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RL RESPONSE TO SWINTON DR ENQUIRY


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20 replies to this topic

#1 duffymoon

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:23 PM

Thank you for your correspondence regarding the Swinton and Warrington partnership however all activity, which has been fully disclosed by the clubs to, is within the current regulations. As with all regulations the RFL will monitor, review and, if necessary, adapt things moving forward. With the RFL concentrating on four strands of the sport i.e. international, full time, semi-professional and community, a constant consideration is how a change to one will affect the other. At all times we wish to find the right balance on these matters and clearly want to have thriving clubs and competitions.

Picking up on your specific point I can confirm six Warrington players have recently transferred to Swinton, all of whom were ineligible to play in this season’s U19s competition due to being in the U21 and U20 age categories. Having taken the view point they were not going to play many, if any, games in the first team in 2013 all six players have agreed to the transfer arrangements and their new employment contract with Swinton Lions RLFC. These players are now not registered or contracted with Warrington Wolves and therefore do not count towards the regulation regarding only allowing 5 loan and/or dual registered players in any matchday 17.

The 6 players in question are:
· J Morrison
· J Mendeika
· J Burke
· R Shaw
· G Ormsby
· G Riley

I can confirm none of these players had a contract with Warrington until the end of 2015, as annual extension clauses which are in favour of the club do not guarantee the player employment. Using an example, if the contract is for 1 year with annual options in the clubs favour to extend this on an annual basis for a further 2 years; it could be viewed as a 3 year deal when it is actually a 1 year deal with 2 years of options. Many contracts for young players are put in this way and if the player in the example contract was underperforming then it would be likely the club would not take up the option and player would be without a contract after 12 months.

The players permission is essential in all of this and shouldn’t be forgotten. Even if a club wants a player (back or otherwise) it is still the decision of the player to sign the playing contract put forward. With this in mind, even if Warrington wanted to resign one of these players at the end of the Swinton contract, the player is free to refuse this and sign with another club.

11 of the 13 British Super League clubs have a formal partnership with 14 clubs in the Championships in 2013. Having a good majority of clubs involved in such partnership arrangements shows the regulation is meeting a need within the clubs, both Super League and Championships. If there to be any regulation changes in the sport these will be made at the end of 2013.

I hope this response helps in some way and I will ensure my colleague Ralph Rimmer is across this correspondence.

Kind Regards


Chris Thair
Salary Cap and Licencing Manager

#2 Terry Mullaney

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:55 PM

Significantly theres no comment on which section of the game instigated the partnerships and the reasons why. Tells us virtually nothing we didn't already know.
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#3 shun

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:11 PM

The 6 players in question are:
· J Morrison
· J Mendeika
· J Burke
· R Shaw
· G Ormsby
· G Riley


so swinton pay these players wages? and are officially swinton players?

Edited by shun, 08 February 2013 - 11:12 PM.


#4 shaun mc

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:21 PM

Only recently Tony smith was praising his young players after their Boxing Day win v Widnes. He described how they had benefitted from 12 months of full-time training.
Now they've been demoted to 2/3 nights per week at Swinton. Are they now job-hunting to make their wages up? Surely Swinton pay very little contract money on gates of 5-600 and mostly match day payments only. What are they doing the rest of the week?
Or have Wire given Briers, Hodgson & Morley et al a pay rise and realise they are over the salary cap?

#5 Michael Bates

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:43 PM

Not completely on topic but how can someone called Ralph Rimmer ever be taken seriously?

#6 JohnM

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 02:45 PM

especially by someone who presumably was Master Bates before he became Mister Bates. :)

#7 Just Browny

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 03:03 PM

Not completely on topic but how can someone called Ralph Rimmer ever be taken seriously?


Were your other 175 posts as good as this one?

I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.


#8 Dave T

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 08:12 PM

Only recently Tony smith was praising his young players after their Boxing Day win v Widnes. He described how they had benefitted from 12 months of full-time training.
Now they've been demoted to 2/3 nights per week at Swinton. Are they now job-hunting to make their wages up? Surely Swinton pay very little contract money on gates of 5-600 and mostly match day payments only. What are they doing the rest of the week?
Or have Wire given Briers, Hodgson & Morley et al a pay rise and realise they are over the salary cap?

Isn't the core salary cap for the first 25 players only? None of these players were in that from memory.

#9 intheshed

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 12:07 PM

Thank you for your correspondence regarding the Swinton and Warrington partnership however all activity, which has been fully disclosed by the clubs to, is within the current regulations. As with all regulations the RFL will monitor, review and, if necessary, adapt things moving forward. With the RFL concentrating on four strands of the sport i.e. international, full time, semi-professional and community, a constant consideration is how a change to one will affect the other. At all times we wish to find the right balance on these matters and clearly want to have thriving clubs and competitions.

Picking up on your specific point I can confirm six Warrington players have recently transferred to Swinton, all of whom were ineligible to play in this season’s U19s competition due to being in the U21 and U20 age categories. Having taken the view point they were not going to play many, if any, games in the first team in 2013 all six players have agreed to the transfer arrangements and their new employment contract with Swinton Lions RLFC. These players are now not registered or contracted with Warrington Wolves and therefore do not count towards the regulation regarding only allowing 5 loan and/or dual registered players in any matchday 17.

