271 replies to this topic

[ShotgunGold]

Has anyone read this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21511904

I cannot believe an actual BBC reporter can write such rubbish.

I am genuinely worried for the future of my country. I am still quite young and I am genuinely worried with the state my country is slowly developing into.

I really don't want this country to become multicultural - I think it loses it's identity by becoming one and will escalate problems in the future. I see very few real advantages to becoming multicultural at all and many disadvantages. There is one "group", should I say, that I am particularly worried by.

I respect other cultures completely - I recently travelled to India, China, Greece and Germany and know two other languages quite well - but I don't exactly want them en masse on my doorstep.

I am annoyed that there is absolutely nothing I can do about any of this, I am worried that we are past the point of being able to do anything about it even if we wanted to, and I am a little frightened by the reports I hear from normal people coming out of places like East London, Bradford and Birmingham.

One of my friends, was drinking with a fellow Christian friend and a Hindu (parents originally from India) was attacked and beaten up for drinking alcohol outside a shop in Birmingham last September. Quite frankly it's put me off Birmingham.

I feel for those people who have grown up in a town or suburb who have had to move out because of changes to their area. Fortunately my city, which I genuinely hold close, has not changed much recently but I do know of many nearby that have.

I am frustrated that this issue cannot be talked about openly, despite our "liberal freedoms".

What can one do?

Edited by ShotgunGold, 21 February 2013 - 12:27 AM.

[Mumby Magic]

I think it's probably fact, it's the way of the world. They are inclining a race situation which for some it may be but I feel it's more financial. People cashing in and moving elsewhere with a bit less hustle and bustle maybe?

[Wolford6]

Best of luck in using this forum to be airing those views. Whenever I do, I get assailed and called borderline racist, generally by people who have comfortable middle class lifestyles and live in leafy suburbs. The nearest they get to multiculturalism is reading about it in the paper.

[Steve May]

Has anyone read this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21511904

I cannot believe an actual BBC reporter can write such rubbish.

I have now. Very interesting report that presents the facts of the situation with little or no value judgement. I have absolutely no idea why you'd think it was "rubbish" unless you dispute the findings of the 2011 census.

I am frustrated that this issue cannot be talked about openly, despite our "liberal freedoms".

You literally cannot pick up a newspaper these days without someone discussing these kind of issues. And always, but always, articles with a particular slant on it start with a comment along the lines of "liberal freedoms being used to silence the writer". It's quite astonishing how many journalists and commentators in the national press use their articles to tell us how they're being silenced.

My guess is that it's you that is reluctant to talk about this openly because you're a little bit afraid of what you might find yourself saying. You're projecting your fears about your own character and creating a big liberal "boogieman" to make yourself feel better.

What can one do?

Being honest with yourself and the rest of us would be a start.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

Best of luck in using this forum to be airing those views. Whenever I do, I get assailed and called borderline racist, generally by people who have comfortable middle class lifestyles and live in leafy suburbs. The nearest they get to multiculturalism is reading about it in the paper.

people disagree with you should that not be allowed? People often gree with you, I know I do.

You know littl if anything of peoples' lifestyle or backtound on here. People can have an informe(orfor that matter uninformed) opinion no matter what backround or lifestyle they have. But to takeyour proposition to its logical conclusion: does this mea that you are disqualified from having an opinion on things outside your own background and/or kifestyle. I think not and I hope not.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

Has anyone read this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21511904

I cannot believe an actual BBC reporter can write such rubbish.

I am genuinely worried for the future of my country. I am still quite young and I am genuinely worried with the state my country is slowly developing into.

I really don't want this country to become multicultural - I think it loses it's identity by becoming one and will escalate problems in the future. I see very few real advantages to becoming multicultural at all and many disadvantages. There is one "group", should I say, that I am particularly worried by.

I respect other cultures completely - I recently travelled to India, China, Greece and Germany and know two other languages quite well - but I don't exactly want them en masse on my doorstep.

