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Italy and Argentina's development in RU show just how short sighted the people that run our sport are.


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#1 The Daddy_merged

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 04:45 PM

Several years ago in union circles Italy were not even in the 5/6 Nations and in the first few years of their participation they got pasted and didn't even win a single game........last weekend they defeated France for the second time and are slowly developing into a competitive team and forsee in the next few years further improvement.
Argentina likewise, there was a big debate about whether they should join the top southern hemisphere Rugby Championship competition but that has turned out to be a success.

The point being made here is that after 1 or 2 years of England playing France and Wales mid season in the pinnacle of summer it has been thrown out and replaced with a bogus international team called Exiles. Now I'm not against this concept but it shouldn't be placed above proper international football.
Why can't we stick to playing these teams, allow them to develop and get pasted until they reach England's level? Yes it'll take time but it's the only way we'll get more competitive international teams by giving them more exposure.

They did play against England at the end of last season but that was only to replace NZ and Aus, I'd like to see this comp played mid season and give it 5 years and we'll see France start to get level and Wales a few years after. Generally in international rugby league we need to have the smaller teams playing the big three more often to aid their development.

I can't see why PNG can't play NZ & Aus in a Tri nations down under, possibly including Fiji, our administrators need to be braver and more positive with our sport.

#2 Johnoco

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 04:49 PM

They put the games on offer - blame the fans for not backing International RL. They can come up with umpteen ideas but until the fan mentality in RL changes its an uphill struggle.

#3 sweaty craiq

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 04:53 PM

They attract cash, we attract ridicule. Ridicule doesn't finance expansion. You need a cash backer to cover losses as you enhance the games appeal, not paying speccies who are not guaranteed to attend.

#4 The Daddy_merged

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 04:56 PM

They put the games on offer - blame the fans for not backing International RL. They can come up with umpteen ideas but until the fan mentality in RL changes its an uphill struggle.


Don't agree, there's hardly been any difference between attendances Vs France and Wales compared to Exiles games.

#5 Johnoco

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:04 PM

Don't agree, there's hardly been any difference between attendances Vs France and Wales compared to Exiles games.

None of which are anything to write home about. Vicious circle: games aren't deemed important, fans don't turn out. Players get disheartened and games aren't as fiery as they might be....fans say 'told you it was rubbish'. Etc etc

#6 Matt J

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:05 PM

Argentina & Italy both have good structures in RU... France and, mainly, Wales are still building.

Cummins Out.


#7 dhw

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:11 PM

They put the games on offer - blame the fans for not backing International RL. They can come up with umpteen ideas but until the fan mentality in RL changes its an uphill struggle.

+1

#8 Northern Sol

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:42 PM

Italy have been playing rugby union since before WW2, Argentina probably have been as well.

Hardly comparable to a handful of years in the case of Wales though you might have a point with France.

#9 Viking Warrior

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:47 PM

i've said it many times if we had the administrators union have then we would have a global game. unfortunately the people who run our game treat it like a parochial past time instead of the great sport it is.................
"Why is Napoleon crying ?" said one sailor to the other, "poor ###### thinks he's being exiled to st helens" came the reply.



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#10 Northern Sol

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:50 PM

One of the reasons why Italy/Argentina now compete is that many players are playing in the French Elite 15 competition


People forget that Italy won their first six nations game 33-20 (or thereabouts) against the reigning grand slam champions (Scotland).

#11 Johnoco

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:00 PM

i've said it many times if we had the administrators union have then we would have a global game. unfortunately the people who run our game treat it like a parochial past time instead of the great sport it is.................

What do you mean? Its a lot of the fans who have the parochial outlook and refuse to attend games or have a list of excuses not to go. Even the greatest administrator would struggle against some RL fans.

#12 The Daddy_merged

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:19 PM

What do you mean? Its a lot of the fans who have the parochial outlook and refuse to attend games or have a list of excuses not to go. Even the greatest administrator would struggle against some RL fans.


The first few years of the Heineken Cup was a commercial disaster with attendances below expectations but it's the persistence and continuity which has turned it into a major sporting event.

#13 longboard

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:45 PM

Several years ago in union circles Italy were not even in the 5/6 Nations and in the first few years of their participation they got pasted and didn't even win a single game........last weekend they defeated France for the second time and are slowly developing into a competitive team and forsee in the next few years further improvement.
Argentina likewise, there was a big debate about whether they should join the top southern hemisphere Rugby Championship competition but that has turned out to be a success.

