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Duel Registration


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#1 sbull

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:36 PM

With the professional game loosing there under 20 sides favouring Duel Registration passing the players downhill so to speake
how long before the ncl clubs link into a championship side?

isnt this the real reason we have moved to summer?

if this happens it will be another disaster for our amateur game

#2 casyorkie

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 02:04 PM

With the professional game loosing there under 20 sides favouring Duel Registration passing the players downhill so to speake
how long before the ncl clubs link into a championship side?

isnt this the real reason we have moved to summer?

if this happens it will be another disaster for our amateur game



The NCL moved to summer last year and the under 20's was scrapped at the end of last year are you saying the RFL had already decided to scrap the under 20's so lets get NCL summer so they can then link up with championship clubs.

If i remember rightly last years summer conference teams ( not ncl) were allowed to loan players from championship teams but NCL have a rule stopping professional players playing for amateur clubs

I would take it that NCL clubs would have to vote to change it and exept dual reg or loans

Personally i would have no problem if a professional player wasnt getting a game that he could go back to his old amateur team and play for them, but i wouldnt want it that teams like you say have links to championship sides.

#3 jaguar

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:31 PM

The NCL moved to summer last year and the under 20's was scrapped at the end of last year are you saying the RFL had already decided to scrap the under 20's so lets get NCL summer so they can then link up with championship clubs.

If i remember rightly last years summer conference teams ( not ncl) were allowed to loan players from championship teams but NCL have a rule stopping professional players playing for amateur clubs

I would take it that NCL clubs would have to vote to change it and exept dual reg or loans

Personally i would have no problem if a professional player wasnt getting a game that he could go back to his old amateur team and play for them, but i wouldnt want it that teams like you say have links to championship sides.

It wouldn't worry me if a pro club gave out a permit to a lad on their books - but I would expect the permit to be long term (like they used to be). I certainly wouldn't like a dual registration that saw a coach drop 2 or 3 players on the thursday night after he'd heard that 3 pro lads were available. How long would you keep the players that were getting dropped just to suit a pro club? Not long I suspect.

#4 sbull

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 05:38 PM

It just seams to much of a coincidence with the pro teams having to cut cost we have ended up playing in summer when there was clearly a lot
of people against it, i know that after all the clubs voted on it but with all the one sided arguments in the background phone calls ect i feel that some generally wanted
to move but most were frightend of being left behind,
i remenber the online pole that the RFL paid for i think, showing you womens rugby covered in mud ect and the questions so one sided
i think one of the question stated, if we move to summer anyway ,, would you still play,

there is little doubt in my mind that the clubs will want to vote after the 3 years listening to folks from multiple clubs, i just hope the a case can be put forward for both sides,

nothing wrong with a pro player going back to his own club but it will cause chaos if it happens in the NCL if a team can suddenly get an influx of pros,

#5 Marauder

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 07:30 PM

It wouldn't worry me if a pro club gave out a permit to a lad on their books - but I would expect the permit to be long term (like they used to be). I certainly wouldn't like a dual registration that saw a coach drop 2 or 3 players on the thursday night after he'd heard that 3 pro lads were available. How long would you keep the players that were getting dropped just to suit a pro club? Not long I suspect.

Got to agree, but I'll hold my breath, wasn't the dual registration supposed to be to allow the under 20's to gain experience (Or was that just another miss leading scam) but what we've already seen are super league players who have not made the 17 being farmed out.

Local amateur clubs in Doncaster have already been sounded out to see if the Pennine would allow them to farm players out to them, To my knowledge 2 of the 3 clubs have said they don't want professional players because of the reason you have stated, I'm not sure what the 3rd club have said.
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#6 Back In The Good Old Days

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 10:14 PM

Sbull

If this happens you may have enough players for your a team to fulfill its fixtures
Sounds like a win win situation to me just as long as the permit players are distributed evenly throughout the borough rather than all end up at one club - that would have the potential to cause problems.

#7 Marauder

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:18 PM

Sbull

If this happens you may have enough players for your a team to fulfill its fixtures
Sounds like a win win situation to me just as long as the permit players are distributed evenly throughout the borough rather than all end up at one club - that would have the potential to cause problems.

But does it work that way and what happens when these players go back to their clubs and the player with his nose pushed out has moved to a different club.
Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#8 casyorkie

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 09:02 AM

But does it work that way and what happens when these players go back to their clubs and the player with his nose pushed out has moved to a different club.


The answer was saying it may enable them to have enough players

The only way i could see this working is if a player was allowed to go back to his own amateur club, if it was clubs associated with a professional club then i wouldnt like it and im pretty sure most other ncl clubs would vote against it.

The Summer conference were allowed to do this last year and i didnt read about loads of players been shipped in to change a team

#9 jaguar

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 09:27 AM

The answer was saying it may enable them to have enough players

The only way i could see this working is if a player was allowed to go back to his own amateur club, if it was clubs associated with a professional club then i wouldnt like it and im pretty sure most other ncl clubs would vote against it.

The Summer conference were allowed to do this last year and i didnt read about loads of players been shipped in to change a team

The problem is that it's the thin end of the wedge! NWC 16-18s are trying to add this for their teams, that up to six contracted players can be signed on but only three can play at any one time. Totally wrong. If the RFL have scrapped one of their younger age groups, it really isnt our problem and we shouldn't be expected to give professional signed on players game time. Imagine the difference (wether we like it or not) in, for example, the tackling techniques, muscle volume etc on a young lad thats been under the control of a super league club for 3 years, and a young lad freshly coming into our game at 16 years old.

