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Worrying SL score margins


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#201 Dave T

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 07:56 PM

Couple of genuine questions, how were the crowds, viewing figures and press coverage.

I still regularly speak to people who are not that interested in some regular rounds for some reason.

#202 Padge

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 08:00 PM

Couple of genuine questions, how were the crowds, viewing figures and press coverage.

I still regularly speak to people who are not that interested in some regular rounds for some reason.

That's the same for all sports, soccer has more interest for title deciders and cup semi-finals than for mid season mid table "clashes".

 

Pick any sport and there will be a mid season doldrums, except county cricket where it starts at the first game and continues until the last.



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#203 Dave T

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 08:08 PM

That's the same for all sports, soccer has more interest for title deciders and cup semi-finals than for mid season mid table "clashes".

Pick any sport and there will be a mid season doldrums, except county cricket where it starts at the first game and continues until the last.

i was asking a question that cant really be answered tbh as itd be good to know the trends over the past few years but as you regularly point out there are so many variables it is nigh on impossible to definitively answer them.

plenty of people I know have changed their view of the comp in the last few years.

#204 Padge

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 08:16 PM

i was asking a question that cant really be answered tbh as itd be good to know the trends over the past few years but as you regularly point out there are so many variables it is nigh on impossible to definitively answer them.

plenty of people I know have changed their view of the comp in the last few years.

Nobody I talk to sees it as any different, at least nobody has expressed an opinion to me that its worse than last year*, previous 5*, 10*, 15* years, pre SL*,

 

*Delete as appropriate.

 

Because there is a bunch of whingers from 10% of the none SL support being vocal on here doesn't mean that the silent majority of the other 90% aren't happy.

 

The RFL are in danger of reacting to a few loud mouths on the tail end being allowed to wag the dog.



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#205 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 09:24 PM

As a fan of a yoyo club, licensing undoubtedly leads to less meaningful games at the bottom of Super League and as a result there is less excitement and interest around the games. With relegation on offer, from the very first game you are conscious of the absolute necessity to pick up points and if you're in a battle every game is nerve wracking as is listening to the results of other teams. This doesn't happen every year but it's very rare that for at least half a season there is this need.

This year since about round 13, the playoffs has been an unrealistic proposition for Widnes and a host of other clubs. Going the rugby is enjoyable but a bad defeat is met by annoyance rather than upset and a win is enjoyable but not nearly the joy it would be (barring 12 man wins over rivals). The atmosphere at games reflects this. Oddly, expectations are higher. Whereas staying up might have been a good achievement this year, fans aren't happy with the level of improvement and pre-Thursday there was a great deal of negativity around the club.

However, the relegation argument doesn't trump all others. There are a lot of reasons against bringing it back.

The 3x8 for instance will undoubtedly create a great many more meaningful games for the middle 8 especially but IMO has huge flaws as a concept overall and the balance for me would be easily to not bring it in.

There is no perfect solution; personally I think there is a need for some form of P&R again. Licensing was a brave move but it can create staleness and I think this year has started to see some of the flaws come to the fore. We've seen a sudden drop in attendance and I think licensing should take some blame for this. The games aren't as urgent and it does seem a little like groundhog year with the same clubs at the bottom.

#206 RSN

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 09:34 PM

So hang on, by your theory, during the P&R period no fixtures were affected by rain????


I don't have a theory.

The point was you can't select a sole weekend of wet fixtures and claim that the competition is competitive due to them being close, no matter the structure of the competition.

If you read back through the thread I don't support the OP, but I don't think a weekend of wet fixtures are a good measure of how competitive the competition is.

#207 Padge

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 09:41 PM

I don't have a theory.

The point was you can't select a sole weekend of wet fixtures and claim that the competition is competitive due to them being close, no matter the structure of the competition.

If you read back through the thread I don't support the OP, but I don't think a weekend of wet fixtures are a good measure of how competitive the competition is.

But, every wet weekend we should have close games, every dry weekend we should have run-away games. Have you evidence to back this up.



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#208 RSN

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 10:03 PM

But, every wet weekend we should have close games, every dry weekend we should have run-away games. Have you any evidence to back this up.


I didn't state that dry games lead to run away games, I don't even see how I implied it. All I said was that when the weather is wet the games are usually closer, as less tries are scored due to errors made.

I don't have access to my laptop so don't have any access to any real data. Off the top of my head and a read of a few match reports the 3 lowest scoring games in SL are:

Crusaders 0 - 4 St Helens
Salford 5 - 2 Harlequins
Salford 0 - 7 Bradford

All these games were wet. 1 prior to licensing 2 after it. But that's not the point I am making. Would you argue that wet weather doesn't lead to closer games?

#209 Dave T

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 11:00 PM

Nobody I talk to sees it as any different, at least nobody has expressed an opinion to me that its worse than last year*, previous 5*, 10*, 15* years, pre SL*,

 

*Delete as appropriate.

 

Because there is a bunch of whingers from 10% of the none SL support being vocal on here doesn't mean that the silent majority of the other 90% aren't happy.

 

The RFL are in danger of reacting to a few loud mouths on the tail end being allowed to wag the dog.

Well that's fine, but people I speak to, including family members, who support Warrington and Saints, have both expressed that they aren't massive fans of the current system and they do pick and choose games. It is no longer a massive deal to them of they miss games. I don't agree with them, but their views, and plenty of similar views from Warrington fans on the other board and the rather steep decline in crowds does suggest that there may be an issue here.

