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Online Petition


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#41 shrek

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:12 PM

I think it died a slow, lingering death, with many duplicate signatures. It will be interesting to see if this one will allow a person to sign it twice (it seems to the same platform as Andy Burnham's).

Indeed, had a quick look at his website, given his high profile in Leigh and the exposure if got on BBC local radio (Manchester and Merseyside) along with a whole host of local paper coverage he racked up 1300 or so signatures it would seem. Not sure if that was enough to get him the meeting with Maurice Watkins he seemed to be after, no mention on his website of the outcome of any meeting if there was one that I can see.

#42 jannerboyuk

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 06:01 PM

I've signed partly because I thought it was very reasonably worded, and I think a review is needed.
PROUD TO BE A MEMBER OF http://www.rugbyleaguecares.org/ and http://www.walesrugb...-wales-for-2013
Predictions for the future -
Crusaders RL to get a franchise for 2012 onwards -WRONG
Widnes Vikings also to get a franchise - RIGHT
Crusaders RL to do the double over Widnes and finish five places ahead of them -WRONG
Widnes Vikings NOT to dominate rugby league in years to come! STILL TO COME

http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/cardiffdemonsrlfc/
http://www.walesrugbyleague.co.uk/

I promise to pay �10 to the charity of Bomb Jacks choice if Widnes Millionaires finish above the battling underdogs Crusaders RL. I OWE A TENNER!
http://www.jaxaxe.co...89/Default.aspx

#43 jannerboyuk

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 06:05 PM

I think it is wrong to speak of p&r existing successfully in these sports on a UK-wide basis. Perhaps rugby union clubs can be promoted to the elite level in England, but not so in Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland. In those countries the professional clubs are regional entities in a tier above the club game. You'll never see Stirling County, Ebbw Vale or Belfast Harlequins playing in the Heineken Cup or the Celtic League (or whatever it is called now).

Similarly in football (soccer). In Northern Ireland football is divided between senior and intermediate, and movement between the two tiers is not automatic. In Scotland the SFL is a virtual closed shop, and entry can only happen when an existing club keels over and dies (or they decide to expand).

In cricket, in England and Wales, the only promotion towards the top end of the game is within the existing, full-time professional County Championship. That is a bit like splitting the Super League in rugby into two divisions of 7 and having p&r between the two. There is no way that they are going to introduce p&r into/out of first class cricket eg Cumberland will never win promotion from the Minor Counties Championship to the County Championship by performances on the pitch.

that might be true but I think Wales has made a mistake and the conservatism of cricket is hardly the best example. The county set up is a bit weird
PROUD TO BE A MEMBER OF http://www.rugbyleaguecares.org/ and http://www.walesrugb...-wales-for-2013
Predictions for the future -
Crusaders RL to get a franchise for 2012 onwards -WRONG
Widnes Vikings also to get a franchise - RIGHT
Crusaders RL to do the double over Widnes and finish five places ahead of them -WRONG
Widnes Vikings NOT to dominate rugby league in years to come! STILL TO COME

http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/cardiffdemonsrlfc/
http://www.walesrugbyleague.co.uk/

I promise to pay �10 to the charity of Bomb Jacks choice if Widnes Millionaires finish above the battling underdogs Crusaders RL. I OWE A TENNER!
http://www.jaxaxe.co...89/Default.aspx

#44 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 07:49 PM

I see what you mean, but it is a petition not a poll. I applaud this opportunity for people to express their opinion in this free and open way. Of course,the hundreds of thousands of those who do not agree with the petition will not sign, so obviously their views must be taken into account. In any case, to have any influence, the petition statement must be watertight, which I am afraid it is not.


I dont recall a petition to abandon promotion abd relegation

#45 Padge

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 08:12 PM

I have absolutely no intention of signing it.

I am not putting my name to something designed to do maximum damage toclubs and the game as a whole.

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#46 JohnM

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 08:13 PM

Lobby, why would you at your age? :)

But seriously folks, that is nothing to do with anything. Our game has to deal with current and future realities. Of course, I encourage those who support the petition to sign it.

Edited by JohnM, 13 February 2013 - 08:57 AM.


#47 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 08:17 PM

If the sport has any hopes of spreading fan-wise e masse to the new towns, we need automatic promotion to SL preferably with 2 spots per year. Its the only way to see clubs like Hemel or Oxford in SL within the lifetime of an Oak tree

#48 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 08:18 PM

I have absolutely no intention of signing it.

I am not putting my name to something designed to do maximum damage toclubs and the game as a whole.


i.e. turkeys don't vote for Christmas!

#49 Padge

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 08:22 PM

i.e. turkeys don't vote for Christmas!

No, turkeys vote for automatic P&R

Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com
Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007
Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.


#50 Methven Hornet

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:47 AM

The real point is that chickens can't automatically become turkeys; they have to gain a licence by satisfying the appropriate criteria.
"There are now more pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs."

#51 The Parksider

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 07:06 AM

If the sport has any hopes of spreading fan-wise e masse to the new towns, we need automatic promotion to SL preferably with 2 spots per year. Its the only way to see clubs like Hemel or Oxford in SL.


My god some of the biggest names in RL - Halifax, Bradford, Salford, Wakefield etc have collapsed in Superleague and you speak of hemel or Oxford getting in SL.

It's quite mad.

There are RL towns who have been around since the 1870's who can't get a decent crowd or develop a home grown team and you think these can?

So I aren't signing it because I aren't aligning myself with the fantasists.