I am annoyed that there is absolutely nothing I can do about any of this, I am worried that we are past the point of being able to do anything about it even if we wanted to, and I am a little frightened by the reports I hear from normal people coming out of places like East London, Bradford and Birmingham.

One of my friends, was drinking with a fellow Christian friend and a Hindu (parents originally from India) was attacked and beaten up for drinking alcohol outside a shop in Birmingham last September. Quite frankly it's put me off Birmingham.

I feel for those people who have grown up in a town or suburb who have had to move out because of changes to their area. Fortunately my city, which I genuinely hold close, has not changed much recently but I do know of many nearby that have.

I am frustrated that this issue cannot be talked about openly, despite our "liberal freedoms".

What can one do?

this country has been multicultural for thousands of years.

if you don't want GB to be multicultural, what should our'culture' consist of? How would you set about maing it fir your vision?

Why can't/whenisn't it talked about?

[nadera78]

It's a decent article, but it does leave a few things out. Large swathes of London have become ghetto-ised over the last decade, to the detriment of the city and the community. To live in zones 1 and 2 now, and increasingly large parts of zone 3, you need to be either very wealthy to buy property or extremely poor to qualify for social housing. Everyone else has been forced by house prices to move out either to the suburbs, commuter towns, or even further out into the country.

I grew up in Acton, which some of you may know as not the nicest part of town, but in all honesty it was a great place to grow up. It was a genuinely working class neighbourhood, with some aspirational areas and some not so. Now, it's been split in two with the nicer parts colonised by people like Toby Young who have money but can't afford Notting Hill, and the less desirable areas being filled with migrants, mostly Somali and Arab, and then left to rot. It's a crying shame to see what's happened, but it's the result of the political, social and economic emphasis over the last 30 years.

I do think Mark Easton has glossed over some of the push factors, like people not wanting to live within fragmented neighbourhoods that were once genuine communities. But overall it's a decent article. The places people have moved to are amongst the cheapest places to buy, which explains a lot of it. Also, interesting to note the huge fall in the number of jobs in Barking & Dagenham - 25% is enormous. I don't blame people for cashing in and moving away in those circumstances.

[Futtocks]

Best of luck in using this forum to be airing those views. Whenever I do, I get assailed and called borderline racist, generally by people who have comfortable middle class lifestyles and live in leafy suburbs. The nearest they get to multiculturalism is reading about it in the paper.

I didn't realise you had detailed information of the location, income and lifestyles of everyone who disagrees with you. Climb down from your cross and stop making assumptions.

[gingerjon]

There seems to be a lot of overlap between the eight worst places and the places from where people with enough assets/wealth to move have moved.

Edited by gingerjon, 21 February 2013 - 10:14 AM.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

There seems to be a lot of overlap between the eight worst places and the places from where people with enough assets/wealth to move have moved.

it's as old as urbn living itself

immigrants move to find work, live in the cheapest accommodation stick ogether for physical and culturl security, become established improve where tey live andmove on somewhre nicer. The plce becomes cheap agin and te next group movein ad so on.

Classic example jews in Leeds. I rish people settled around Sheepscar around where the tanneries where lousy work shythole of a place. Get established and mov al over Leeds, it bing easier them bcause tey were from the |Bitis ises, were Christian and weren'r racially identifiable.

Almost everywhere in London has xperienced these cycles.

[Severus]

it's as old as urbn living itself

immigrants move to find work, live in the cheapest accommodation stick ogether for physical and culturl security, become established improve where tey live andmove on somewhre nicer. The plce becomes cheap agin and te next group movein ad so on.

Classic example jews in Leeds. I rish people settled around Sheepscar around where the tanneries where lousy work shythole of a place. Get established and mov al over Leeds, it bing easier them bcause tey were from the |Bitis ises, were Christian and weren'r racially identifiable.

Almost everywhere in London has xperienced these cycles.

