Jump to content


Rugby League World - Grand Finals Issue

RUGBY LEAGUE WORLD - THE GRAND FINALS ISSUE - OUT 17 OCT OR DOWNLOAD IT NOW!
Try our Fantastic 4-Issue Bundle Offer:
For just £14, a saving of 10% on the regular cover price, you’ll get:

The Grand Finals Issue (out 17 Oct) – Grand Final drama from both hemispheres plus Four Nations preview
The Four Nations Issue (out 21 Nov) – Fantastic coverage of the Four Nations tournament down under
The Golden Boot Issue (out 19 Dec) – A look back at the 2014 season plus the big reveal of the winner of the Golden Boot
The 2015 Season Preview Issue (out 23 Jan) – How will your team perform in 2015? We preview every club.


League Express

Podcast

Photo
- - - - -

Kylie Leuluai and Richard Moore in Hunslets squad to face Leigh on sunday.


  • Please log in to reply
83 replies to this topic

#61 The Parksider

The Parksider
  • Coach
  • 17,326 posts

Posted 08 February 2013 - 01:59 PM

If I understand your last phrase..........

Another way of looking at this is : Are the top clubs in SL looking to create a barrier to SL entry by stacking Swinton, Dewsbury and Hunslet with SL squad players so that they block the likes of Fev and Halifax from winning the Championship and the NR Cup, thereby not being able to apply for SL?


I think we all love a conspiracy theory Shaun.

I think SL clubs would love to cement their positions in SL forever, and would welcome obtaining the resources of their local CC clubs for themselves. Wigan would probably like a couple of thousand more fans and the LSV as their second team home, with the kids from Leigh miners and rangers all busting a gut to play for Wigan one day.

Leeds are well on the way to securing SLS as their second team ground, the locals mainly watch Leeds and the best kids bust a gut to play for Leeds, McShane was educated a drop kick from both Parkside and SLS.

An intentional ploy to keep Leigh, Fev and Fax out?

I should not think so Leigh and Fax suffer from the size of their local rivals. Featherstone are a different kettle of fish, but if they could become the big club the (Lower)Calder area needs then I'm sure SL would want them to get on with it ASAP.

#62 The Parksider

The Parksider
  • Coach
  • 17,326 posts

Posted 08 February 2013 - 02:01 PM

Because I grew up there and I know. They will go to Burnley football before they go to Osdsal. The town will be lost to RL if the Cougars die.


We've heard this for years that RL will die if the local championship club goes under.

They said all the Rugby fans in east hull would go to Hull City if there was no HKR.

The old men may not be able to change their ways but Bradford Bulls will be loking to the new generations of fans in keighley and guess what - you DON'T know any of them.......

The reality is that Leeds captured the south Leeds market, and cosying up to Hunslet will complete the process.

Edited by The Parksider, 08 February 2013 - 02:03 PM.


#63 a.n Other

a.n Other
  • Coach
  • 1,548 posts

Posted 08 February 2013 - 02:10 PM

An intentional ploy to keep Leigh, Fev and Fax out?

I should not think so Leigh and Fax suffer from the size of their local rivals. Featherstone are a different kettle of fish, but if they could become the big club the (Lower)Calder area needs then I'm sure SL would want them to get on with it ASAP.

The area of Calderdale is more than big enough for Fax not to be bothered about Huddersfield or Bradford.

Whether or not they do anything to try and attract people to watch the games in their numbers, is a different matter.

#64 keighley

keighley
  • Coach
  • 5,587 posts

Posted 08 February 2013 - 02:34 PM

We've heard this for years that RL will die if the local championship club goes under.

They said all the Rugby fans in east hull would go to Hull City if there was no HKR.

The old men may not be able to change their ways but Bradford Bulls will be loking to the new generations of fans in keighley and guess what - you DON'T know any of them.......

The reality is that Leeds captured the south Leeds market, and cosying up to Hunslet will complete the process.


