorified reserve side for Warrington, no matter how successful that team proves to be. Its just wrong. No more Swinton matches for me unless the situation changes. Very very sad day on a personal level, but c'est la vie.
Rugby League - great game, shame about the administration.

#134 duffymoon

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 10:37 AM

I will be attending today maybe someone will present a realistic argument for me to attend again.Otherwise it will be my last game as well,I feel exactly the same as Phil about the arrangement.

#135 marshy1

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 10:46 AM

Your entitled to your opinion Phil. Fact is the majority of those Warrington players are signed on for a seasons loan,making them very much Swinton players.
I hope you enjoy Leigh and look forward to seeing you on Good Friday.

#136 mark richardson

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 11:08 AM

Interstingly Dewsbury have signed Karl Pryce
I wonder if they're "cheating."
One thing I've been considering in all this is that we have not signed anyone directly from super league like this ie a regular first teamer.
The two main detracting sets of fans in this discussion are from Workington and Featherstone. ..who both have.
Why is signing youngsters and giving them a go worse than signing journey men mercenaries?
Just a question. ...

#137 duffymoon

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 11:37 AM

Mark nobody has mentioned cheating.I just think we are now setti g a precedent for clubs below Super League to become fully fledged feeder clubs allowing Championship clubs to field a large majority of players affiliated to another club.Why weren't the players signed as DRs three weeks ago not announced as permanent deals until a couple of days ago to me as a means of allowing the three established SL players to be included. if this is the future for clubs below Super League then I don't want to be involved in it to be honest.Fully respect other fans views who just want to see the best players in a Swinton shirt .


#138 seatontown

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 11:45 AM

just a quick one whos paying the wages ?

#139 marshy1

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 11:53 AM

Had Swinton signed loan players from a number of clubd, would this discussion arose.?
It seems to me the fact we have taken a number of players from one club that is causing the issues for some.

#140 marshy1

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 11:53 AM

Had Swinton signed loan players from a number of clubs,would this discussion arose.?
It seems to me the fact we have taken a number of players from one club that is causing the issues for some.




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