Excellent post.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

Excellent post.

apart rom seeming to have been written by a new zealander.
drat this keyboard(and yes poor workers blame their tools)

[l'angelo mysterioso]

thanks sevvy: it's an interesting subject

edit: it does seem to have been written by a new zealanderthough .
drat this keyboard(and yes poor workers blame their tools)

[gingerjon]

Almost everywhere in London has xperienced these cycles.

And, to be fair, often experienced tension as a result. The history of Whitechapel being particularly noteworthy.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

And, to be fair, often experienced tension as a result. The history of Whitechapel being particularly noteworthy.

of course

sometimes beyond tension

Nottinghill rac riots 1950s for instance. NOttinghill is now a trendy sought after part of London.

[Northern Sol]

of course

sometimes beyond tension

Nottinghill rac riots 1950s for instance. NOttinghill is now a trendy sought after part of London.

Parts of Notting Hill are trendy and sought after. Not all of it.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

Parts of Notting Hill are trendy and sought after. Not all of it.

ok

gentrification is a process not a fait accomplit

[Steve May]

it's as old as urbn living itself

immigrants move to find work, live in the cheapest accommodation stick ogether for physical and culturl security, become established improve where tey live andmove on somewhre nicer. The plce becomes cheap agin and te next group movein ad so on.

Classic example jews in Leeds. I rish people settled around Sheepscar around where the tanneries where lousy work shythole of a place. Get established and mov al over Leeds, it bing easier them bcause tey were from the |Bitis ises, were Christian and weren'r racially identifiable.

Almost everywhere in London has xperienced these cycles.

I think this is true in terms of the cycle. I'm not sure about the improvements that immediately arrived immigrants bring to their surrounding areas. I actually think the opposite. An influx of recent immigrants tends to lower the appearance of an area. I think this, if it's real and not just my perception, is because most immigrants do not intend to stay. They tend to keep hold of an idea that they will one day return home, when times are better. So they don't tend to invest as much because they do not feel like permanent residents. Also, of course, they don't tend to have a lot of money.

Inevitably, they do stay. And it is their children and grandchildren who truly begin the process of integrating into British society.

As an example, there was a kid at my school whose mother spoke very little English. He spoke fluently in Polish and English, his kids speak very little Polish.

In a nutshell, I think that "getting established" bit is a multi-generational process.

[Northern Sol]

I think this is true in terms of the cycle. I'm not sure about the improvements that immediately arrived immigrants bring to their surrounding areas. I actually think the opposite. An influx of recent immigrants tends to lower the appearance of an area. I think this, if it's real and not just my perception, is because most immigrants do not intend to stay. They tend to keep hold of an idea that they will one day return home, when times are better. So they don't tend to invest as much because they do not feel like permanent residents. Also, of course, they don't tend to have a lot of money.

Inevitably, they do stay. And it is their children and grandchildren who truly begin the process of integrating into British society.

As an example, there was a kid at my school whose mother spoke very little English. He spoke fluently in Polish and English, his kids speak very little Polish.

In a nutshell, I think that "getting established" bit is a multi-generational process.

Poles don't usually marry their illiterate, monolingual cousin from their father's village though.

The problem with the whole first generation, second generation, third generation model is that it doesn't allow for marriage patterns that differ from the European norm.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

I think this is true in terms of the cycle. I'm not sure about the improvements that immediately arrived immigrants bring to their surrounding areas. I actually think the opposite. An influx of recent immigrants tends to lower the appearance of an area. I think this, if it's real and not just my perception, is because most immigrants do not intend to stay. They tend to keep hold of an idea that they will one day return home, when times are better. So they don't tend to invest as much because they do not feel like permanent residents. Also, of course, they don't tend to have a lot of money.

Inevitably, they do stay. And it is their children and grandchildren who truly begin the process of integrating into British society.

As an example, there was a kid at my school whose mother spoke very little English. He spoke fluently in Polish and English, his kids speak very little Polish.

In a nutshell, I think that "getting established" bit is a multi-generational process.

I'll go with what you say about improving an area

your other comments are very interesting as well