News flash. There are very few new generations of RL fans in Keighley. The last time Keighley attracted the youth, the future fans was in the Cougarmania era. Hunslet, I can't speak for because I don't know. Keighley is a depressed town. There is not a lot of money kicking around. Any fans, young or old, who are there are not likely to spend the money to get to Bradford, pay SL admission prices, nevermind that there is an antipathy to all things Bradford from politics to sport within the town.

#65 Johnoco

Johnoco
  • Coach
  • 20,102 posts

Posted 08 February 2013 - 02:43 PM

So what explains the fairly high number of Keighley people who go to Bradford City? They won't pay SL prices but they will pay football prices?

#66 Blackpool Hawk

Blackpool Hawk
  • Coach
  • 5,487 posts

Posted 08 February 2013 - 02:46 PM

We've heard this for years that RL will die if the local championship club goes under.

They said all the Rugby fans in east hull would go to Hull City if there was no HKR.

The old men may not be able to change their ways but Bradford Bulls will be loking to the new generations of fans in keighley and guess what - you DON'T know any of them.......

The reality is that Leeds captured the south Leeds market, and cosying up to Hunslet will complete the process.


Come on Phil, They dont need to cosy with us or parter with us secure the South Leeds market, they secured this along time ago, i tell you the year 1999! That year basically killed any chance of Hunslet regaining South Leeds as its own, i remember the years from 1995 to 1999 well, we were on the crest of a wave, a bit like Fev are now, we won two league titles and played at Wembley, we were averaging nearly 2000 supporters a game (more than we get in 5 games now), we had ex GB international in our team, were brining through great youngsters like Richard Baker Jamie Thackray etc, we had a player pathway, you would see people in the clubs and pubs, walking around South Leeds in Hunslet tops.The day the RFL blocked us, that was it. Thats the year South Leeds was lost to Hunslet forever.

And its the same issue which has pushed 90% of Championship clubs into these dual reg partnerships, what is it, its simple, A CLOSED SHOP FOR SUPER LEAGUE.

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

"Nihil sine Deo" "We've Swept The Seas Before Boys, & So We Shall Again" "More than a club"


#67 keighley

keighley
  • Coach
  • 5,587 posts

Posted 08 February 2013 - 03:07 PM

So what explains the fairly high number of Keighley people who go to Bradford City? They won't pay SL prices but they will pay football prices?


Do you have any figures on that and i mean for league games not the massive public interest League Cup games.

#68 Johnoco

Johnoco
  • Coach
  • 20,102 posts

Posted 08 February 2013 - 03:20 PM

Do you have any figures on that and i mean for league games not the massive public interest League Cup games.

Of course not but there are quite a few that go regardless of the current cup run. And even then I bet a fair few are going to Wembley.

#69 South Wakefield Sharks

South Wakefield Sharks
  • Coach
  • 2,213 posts

Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:14 AM

Thanks for that. The attempt to play Leuluai and Moore is clearly using Hunslet as an "A" team.

What I am unsure about is just how far this can go and whether it can affect the independent clubs.

Powell and Aston were worried about such as Hunslet having a couple of SL players in their ranks on the cheap, but I don't think Hunslet will be any threat to Featherstone or Sheffield in that situation.

The situation that could evolve is the maximisation of SL players by such as Leeds into the Hunslet team.

The cap is a constraint as is the number of players Leeds could release to play for Hunslet.

But the day that "A" teams start beating independant ambitious teams will be a significant one. But can this happen?

It may be these "A" teams remain cannon fodder for Rovers and Eagles in which you can go on to sit on the shoulder of SL until they let you in. But if they end up blocking the queue for SL???


There is an argument that with the bottom clubs in the championship having access to some super league fringe players, they will provide better competition to the likes of Fev, Fax & Sheffield and therefore actually make those clubs better prepared for super league.

It's a pretty grim opinion of the tops clubs in the championship if people really think that over the course of a season they couldn't compete very well against some of the bottom clubs, simply because they have access to some super league fringe players on a week by week basis.

#70 deluded pom?

deluded pom?
  • Coach
  • 8,577 posts

Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:20 AM

There is an argument that with the bottom clubs in the championship having access to some super league fringe players, they will provide better competition to the likes of Fev, Fax & Sheffield and therefore actually make those clubs better prepared for super league.

