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BBC article - Utter utter RUBBISH

Britain London ethnic minority census white

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271 replies to this topic

#21 Futtocks

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 12:38 PM

I've been reading Jonathan Meades' book 'Museum without Walls' and he argues that, with inner city areas becoming gentrified/trendy*, we may well end up following the continental pattern, where the troublesome areas end up outside the city's ringroad (out of sight, out of mind?) and the old slum areas get all respectable/pricey. It makes a city look much nicer to outsiders' eyes, but the problems are still there, just not where visitors would go.

*I started work in Hoxton when the area was a total dump. Half the buildings were derelict and the rest weren't much better. Very shortly afterwards, the arty types moved in and now it is not only painfully fashionable, but several orders of magnitude more expensive.

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#22 Griff9of13

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 12:51 PM

Poles don't usually marry their illiterate, monolingual cousin from their father's village though.

The problem with the whole first generation, second generation, third generation model is that it doesn't allow for marriage patterns that differ from the European norm.


I never realised we had a problem with a large influx of people from Mongolia.
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#23 Bostik Bailey

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 01:01 PM

The real reason behind all this


http://newsthump.com...-to-manchester/

#24 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 01:35 PM

I've been reading Jonathan Meades' book 'Museum without Walls' and he argues that, with inner city areas becoming gentrified/trendy*, we may well end up following the continental pattern, where the troublesome areas end up outside the city's ringroad (out of sight, out of mind?) and the old slum areas get all respectable/pricey. It makes a city look much nicer to outsiders' eyes, but the problems are still there, just not where visitors would go.

*I started work in Hoxton when the area was a total dump. Half the buildings were derelict and the rest weren't much better. Very shortly afterwards, the arty types moved in and now it is not only painfully fashionable, but several orders of magnitude more expensive.


another classic example
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#25 Phil

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 02:28 PM

The problem with multiculturalism is, in my opinion, that it has been imposed on the white working class by middle class liberal lefties, who have have effectively told many (and lets face it, mainly asian) immigrants that their culture and way of life is just as "valid" in post industrial Britain as it is in pre-industrial Kashmir or rural Pakistan.

Obviously the fact that south asians are "black" has had a bearing on their assimilation, but much more important is the fact that they were implicitly told that they didn't have to learn english, that street signs and leaflets were printed for them, that accomodations have been made for behaviours which are unacceptable in modern society.

By contrast, eastern european immigrants after WWII were left to get on with it, and get on with it they did and assimilated seamlessly into society.

Everyone on here knows my political stance so I don't think I can be accused of racism, unlike many young islamists who can be and are.
"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

#26 fieldofclothofgold

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 02:49 PM

it's as old as urbn living itself

immigrants move to find work, live in the cheapest accommodation stick ogether for physical and culturl security, become established improve where tey live andmove on somewhre nicer. The plce becomes cheap agin and te next group movein ad so on.

Classic example jews in Leeds. I rish people settled around Sheepscar around where the tanneries where lousy work shythole of a place. Get established and mov al over Leeds, it bing easier them bcause tey were from the |Bitis ises, were Christian and weren'r racially identifiable.

Almost everywhere in London has xperienced these cycles.

Good post.I was born and bred in Bramley and have seen it decline long before it had this big influx of immigrants in very recent year's.When I return home twice a year I notice on Town street and the shopping centre more and more foreign languages being spoken many of the residents are not comfortable with this,although many of them were not natives of Bramley when the Village was raped by LCC and moved in people from other parts of the city.Ive told them the real Bramley natives were not comfortable tte village destroyed and green area's built over and the loss of Bramley/village identity just to accomodate them when they moved in.Things are changing all the time,in the 50s-60s local cinema's closed ,then in recent years fish n chip shops ,now its Pubs.We have alway's had change and immigration.Wether this round of immigration is sustainable remains to be seen
but you and I weve been through that and this is not our fate.
So let us so let us not talk falsely now.
The hour is getting late
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#27 Wolford6

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 02:49 PM

Can anyone tell me when West Bowling and Barkerend are about to be gentrified?

I'll step in now and buy a terraced house for £45,000. Of course the old dear who recently died in it had spent all her working life running a loom in a mill trying to pay for it.

Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police


#28 gingerjon

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 03:02 PM

Everyone on here knows my political stance so I don't think I can be accused of racism,


Yes.

Everyone knows nobody left-wing can be racist.
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#29 fieldofclothofgold

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 03:06 PM

Yes.

Everyone knows nobody left-wing can be racist.

There are lots of people who talk left wing say they have concern's about immigration as it is today
but you and I weve been through that and this is not our fate.
So let us so let us not talk falsely now.
The hour is getting late
FROM 2004,TO DO WHAT THIS CLUB HAS DONE,IF THATS NOT GREATNESSTHEN i DONT KNOW WHAT IS.

JAMIE PEACOCK

#30 Phil

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 03:09 PM

Yes.

Everyone knows nobody left-wing can be racist.


How about contributing to the matter at hand instead of trying to be clever?
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#31 gingerjon

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 03:29 PM

How about contributing to the matter at hand instead of trying to be clever?