 

Your third line is quite disrespectful tbh Padge, just because there are views that you disagree with they shouldn't be dismissed as being by whingers, especially as the people I am talking about don't fit into the category that you have pigeon-holed them into.

 

If you have proof that the majority do not back the return of P&R then fair enough, but I don't think you could.


Edited by Dave T, 18 August 2013 - 11:09 PM.


#210 Dave T

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 11:04 PM

As a fan of a yoyo club, licensing undoubtedly leads to less meaningful games at the bottom of Super League and as a result there is less excitement and interest around the games. With relegation on offer, from the very first game you are conscious of the absolute necessity to pick up points and if you're in a battle every game is nerve wracking as is listening to the results of other teams. This doesn't happen every year but it's very rare that for at least half a season there is this need.

This year since about round 13, the playoffs has been an unrealistic proposition for Widnes and a host of other clubs. Going the rugby is enjoyable but a bad defeat is met by annoyance rather than upset and a win is enjoyable but not nearly the joy it would be (barring 12 man wins over rivals). The atmosphere at games reflects this. Oddly, expectations are higher. Whereas staying up might have been a good achievement this year, fans aren't happy with the level of improvement and pre-Thursday there was a great deal of negativity around the club.

However, the relegation argument doesn't trump all others. There are a lot of reasons against bringing it back.

The 3x8 for instance will undoubtedly create a great many more meaningful games for the middle 8 especially but IMO has huge flaws as a concept overall and the balance for me would be easily to not bring it in.

There is no perfect solution; personally I think there is a need for some form of P&R again. Licensing was a brave move but it can create staleness and I think this year has started to see some of the flaws come to the fore. We've seen a sudden drop in attendance and I think licensing should take some blame for this. The games aren't as urgent and it does seem a little like groundhog year with the same clubs at the bottom.

Would agree with much of this, I'd be happy to see 3x8 being given a go, but I think there is so much negativity around it before it even starts then it could be a loser, so I'd vote for a straight 12/12 with 1 up and down.

 

Originally i was a fan of the 8 team playoff, but the fact that we will probably go back to a top 5/6 system (or even straight semis after the 2nd phase) makes me happy. The urgency around finishing top or even 2nd isn't really there. We could finish 4th, go to Hudds and win and then end up with a nice home tie in the semi final for a place in the GF.



#211 keighley

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 11:23 PM

I didn't state that dry games lead to run away games, I don't even see how I implied it. All I said was that when the weather is wet the games are usually closer, as less tries are scored due to errors made.

I don't have access to my laptop so don't have any access to any real data. Off the top of my head and a read of a few match reports the 3 lowest scoring games in SL are:

Crusaders 0 - 4 St Helens
Salford 5 - 2 Harlequins
Salford 0 - 7 Bradford

All these games were wet. 1 prior to licensing 2 after it. But that's not the point I am making. Would you argue that wet weather doesn't lead to closer games?

 

 

 

It's swings and roundabouts. More tries are scored in wet weather due to the mistakes made as well as some not being scored due to mistakes made.



#212 The Parksider

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 05:19 AM

Because there is a bunch of whingers from 10% of the none SL support being vocal on here doesn't mean that the silent majority of the other 90% aren't happy.

 

The RFL are in danger of reacting to a few loud mouths on the tail end being allowed to wag the dog.

 

Not sure what you mean here. The "loud mouths" are shurely not the few on here who (understandably) want P & R because they'd like to see their club get a shot in SL from time to time?

 

20ish people out of what? 150,000 RL fans??

 

Do you mean the chairmen who bankroll the failing SL clubs? That's who I see as the tail wagging the dog as they moan and whinge and keep threatening to "stand down" about the cost of keeping their clubs in SL.

 

However I'm not sure this is the tail Padge, it's more like half the dog......



#213 JohnM

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 06:19 AM

Is the new structure coming in in 2014,then?

#214 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 07:59 PM

Is the new structure coming in in 2014,then?


I think it is Feb 2015 isnt it?

#215 JohnM

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 08:23 AM

Yes, if it actually happens. Its all gone quiet but maybe people are on hols. It's just that all across the forum, some seem to be acting as if teh changes well be next season



#216 Viking Warrior

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 11:40 AM

The Wigan score was inevitable, Leeds score not so much of a blow out. You just wait until Sunday and Broncos 60 point win over Widnes.


some posts just come back to haunt certain people...........
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#217 redjonn

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 05:03 PM

Does 68 to 4 or.... 56 to 14... do these count as blowouts.... two recent results in NRL.

 

No doubts the NRL is much stronger than superleague but you do get big defeats there too.  Plus the points gaps between the top of the table and the bottom isn't much different that superleague.

 

As I say no doubts the NRL is much stronger but the league outcomes are not much different.  Although you do get more teams winning the grand finals.



#218 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 06:23 PM

Yes, if it actually happens. Its all gone quiet but maybe people are on hols. It's just that all across the forum, some seem to be acting as if teh changes well be next season


I think that might be because next season is perceived as a positioning season and in a way is just as important as the year when the changes come into force. So for example, SL clubs will be desperate to finish in the top 11 or 12 ( depending on Toulouse) and ambitious clubs in the second tier will need to finish in the top 7 or 8 depending if two or three clubs are dropped from SL, 4 are dropped from tier 2, and 2 clubs come up from the third tier.




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