It's a pretty grim opinion of the tops clubs in the championship if people really think that over the course of a season they couldn't compete very well against some of the bottom clubs, simply because they have access to some super league fringe players on a week by week basis.


It might not be at the top where the problems arise. Maybe a team will be relegated who previously wouldn't deserve to go down because of the use of established SL players to help win games against other relegation rivals.

Edited by deluded pom?, 10 February 2013 - 09:21 AM.

rldfsignature.jpg


#71 South Wakefield Sharks

South Wakefield Sharks
  • Coach
  • 2,213 posts

Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:32 AM

It might not be at the top where the problems arise. Maybe a team will be relegated who previously wouldn't deserve to go down because of the use of established SL players to help win games against other relegation rivals.


But isn't that the same for all clubs? All those who think they might get relegated, could (if they choose) link with a SL club, and then it's up to them to do a good deal with their SL link. Those who get the best deals will do best, same as those championship clubs who recruit best generally, or have the best links with their local community clubs will tend to do better.

If I were a Hunslet or Gloucester fan, I'd be well chuffed that my club had linked with Leeds, probably the best club in the game. If I were a Doncaster fan, I'd be less excited about the link with Wakey, might get one or two half-decent fringe players, but unlikely to get anything else that will help shape Doncaster as a club for years to come.

#72 deluded pom?

deluded pom?
  • Coach
  • 8,577 posts

Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:39 AM

But isn't that the same for all clubs? All those who think they might get relegated, could (if they choose) link with a SL club, and then it's up to them to do a good deal with their SL link. Those who get the best deals will do best, same as those championship clubs who recruit best generally, or have the best links with their local community clubs will tend to do better.

If I were a Hunslet or Gloucester fan, I'd be well chuffed that my club had linked with Leeds, probably the best club in the game. If I were a Doncaster fan, I'd be less excited about the link with Wakey, might get one or two half-decent fringe players, but unlikely to get anything else that will help shape Doncaster as a club for years to come.


SL teams can only link with one CC club so once the "best club in the game" have made a link then it's only an inferior team after that. So what you are saying is that it's all about getting your link sorted sooner rather than later so you get best dibs on a SL club. Congrats to Hunslet. The link ups have been abused so IMO it doesn't matter who you link up with the integrity of the CC has been compromised.

rldfsignature.jpg


#73 South Wakefield Sharks

South Wakefield Sharks
  • Coach
  • 2,213 posts

Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:58 AM

SL teams can only link with one CC club so once the "best club in the game" have made a link then it's only an inferior team after that. So what you are saying is that it's all about getting your link sorted sooner rather than later so you get best dibs on a SL club. Congrats to Hunslet. The link ups have been abused so IMO it doesn't matter who you link up with the integrity of the CC has been compromised.


Certainly an element of first come, first served for sure, and location has an impact too. But these things work in lots of different ways. For example Dewsbury have benefited for many years by picking up lads from Wakey who can't quite make the grade at SL level, whereas Workington & Whitehaven have had access to lots of quality Cumbrian players, because it's not worth it for them to travel to other championships clubs.

I'm pretty sure we'll still see the best clubs at the top and the worst clubs down the bottom, come the end of the season.

#74 deluded pom?

deluded pom?
  • Coach
  • 8,577 posts

Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:03 AM

I'm pretty sure we'll still see the best clubs at the top and the worst clubs down the bottom, come the end of the season.


Time will tell.

rldfsignature.jpg


#75 The Parksider

The Parksider
  • Coach
  • 17,326 posts

Posted 10 February 2013 - 12:03 PM

Time will tell.


The common purpose of the move is to prevent relegation from the Championship to the third tier where the fixture list will be (with respect) unattractive to what fans clubs will have left, and gates for such as Hunslet could end up averaging under 200 and then that would be that for the club.

So many of the tie up clubs are looking downwards or over their shoulders. The ones looking to SL were worried dual reg that went too far would knock them off their perch where they are waiting for a chance to get in SL.

The idea stronger CC clubs will better prepare top CC clubs for SL is a non starter. It's a semi pro/"A" team league.

