99 replies to this topic

[Padge]

don't agree to any of the dr option wot about the lads who train with your team busting a gut trying to earn a starting spot only to find out that a so called sl frindge player gets his starting place just because he needs game time ???? its all wrong

So you take out the 5 DR players and the club needs to replace them with 5 quality players to top up the squad. Those 5 players you bring in then push out the lads who train with your team busting a gut to earn a starting spot only to find the club has spent money it doesn't have on players to keep you out. So they are then in exactly the same situation, except the club has a bigger wage bill.

[Derwent]

No team can turn out 11 DR players though can they so your scenario is just nonsense.

But that's exactly the point - Swinton have found a way around that which means they can field 11 Wire players. Of course, technically the original 6 are now registered as Swinton's own players so they will still only be fielding 5 DR players. Do you believe that these 6 players have given up full time SL contracts to go part time at Swinton ? Do you believe that Swinton are paying their contracts ? Do you believe Wire have no further interest in their development ? Do you believe Swinton could sell any of these players ?

[Terry Mullaney]

But that's exactly the point - Swinton have found a way around that which means they can field 11 Wire players. Of course, technically the original 6 are now registered as Swinton's own players so they will still only be fielding 5 DR players. Do you believe that these 6 players have given up full time SL contracts to go part time at Swinton ? Do you believe that Swinton are paying their contracts ? Do you believe Wire have no further interest in their development ? Do you believe Swinton could sell any of these players ?

But that's exactly the point - Swinton have found a way around that which means they can field 11 Wire players. Of course, technically the original 6 are now registered as Swinton's own players so they will still only be fielding 5 DR players. Do you believe that these 6 players have given up full time SL contracts to go part time at Swinton ? Do you believe that Swinton are paying their contracts ? Do you believe Wire have no further interest in their development ? Do you believe Swinton could sell any of these players ?

Exactly. It's not rocket science is it?

[Terry Mullaney]

No team can turn out 11 DR players though can they so your scenario is just nonsense.

No, it isn't nonsense. I know full well that only 5 DR players are allowed but Warrington and Swinton have flaunted the rule to enable as many as 11 to play. That's the point if you care to think about it.

[Padge]

But that's exactly the point - Swinton have found a way around that which means they can field 11 Wire players. Of course, technically the original 6 are now registered as Swinton's own players so they will still only be fielding 5 DR players. Do you believe that these 6 players have given up full time SL contracts to go part time at Swinton ? Do you believe that Swinton are paying their contracts ? Do you believe Wire have no further interest in their development ? Do you believe Swinton could sell any of these players ?

Swinton have signed 6 players they are no longer dual reg, they are Swinton players.

[Derwent]

Swinton have signed 6 players they are no longer dual reg, they are Swinton players.

I already said that. But I notice you failed to answer any of the questions which speaks volumes. Furthermore, leaving the Championship issues aside, this system is wide open to salary cap abuse by SL clubs which I'm surprised you're not concerned about. A SL club can now use Championship clubs as a holding area for players by registering them with the Championship club and using their salary cap as an extension to their own.

[gazza77]

don't agree to any of the dr option wot about the lads who train with your team busting a gut trying to earn a starting spot only to find out that a so called sl frindge player gets his starting place just because he needs game time ???? its all wrong

Doesn't really seem to apply here though does it, as Swinton don't appear to have signed enough players to put a team out without Warrington's assistance. Wrong imo but that's now within the rules.

[intheshed]

I really can't see the problem here. Don't we want to see the best rugby league players playing, and don't we as fans of a club, want to watch the best team our club can put out?

If Wigan wanted to send Sam Tomkins to Wakey for a month's loan, I wouldn't be moaning about team morale, that's what the coach gets paid for. I'd just be chuffed that a player like Sam Tomkins (rather than Richie Mathers - no offence!) would be playing full-back for my team.

The problem, as I see it, isn't the presence of players like Wood & McCarthy more the almost certain lack of consistency of their availability. If we were talking about a series of exhibition games I might take your point about simply seeing the 'best available' players, but we are talking about a professional league. I can't see that it doesn't undermine the competition if one week Swinton borrow players of the quality and experience of Wood & McCarthy then in a couple of weeks, having got them match fit, they borrow a couple of 20 yr olds with no 1st team experience who aren't good enough to make Wire's squad.

On your Tomkins analogy, would you still be comfortable if Tomkins hadn't played a game for 4 months, was only available 1 week at a time until he was fully fit and Wakey were under instruction that he could only play 40 mins in the initial game?

Edited by intheshed, 02 February 2013 - 11:25 AM.

[Keith T]

Swinton in last weeks RL Express had a squad of 17 players which did not include any of the six young players from Warrington that they stated were signed as dual registered players. Fans on their own website were saying that they couldn't afford to sign many players because they are trying to get their own ground at Agecroft.