The 6 players in question are:
· J Morrison
· J Mendeika
· J Burke
· R Shaw
· G Ormsby
· G Riley

I can confirm none of these players had a contract with Warrington until the end of 2015, as annual extension clauses which are in favour of the club do not guarantee the player employment. Using an example, if the contract is for 1 year with annual options in the clubs favour to extend this on an annual basis for a further 2 years; it could be viewed as a 3 year deal when it is actually a 1 year deal with 2 years of options. Many contracts for young players are put in this way and if the player in the example contract was underperforming then it would be likely the club would not take up the option and player would be without a contract after 12 months.

The players permission is essential in all of this and shouldn’t be forgotten. Even if a club wants a player (back or otherwise) it is still the decision of the player to sign the playing contract put forward. With this in mind, even if Warrington wanted to resign one of these players at the end of the Swinton contract, the player is free to refuse this and sign with another club.

11 of the 13 British Super League clubs have a formal partnership with 14 clubs in the Championships in 2013. Having a good majority of clubs involved in such partnership arrangements shows the regulation is meeting a need within the clubs, both Super League and Championships. If there to be any regulation changes in the sport these will be made at the end of 2013.

I hope this response helps in some way and I will ensure my colleague Ralph Rimmer is across this correspondence.

Kind Regards


Chris Thair
Salary Cap and Licencing Manager


Hmm, Mr Thair seems adept at using many words to say very little, he'll go far.

There are some questions which, depending on the answers, could help to dispel the perception that there is something not quite right about these transfers. Which other clubs were they offered to? If they were released without obligation neither party could have objected to, or had the power to prevent, the players negotiating which any club they wished. Was or will any payment be made by Warrington, either directly or through Swinton, in respect of the termination of their contracts.

I'm confused as to the relevance of Mr Thair's explanation of contracts with options in the clubs' favour. So far as I'm aware that is not an uncommon occurance in sport generally so it seems logical to assume it exists widely in RL also but he's surely not trying to suggest these options can be excercised a couple of weeks before the season starts!!! Leaving aside the obvious unfairness of allowing a club to hold a player throughout the off season when they could find another club only release them as the season starts, when budgets have been spent, it would also be inconsistent with deadline for similar decisions about contract offers which typically require decisions and offers(or releases) to be made by the final round of regular season games.

#10 sweaty craiq

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 01:01 PM

So these lads no longer train with Wire? and another club could come to 'buy' them?? - yah, and pigs fly!!!

#11 intheshed

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 01:10 PM

So these lads no longer train with Wire? and another club could come to 'buy' them?? - yah, and pigs fly!!!


Taking part in a training or conditioning programme of a club your not registered with contravenes the operational rules, so you'd hope not for the sake of all parties.

#12 Keith T

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 02:00 PM

I got a vey similar response from the RFL but when I asked questions that some posters are asking now about who pays these players? Could other clubs have approached them to sign? I got the response t.hat they could not talk about players contracts!!

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#13 Bleep1673

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 02:05 PM

Taking part in a training or conditioning programme of a club your not registered with contravenes the operational rules, so you'd hope not for the sake of all parties.

So how do triallists train with a club before he signs for them then?
Or Free Agents?

Edited by Bleep1673, 10 February 2013 - 02:05 PM.

Swinton RLFC est 1866 - Supplying England with players when most of your clubs were in nappies

#14 intheshed

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 02:21 PM

So how do triallists train with a club before he signs for them then?
Or Free Agents?


I imagine they sign short term or trialist agreements, I am merely taking the RFL at their word:



A Club shall not allow a Player to take part in any Club training or conditioning programme
or to play for it in a Match, unless that Player is on its Club Register or unless the Club and
Player are party to a Dual Registration arrangement. Clubs may apply to the RFL for
permission for a Player to take part in Club training or conditioning prior to registration,
which may be granted on the terms and conditions set out by the RFL. Any Club who plays
or trains an unregistered Player shall be guilty of misconduct.


From http://www.therfl.co...s section C.pdf

In pulling up that link, further to Keth T's post re answers from the RFL I also notice this from the same document:



No later than 7th December in each year each Club shall notify the Board of the names of its
Contract Expired Players. The Board shall circulate the names of all contract expired Players
to all Clubs


So, if as Mr Thair's response seems to imply, we are being told that these players contracts simply came to an end with Warrington they will presumably be able to confirm that they were on this list even if they can't divulge individual details??

#15 keighley

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 02:44 PM

It dosn't seem to pass the smell test, does it?.

#16 intheshed

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 05:38 PM

I assume the James Mendeika London Broncos say the have signed on a 5 week loan from Warrington is not the same James Mendeika referred to in the opening post of this thread??



#17 Blind side johnny

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 05:58 PM

I got a vey similar response from the RFL but when I asked questions that some posters are asking now about who pays these players? Could other clubs have approached them to sign? I got the response t.hat they could not talk about players contracts!!

 

 

If I read it correctly it states that none of the players has any contract with Warrington. Hence they cannot make any payments to them after their earlier contracts expired.


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#18 Celtic Rooster

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 06:21 PM

Swinton signed Kash Watkins from Eccles ARLFC last season and he scored in the friendly against Crusaders pre - season but I haven't seen him figure in the team since then. Does this mean he is now surplus to requirements and we can have him back?



#19 Spidey

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 06:32 PM

If he's only signed Terms and Conditions (ie pay a you play) and not a contract he can play for Eccles still

#20 LordCharles

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 06:54 PM

I assume the James Mendeika London Broncos say the have signed on a 5 week loan from Warrington is not the same James Mendeika referred to in the opening post of this thread??

 

It is.............but I am sure there is a perfectly reasonable explanation, just ask Mr Thair.






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