The point being made here is that after 1 or 2 years of England playing France and Wales mid season in the pinnacle of summer it has been thrown out and replaced with a bogus international team called Exiles. Now I'm not against this concept but it shouldn't be placed above proper international football.
Why can't we stick to playing these teams, allow them to develop and get pasted until they reach England's level? Yes it'll take time but it's the only way we'll get more competitive international teams by giving them more exposure.

They did play against England at the end of last season but that was only to replace NZ and Aus, I'd like to see this comp played mid season and give it 5 years and we'll see France start to get level and Wales a few years after. Generally in international rugby league we need to have the smaller teams playing the big three more often to aid their development.

I can't see why PNG can't play NZ & Aus in a Tri nations down under, possibly including Fiji, our administrators need to be braver and more positive with our sport.


RU has been played in Argentina since 1873. They first played the B&I Lions in 1910! It has taken a long time for them to get a place in one of the annual competitions and it has followed opportunities for Argentinian players to play professionally in other countries. I'm not sure this template is relevant to RL having a limited international game.

#14 Johnoco

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 07:03 PM

The first few years of the Heineken Cup was a commercial disaster with attendances below expectations but it's the persistence and continuity which has turned it into a major sporting event.

It wasn't that bad. And besides the fans soon started backing the event - this just doesn't happen in RL.

#15 Lounge Room Lizard

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 07:16 PM

The administration of the International scene is a shocking disgrace in Rugby League. When you compare the IRB and the RLIF for example its frankly embarrassing to say we even have an international federation. Union also has the advantage of decades of the sport being played in Italy, Russia, Argentina, USA, Portugal etc and have pushed millions in to the development there. Rugby League has not the money or infrastructure to develop the game. Its only really down to individuals that the game got going in many nations. The RLIF and RLEF had no plans to start the game in Serbia, Germany, Italy, Russia, Czech Republic, Netherlands, Sweden etc. And most of the work in them nations is done by volunteers not by officials that get paid.

#16 Johnoco

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 07:22 PM

Its not all RL's fault that there was little development in those countries - there was the matter of the RU ban to contend with. RL as a game is not, and never has been rich so they can't afford to finance European development. RU hasn't spread that much if you are honest, certainly not with 100 years of banning RL to help it along either.

#17 longboard

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 07:22 PM

The administration of the International scene is a shocking disgrace in Rugby League. When you compare the IRB and the RLIF for example its frankly embarrassing to say we even have an international federation. Union also has the advantage of decades of the sport being played in Italy, Russia, Argentina, USA, Portugal etc and have pushed millions in to the development there. Rugby League has not the money or infrastructure to develop the game. Its only really down to individuals that the game got going in many nations. The RLIF and RLEF had no plans to start the game in Serbia, Germany, Italy, Russia, Czech Republic, Netherlands, Sweden etc. And most of the work in them nations is done by volunteers not by officials that get paid.


Lizard, will you be going to the Italy VS Tonga game at The Shay?

#18 brooza

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 07:26 PM

Why can't we stick to playing these teams, allow them to develop and get pasted until they reach England's level? Yes it'll take time but it's the only way we'll get more competitive international teams by giving them more exposure.

Isn't this part of the reason the Knights were formed?
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#19 slowdive

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 07:26 PM

I was speaking to someone two weeks ago who needed to get in touch with the RFL a while ago for a particular reason. He got absolutely nowhere and ended up giving up and going elsewhere to get what he needed. Reflected very poorly on the RFL because frankly it was in their interest to be a bit accomodating.
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#20 slowdive

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 07:33 PM

It wasn't that bad. And besides the fans soon started backing the event - this just doesn't happen in RL.

I think the Magic Weekend is worth sticking with, especially now it's in Manchester. I reckon it's a slow burner, but will come good in the end. Which just goes to show that the RFL are capable of coming up with some good, innovative ideas. Problem is for me it always seems a bit sporadic. Every so often they come up with something really good, a bit like the Rugby League of Extraordinary which was spot on but it's not sustained.
Not sure the RFU are any great shakes. Things like the however many nations competition has been going for ages, they've not had to do much to keep that one going.
"At times to be silent is to lie. You will win because you have enough brute force. But you will not convince. For to convince you need to persuade. And in order to persuade you would need what you lack: Reason and Right."




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