Suddenly, the announce a 19 mansquad for this week which includes the six young players plus 3 more from Warrington (Woods, McCarthy & Laithwaite) and say that these 3 are dual registered players. It is then stated that the six young players are now fully signed on by Swinton thereby freeing up the places for another 5 dual registered players to be brought in.

I don't think anyone needs a rocket science degree to see what is happening and it is a means of getting round this new system that has never looked safe because of a lack of thought and rules until late on. These six players are in anyone's book "loanees" as they will end up back on Warrington's books at the end of the season. They can't be called "loanees" because the Championship clubs in these partnerships can only play 5 DR players or 5 loanees or a combination of DR or loan players up to 5 in any one matchday 17 players.

Other clubs take players on 12 month loans or sign players on 12 month contracts but not all from the same club and certainly not from the same club that they are partnered with. If all the clubs that have a partnership with a SL club do the same thing as Swinton and Warrington have done then the feeder club system is well established and the game will lose many fans, like myself who just don't want any part of being just a reserve team for others.

[Terry Mullaney]

Swinton in last weeks RL Express had a squad of 17 players which did not include any of the six young players from Warrington that they stated were signed as dual registered players. Fans on their own website were saying that they couldn't afford to sign many players because they are trying to get their own ground at Agecroft.

Suddenly, the announce a 19 mansquad for this week which includes the six young players plus 3 more from Warrington (Woods, McCarthy & Laithwaite) and say that these 3 are dual registered players. It is then stated that the six young players are now fully signed on by Swinton thereby freeing up the places for another 5 dual registered players to be brought in.

I don't think anyone needs a rocket science degree to see what is happening and it is a means of getting round this new system that has never looked safe because of a lack of thought and rules until late on. These six players are in anyone's book "loanees" as they will end up back on Warrington's books at the end of the season. They can't be called "loanees" because the Championship clubs in these partnerships can only play 5 DR players or 5 loanees or a combination of DR or loan players up to 5 in any one matchday 17 players.

Other clubs take players on 12 month loans or sign players on 12 month contracts but not all from the same club and certainly not from the same club that they are partnered with. If all the clubs that have a partnership with a SL club do the same thing as Swinton and Warrington have done then the feeder club system is well established and the game will lose many fans, like myself who just don't want any part of being just a reserve team for others.

Lack of respect for the credibility of the Championship Keith and both clubs are guilty. It will be interesting to see what develops from this. Will the RFL choose to step in and close down the loop holes???

[shaun mc]

Its taken my club 10 seasons of graft to get to a higher level this season.
There are signs that this could all be unravelled by the madness of the DR system.
The situation at Swinton could mean that clubs overspend to be able to compete with Warrington reserves.
The RFL will be spending more time monitoring the Championship salary cap than the SL one.

[Blind side johnny]

What evidence does anyone have that the players concerned are still "on Warrington's books" as is being claimed?

This would be in clear breach of all regulations and wouldn't take the RFL more than 5 minutes to uncover so would simply be a stupid move on behalf of both clubs. The salary cap regulations, amongst others prevent such sleights of hand, surely?

[haven marra]

What evidence does anyone have that the players concerned are still "on Warrington's books" as is being claimed?

This would be in clear breach of all regulations and wouldn't take the RFL more than 5 minutes to uncover so would simply be a stupid move on behalf of both clubs. The salary cap regulations, amongst others prevent such sleights of hand, surely?

Why would 2 cumbrian players who live in cumbria sign for Swinton when all 3 cumbrian clubs would sign them ????
Not rocket science is it

[shaun mc]

http://www.warringto....org/first-team

Looks like Ormsby, Bridge, Mendieka and Riley are in the First Team squad at Warrington, not Swinton?

On Swintons website the only DR players are Wood, McCarthy and Laithwaite. Ormsby, Bridge, Mendieka and Riley are described as new signings at Swinton.

Which club are those 4 signed for?

[Keith T]

Swinton have signed 6 players they are no longer dual reg, they are Swinton players.

One of the six, maybe more, signed a 3 year contract with Warrington in November!!! Don't you think that strange that they are now "officially" Swinton players?

[Griff]

Looks like that all went well, then ........

14-10 Workington.

[Derwent]

Paul Wood was absolutely rubbish today. Maybe he didn't want to be there ?

[Griff]

Paul Wood was absolutely rubbish today. Maybe he didn't want to be there ?

Summat to factor in - yes.

[Dave T]

I've wondered before with these DR's whether they will have a negative impact on the players being sent out to other clubs.

Paul Wood has worked hard at Warrington and has had a 1 club career - that may be important to some people, and now he has been forced to go and play for Swinton (no disrespect to them intended).

[Griff]

Certainly hope so - then these arrangements will end.