The tie ups in Leeds Bradford and Wakefield look to me like one hope is the SL club will start to draw fans from their tie up areas. If your a family in Donny trying RL for the first time at the keepmoat, you may after realising Donny are just a junior partner to wakefield decide to go for Superleague...

Leeds already chase all the RL fans in south leeds and get most of them. There are several thousand people in Doncaster who have in the past paid to watch RL when the Dons were doing well, Wakefeld would love to get them coming up the donny Road. Bradford already park the season ticket bus in Batley. Now it'll start parking up in Dewsbury as well.

#76 keighley

keighley
  • Coach
  • 5,587 posts

Posted 10 February 2013 - 03:24 PM

The common purpose of the move is to prevent relegation from the Championship to the third tier where the fixture list will be (with respect) unattractive to what fans clubs will have left, and gates for such as Hunslet could end up averaging under 200 and then that would be that for the club.

So many of the tie up clubs are looking downwards or over their shoulders. The ones looking to SL were worried dual reg that went too far would knock them off their perch where they are waiting for a chance to get in SL.

The idea stronger CC clubs will better prepare top CC clubs for SL is a non starter. It's a semi pro/"A" team league.

The tie ups in Leeds Bradford and Wakefield look to me like one hope is the SL club will start to draw fans from their tie up areas. If your a family in Donny trying RL for the first time at the keepmoat, you may after realising Donny are just a junior partner to wakefield decide to go for Superleague...

Leeds already chase all the RL fans in south leeds and get most of them. There are several thousand people in Doncaster who have in the past paid to watch RL when the Dons were doing well, Wakefeld would love to get them coming up the donny Road. Bradford already park the season ticket bus in Batley. Now it'll start parking up in Dewsbury as well.


If Dewsbury have 1500 fans and Bradford hoover up 1,000 of them, causing the death of Dewsbury and the loss of 500 fans to RL, and if this scenario is repeated at many of the other A team towns, this is a net loss for the game of RL for the sake of 500 new fans at the Bulls.

All for the good of the game though.

#77 South Wakefield Sharks

South Wakefield Sharks
  • Coach
  • 2,213 posts

Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:10 PM

Dual reg players didn't seem to do much good for Hunslet this afternoon did they?

#78 keighley

keighley
  • Coach
  • 5,587 posts

Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:13 PM

But isn't that the same for all clubs? All those who think they might get relegated, could (if they choose) link with a SL club, and then it's up to them to do a good deal with their SL link. Those who get the best deals will do best, same as those championship clubs who recruit best generally, or have the best links with their local community clubs will tend to do better.

If I were a Hunslet or Gloucester fan, I'd be well chuffed that my club had linked with Leeds, probably the best club in the game. If I were a Doncaster fan, I'd be less excited about the link with Wakey, might get one or two half-decent fringe players, but unlikely to get anything else that will help shape Doncaster as a club for years to come.


Didn't work out too well for Hunslet today. Maybe there was no teamwork or team spirit or much effort from downsized SL prospects.

#79 The Parksider

The Parksider
  • Coach
  • 17,326 posts

Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:49 PM

If Dewsbury have 1500 fans and Bradford hoover up 1,000 of them, causing the death of Dewsbury and the loss of 500 fans to RL, and if this scenario is repeated at many of the other A team towns, this is a net loss for the game of RL for the sake of 500 new fans at the Bulls.

All for the good of the game though.


Gobbledygook.

If the level of paying support is 151,000 and they are all spread through 14 SL clubs you'd have 14 SL clubs self sustaining and in profit.

Take the clubs with 7,000 fans whose clubs lose £500,000 a year or clubs with 800 fans who go nowhere decade after decade.

Only clubs in profit can grow.

#80 deluded pom?

deluded pom?
  • Coach
  • 8,577 posts

Posted 11 February 2013 - 06:38 AM

Gobbledygook.

If the level of paying support is 151,000 and they are all spread through 14 SL clubs you'd have 14 SL clubs self sustaining and in profit.


What would happen then is the SC would be raised so the SL clubs would then need to generate even more money and inevitably some of them would not be making a profit if indeed they all would with those figures anyway.

rldfsignature.jpg