All the clubs need to fight against this "merger" of pro players and us amateurs. If we wanted to be semi-pro we would have made strides to get into the Championship leagues - it doesn't appear to be that difficult!

#10 LeeF

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 09:54 AM

Got to agree, but I'll hold my breath, wasn't the dual registration supposed to be to allow the under 20's to gain experience (Or was that just another miss leading scam) but what we've already seen are super league players who have not made the 17 being farmed out.

Local amateur clubs in Doncaster have already been sounded out to see if the Pennine would allow them to farm players out to them, To my knowledge 2 of the 3 clubs have said they don't want professional players because of the reason you have stated, I'm not sure what the 3rd club have said.


The original intention of DR was to give younger players first team experience at a level below SL now it is open season with some clubs pushing it to the limits

As a transition between Amateur & Championship rugby then an age limuted Pro/ Am Dual Reg has probably got some mileage but it needs looking at properly not like the current SL/ Champ one

#11 West Country Eagle

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 10:23 AM

The answer was saying it may enable them to have enough players

The only way i could see this working is if a player was allowed to go back to his own amateur club, if it was clubs associated with a professional club then i wouldnt like it and im pretty sure most other ncl clubs would vote against it.

The Summer conference were allowed to do this last year and i didnt read about loads of players been shipped in to change a team


Few teams utilised the rule, to be honest. In this year's Southern Conference League (i.e the league that replaced last year's Conference League 3 when the NCL decided to run their own division 3), two clubs have partnership agreements with Championship/Championship 1 clubs - Sheffield Hallam Eagles (with Sheffield Eagles) and Bristol Sonics (with Uni of Gloucestershire All Golds). From the Sonics point of view, we think that most of the dual reg players we "receive" from the All Golds will be those players of ours on their radar - e.g those who've signed, have been to trials etc - though we may get one or two others. In the case of Sheffield Hallam, it will be players on the Eagles' performance pathway (e.g U20s, overage academy players), many of whom attend the Uni.

Will be interesting to see whether it works, how much difference (if any) it makes to the standard of the comp etc.

The NCL are under no obligation to take up this rule, so if clubs don't want it then it will be voted down. That's fair enough. Clubs in Conference League South were asked and agreed to it.
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#12 Bigtackle

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 12:09 PM

Even if it is restricted to pro under 20s to gain experience this still should not happen, it may work for a few seasons but what will eventually happen is we will see reduced numbers of good young amateurs filtering through as they have lost out on being developed to accommodate the Pro clubs, add to that the existing experienced players who will not appreciate being dropped on a Thursday evening it has disaster written all over it.

#13 TaxiEgg

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 01:33 PM

One of the reasons in switching playing season was to increase participation within the community game, not to subsidise the professional game .
Simple rule if you cant afford it dont run it .

#14 West Country Eagle

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 01:39 PM

One of the reasons in switching playing season was to increase participation within the community game, not to subsidise the professional game .
Simple rule if you cant afford it dont run it .


To be fair, all the clubs in Conference League South (apart from Sheffield Hallam) run multiple sides, so there's still plenty of opportunity for players new to the game to get a hit out.

I'm not sure it would work in the NCL and it's probably best that it's not introduced - after all, if sides in the Champs/Championship 1 want to go into partnership they could always do it with non-NCL sides or put a team in CLS in future years (I'd expect Hemel and Skolars to do this at some point).
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#15 West Country Eagle

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 01:44 PM

Also, it makes more sense for the Uni link-up clubs - they see it as a way of getting players in the performance pathway without having to play them every week in the Championships, a level they may not be ready for yet. That's a bit different from packing NCL sides with Championship academy players or SL cast offs.

I'd also agree that pro/semi-pro clubs should run their own academy sides - a handful do already (Fev, Sheffield etc). Others may in future if the RFL relax the rules about costs etc. Fev and Sheffield have been at war with the RFL about their academy sides on and off for years.
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#16 Marauder

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 07:33 PM

Also, it makes more sense for the Uni link-up clubs - they see it as a way of getting players in the performance pathway without having to play them every week in the Championships, a level they may not be ready for yet. That's a bit different from packing NCL sides with Championship academy players or SL cast offs.

I'd also agree that pro/semi-pro clubs should run their own academy sides - a handful do already (Fev, Sheffield etc). Others may in future if the RFL relax the rules about costs etc. Fev and Sheffield have been at war with the RFL about their academy sides on and off for years.

I believe Doncaster are going to be running a team under the name of Balby Dons.
Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#17 rollman

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 11:00 AM

Most if the young players wouldn't be good enough to get in the ncl teams

#18 sbull

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 05:37 PM

Most if the young players wouldn't be good enough to get in the ncl teams


they would now, most teams have used there under 18 ns last season so if young players coming back from a pro club im sure they will manage.

Edited by sbull, 20 February 2013 - 05:37 PM.


#19 sbull

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 11:06 AM

if the RFL are short of cash why would they offer cash insentives to get the amateur game to switch to summer if its not for Due registrations, any other ideas?

#20 jaguar

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 11:10 AM

if the RFL are short of cash why would they offer cash insentives to get the amateur game to switch to summer if its not for Due registrations, any other ideas?

There wasn't cash incentives to switch to summer that made a difference on the NCL vote. A small amount towards travelling - and not guaranteed after year one - didn't swing the vote.




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