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Online Petition


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#21 terrywebbisgod

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 11:10 AM

Like the use of the word MORE.So Super League hasn't eradicated the problem then.

No,and i don't think you can blame SL for clubs going bust,it was happening before the advent of SL.
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#22 bimbo101

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 11:16 AM

No,and i don't think you can blame SL for clubs going bust,it was happening before the advent of SL.

But one of the reasons behind abandoning P&R was to stop clubs going bust but it hasn't worked.

#23 bimbo101

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 11:19 AM

No,and i don't think you can blame SL for clubs going bust,it was happening before the advent of SL.

And so was getting hammered by the Aussies which a full time Super League was supposed to address but it's never got close.

#24 terrywebbisgod

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 11:20 AM

But one of the reasons behind abandoning P&R was to stop clubs going bust but it hasn't worked.

So reinstating P&R would?
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#25 Griff

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 11:31 AM

I think that the only divisions in professional football with no strings attached P&R are Leagues One and Two. (Tier 3 and 4 on the pyramid).


You think wrong. Several clubs have either been refused or gone into panic improvement mode to get from tier 5 to tier 4.

Further down the leagues, some team in the Northern Counties East League got relegated last season, despite winning their division, because their facilities weren't good enough.
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#26 bimbo101

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 11:36 AM

So reinstating P&R would?

Probably not but abandoning P&R hasn't stopped it either and it's morally wrong to deny a team and it's followers a chance of playing in the top flight when they've earned the right by winning their Championship.

#27 terrywebbisgod

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 11:38 AM

Probably not but abandoning P&R hasn't stopped it either and it's morally wrong to deny a team and it's followers a chance of playing in the top flight when they've earned the right by winning their Championship.

Even if they become a yo-yo club,with no stability either financially or player wise?
Founder of the convent pontoon team.

#28 JohnM

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 11:40 AM

Like the use of the word MORE.So Super League hasn't eradicated the problem then.


nope, but it sure has improved the situation. ever since 1895 our code has been littered with financial failures. ..just like those codes that do have single-season, purely results based p and r. Anyone who was aroung in the late 60s and 70s will testify t the parlous state of our game then compared with now. The petition merely demands a return to those days.

#29 Griff

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 11:58 AM

Probably not but abandoning P&R hasn't stopped it either and it's morally wrong to deny a team and it's followers a chance of playing in the top flight when they've earned the right by winning their Championship.


Obviously "going bust" and "p + r" are separate issues ......
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#30 Red Willow

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:38 PM

Many posters have said clubs have gone "bust"

The recent examples of Bradford and Salford didn't go bust, they were rescued.

The interesting question for me is would those rescues have happened if both clubs didn't have a licence for the next 2 years allowing the new owners time to build the clubs back up.

I don't think we will ever stop sports clubs in general having financial problems (it happens in all sports) but are we as a sport better placed to rescue the situation?

#31 gingerjon

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:19 PM

You think wrong. Several clubs have either been refused or gone into panic improvement mode to get from tier 5 to tier 4.

Further down the leagues, some team in the Northern Counties East League got relegated last season, despite winning their division, because their facilities weren't good enough.


I was right then! The only no strings I'm aware of remains from 4 to 3.
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#32 bimbo101

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:24 PM

Many posters have said clubs have gone "bust"

The recent examples of Bradford and Salford didn't go bust, they were rescued.

The interesting question for me is would those rescues have happened if both clubs didn't have a licence for the next 2 years allowing the new owners time to build the clubs back up.

I don't think we will ever stop sports clubs in general having financial problems (it happens in all sports) but are we as a sport better placed to rescue the situation?

If they didn't go bust,why would they need rescuing?

#33 Methven Hornet

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:38 PM

I was right then! The only no strings I'm aware of remains from 4 to 3.


I'm pretty sure you are right! To get into the Football League a club has to satisfy certain criteria, and I know that a club going into the Championship has to eventually remove terracing, but there are no additional requirements for a club moving from League Two to League One (ie, tier 4 to 3).
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#34 terrywebbisgod

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:39 PM

Many posters have said clubs have gone "bust"

The recent examples of Bradford and Salford didn't go bust, they were rescued.

The interesting question for me is would those rescues have happened if both clubs didn't have a licence for the next 2 years allowing the new owners time to build the clubs back up.

I don't think we will ever stop sports clubs in general having financial problems (it happens in all sports) but are we as a sport better placed to rescue the situation?

Sorry,"financial difficulties"
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#35 Methven Hornet

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:40 PM

Why not just sign Andy Burnhams existing petition?


I think it died a slow, lingering death, with many duplicate signatures. It will be interesting to see if this one will allow a person to sign it twice (it seems to the same platform as Andy Burnham's).
"There are now more pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs."

#36 Dave T

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:59 PM

So let me get this straight - the petition is to get the RFL to 'consider' bringing back P&R - not actually a request for them to bring back P&R.

Haven't the RFL already suggested that they will be reviewing the structures (Andy Gatcliffe certainly stated they will be) - job done!

#37 Methven Hornet

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 02:01 PM

In all the other major sports in the UK, football, cricket, rugby union, promotion and relegation exists successfully, so why has it been taken away from rugby league?


I think it is wrong to speak of p&r existing successfully in these sports on a UK-wide basis. Perhaps rugby union clubs can be promoted to the elite level in England, but not so in Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland. In those countries the professional clubs are regional entities in a tier above the club game. You'll never see Stirling County, Ebbw Vale or Belfast Harlequins playing in the Heineken Cup or the Celtic League (or whatever it is called now).

Similarly in football (soccer). In Northern Ireland football is divided between senior and intermediate, and movement between the two tiers is not automatic. In Scotland the SFL is a virtual closed shop, and entry can only happen when an existing club keels over and dies (or they decide to expand).

In cricket, in England and Wales, the only promotion towards the top end of the game is within the existing, full-time professional County Championship. That is a bit like splitting the Super League in rugby into two divisions of 7 and having p&r between the two. There is no way that they are going to introduce p&r into/out of first class cricket eg Cumberland will never win promotion from the Minor Counties Championship to the County Championship by performances on the pitch.
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#38 Griff

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 02:10 PM

I was right then! The only no strings I'm aware of remains from 4 to 3.


I do apologise. I misread your post.
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#39 gingerjon

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 02:11 PM

I do apologise. I misread your post.


That's fair enough. I am normally spouting ######.
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#40 Pride & Heritage

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:02 PM

I agree in principle P&R should be brought back, it is what sport is all about for heavens sake, it is like taking away winning and losing. But there needs to some levelling of the funding from the RFL first. The Championship teams only receive £90k a season from central finding, SL clubs get £1M. The RFL give approx £15M a year out to clubs.

IMO funding should be more evenly distributed between the divisions, how about splitting it £700k SL, £300k Ch and £100k in Ch1. in order to help teams in championship to bridge the gulf between them and the SL clubs. This would also help to bring back the magic of the Challenge cup, with lower division clubs more regularly turning over the bigger clubs.

In terms of the arguments of clubs overspending to get in, wasn't the salary cap brought in to stop that from happening?

Let's not forget some of the current SL clubs are not big clubs, they were just lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time.

Prior to SL, Keighley were getting getting gates of over 3-4000, this was against teams bringing in no more than a hundred or so fans. In the last season of CH rugby Widnes were only getting 1500 fans until they were given the green light to get back in and then the gates trebled.

Edited by Pride & Heritage, 12 February 2013 - 03:02 PM.





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