Nor would I help any hair brained scheme that may Leave Featherstone at risk of missing out after several years of banging on the SL door via the licensing route.

#52 The Parksider

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 08:15 AM

Probably not but abandoning P&R hasn't stopped it either and it's morally wrong to deny a team and it's followers a chance of playing in the top flight when they've earned the right by winning their Championship.


This is a petition from supporters at Whitehaven.

The story goes that when Whitehaven were matching Castleford in the Championship promotion race a few years ago when it came to the crunch the Whitehaven chairman had no money for new professional players for a Superleague campaign and existing part time players were expected to play Superleague but they had decent jobs they did not want to jeapordise.

The grand final was over very quickly and the pro's of cas duly went up. The Haven chairman didn't get his pay day and the haven players kept their careers.

As it turned out Whitehaven collapsed financially anyway. (n.b. all corrections welcome)

Firstly "followers" don't earn anything. Secondly when part time players win the Championship they don't want to have a ""right"" to play in the top division because they want to keep their jobs, annd in any case the club doesn't wan't them, they want professionals so this moral business is just bunkum.

There is no moral case whatsoever for P & R and no sporting case either, if players get to the top of the game they play then that's it and the two games of part time RL and professional RL are different, and fans should wake up to the realities that many CC club chairmen do not want Superleague. many part time players do not want to be pros.

#53 The Parksider

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 08:18 AM


I encourage those who support the petition to sign it.


And their mums and dads and the neighbours and the friends at work even though they are Man U fans etc.....

#54 The Parksider

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 08:28 AM


I agree in principle P&R should be brought back, but there needs to some levelling of the funding from the RFL first. The Championship teams only receive £90k a season from central finding, SL clubs get £1M. The RFL give approx £15M a year out to clubs. IMO funding should be more evenly distributed between the divisions, how about splitting it £700k SL, £300k Ch and £100k in Ch1. in order to help teams in championship to bridge the gulf between them and the SL clubs.


The money that funds this club funding is from the SKY contract. SKY paid £90,000,000 for the RFL to create a single professional Rugby League over 5 years for televising on SKY sports IIRC. SKY don't want championship rugby and therefore you can be 100% certain the SKY money contractually cannot be shared with the Championship.

I think you know that the Superleague has to have the money, other wise you would have suggested ALL clubs in membership of the RFL should get the same. Now that IS "fairness"

#55 JohnM

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:01 AM

And their mums and dads and the neighbours and the friends at work even though they are Man U fans etc.....


I am merely seeking to avoid been accused of trying to limit discussion and free speech. ( well, text, really) . In my personal opinion the reasoning, if it can be called that, behind the petition is badly flawed. Its what we technically call a crock of ######

#56 clement

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:15 AM

You Super League guys seem to think it's the be all and end all.Remember when Mr Lindsay said before the start of SL in 95 it will make us catch up with the Aussies being full time and it hasn't got us anywhere near.There is now 2 versions of RL in the UK and I for one would rather watch the Championship version(even though theres not much point) than the stale,sterile and no strength in depth game that Super League has become.

#57 thundergaz

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:27 AM

My god some of the biggest names in RL - Halifax, Bradford, Salford, Wakefield etc have collapsed in Superleague and you speak of hemel or Oxford getting in SL.

It's quite mad.

There are RL towns who have been around since the 1870's who can't get a decent crowd or develop a home grown team and you think these can?

So I aren't signing it because I aren't aligning myself with the fantasists.

Nor would I help any hair brained scheme that may Leave Featherstone at risk of missing out after several years of banging on the SL door via the licensing route.


Spot on parky. I've always been a fan of P&R and 3 years ago I would of signed the petition. But I'm not this time around because I believe it would hurt my club beyond belief if P&R came back into our game now. As our club as jumped through flaming hoops to try and get us back in the elite league and if we do get SL all that hard work they have done over the last 3 to 4 years would all hinge on one season. It could be disastrous for my club. It could be all that hard work coming down to one season of twist or fold.

#58 Steve May

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:39 AM

I'm pretty sure you are right! To get into the Football League a club has to satisfy certain criteria, and I know that a club going into the Championship has to eventually remove terracing, but there are no additional requirements for a club moving from League Two to League One (ie, tier 4 to 3).


Correct.

Pretty much the whole football pyramid is based on criteria for promotion.

Which was tried in RL, and everyone hated it. I mean, really hated it. Trust me on this.


The idea that the only thing stopping Batley or Whitehaven winning the SL is the P&R system is ludicrous. It's the economics of those two clubs that are stopping them. There probably isn't enough people in Whitehaven to support the 50-100 people needed full time to run a good SL club. It's just not that big a town. That's the problem.

Clubs need to achieve what they can achieve. Whitehaven are more likely to survive and thrive in a lower tier by realising that and getting on with it.


As it stands, your petition is like Leyton Orient fans complaining that they don't get to play in the Champions League.

That's me.  I'm done.


#59 Steve May

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:43 AM

The other point is that P&R proponents don't seem too keen on P&R at the bottom of the league. Certainly not the "R" bit anyway.

If you want P&R, then fair's fair. Let's have P&R. There'll be a more than a few Championship clubs that would be looking very nervously at the trapdoor they'd just opened and pondering a future playing at Moldgreen or Wigan St Pats.

That's me.  I'm done.


#60 Ackroman

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:46 AM

What happens so often on this board is that the fans of P&R hold fast in their beliefs and those opposing that view spend their time deriding them and producing hyperbole to say they're wrong, deluded, foolish or dreamers.

It's a petition. If you don't like it don't sign it.




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