No need, cleverer people than me have made good points. You seem to have a bizarre notion that because you're a leftie that excuses you from any racist opinion you might put forward.
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#32 gingerjon

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 03:32 PM

There are lots of people who talk left wing say they have concern's about immigration as it is today


I think there's a difference between believing that the country will struggle with increasing immigration at a time of high unemployment, economic contraction and no investment in health, education, housing or transport - and saying, "These brown people come over and they're not like us at all."
Cheer up, RL is actually rather good
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#33 fieldofclothofgold

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 03:36 PM

I think there's a difference between believing that the country will struggle with increasing immigration at a time of high unemployment, economic contraction and no investment in health, education, housing or transport - and saying, "These brown people come over and they're not like us at all."

Of course
but you and I weve been through that and this is not our fate.
So let us so let us not talk falsely now.
The hour is getting late
FROM 2004,TO DO WHAT THIS CLUB HAS DONE,IF THATS NOT GREATNESSTHEN i DONT KNOW WHAT IS.

JAMIE PEACOCK

#34 Phil

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 03:48 PM

No need, cleverer people than me have made good points. You seem to have a bizarre notion that because you're a leftie that excuses you from any racist opinion you might put forward.


Would you like to quote these racist opinions I've put forward?
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#35 Johnoco

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 04:41 PM

The problem with multiculturalism is, in my opinion, that it has been imposed on the white working class by middle class liberal lefties, who have have effectively told many (and lets face it, mainly asian) immigrants that their culture and way of life is just as "valid" in post industrial Britain as it is in pre-industrial Kashmir or rural Pakistan.

Obviously the fact that south asians are "black" has had a bearing on their assimilation, but much more important is the fact that they were implicitly told that they didn't have to learn english, that street signs and leaflets were printed for them, that accomodations have been made for behaviours which are unacceptable in modern society.

By contrast, eastern european immigrants after WWII were left to get on with it, and get on with it they did and assimilated seamlessly into society.

Everyone on here knows my political stance so I don't think I can be accused of racism, unlike many young islamists who can be and are.

Absolutely correct in my experience.

#36 T-Dub

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 06:39 PM

Everyone on here knows my political stance so I don't think I can be accused of racism, unlike many young islamists who can be and are.


Phil. as we both know your political stance is way different to mine but your post resonates loud and clear as perfectly reasonable

#37 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 07:39 PM

The problem with multiculturalism is, in my opinion, that it has been imposed on the white working class by middle class liberal lefties, who have have effectively told many (and lets face it, mainly asian) immigrants that their culture and way of life is just as "valid" in post industrial Britain as it is in pre-industrial Kashmir or rural Pakistan.

Obviously the fact that south asians are "black" has had a bearing on their assimilation, but much more important is the fact that they were implicitly told that they didn't have to learn english, that street signs and leaflets were printed for them, that accomodations have been made for behaviours which are unacceptable in modern society.

By contrast, eastern european immigrants after WWII were left to get on with it, and get on with it they did and assimilated seamlessly into society.

Everyone on here knows my political stance so I don't think I can be accused of racism, unlike many young islamists who can be and are.


the poles and ukranians in Leeds and Bradford maintain their culture very much.

The people who settled in the UK after ww2 were and are white, from an industrialise European country, with their religion catered for. Thosee industries; mining, steel, engineering and so on were replicated in both countries. They established their own clubs and social structures which still exist. Their way of life was similar to the country they came from

Asians came from the other side of the world, from an entirely different way of life, believing in an entirely alien way of living, in a climate they weren't accustomed to, and they were of a different skin colour and ate entirely different food.

when wasn't the UK multicultural?

What should the UK's culture consist of?
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#38 Johnoco

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 07:53 PM

Ukranians, Hungarians, Polish, Estonians and many more moved to Bradford after WW2. They all maintained their cultural identity and had their own clubs etc, I've been in many they're good places but they all did this whilst accepting they had moved to another country and practically every man jack of them learnt English and insisted their children do (so they could get on).
They didn't demand allowances be made for them (as Phil alludes); they wanted to be here and made the place their home.

The UK has indeed had many strands but usually over decades or hundreds of years - not in a few. There has been and continues to be huge social change going on, to dismiss anyone pointing out concerns as a racist or far right is out of order.

#39 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 08:36 PM

Ukranians, Hungarians, Polish, Estonians and many more moved to Bradford after WW2. They all maintained their cultural identity and had their own clubs etc, I've been in many they're good places but they all did this whilst accepting they had moved to another country and practically every man jack of them learnt English and insisted their children do (so they could get on).
They didn't demand allowances be made for them (as Phil alludes); they wanted to be here and made the place their home.

The UK has indeed had many strands but usually over decades or hundreds of years - not in a few. There has been and continues to be huge social change going on, to dismiss anyone pointing out concerns as a racist or far right is out of order.


me too
there were also polish shops ad bakeris in bradford and a po0lish meat shop in the old market. I was regular in MIlo's on Easby Road back in te day.

as for making te plce their home, maybe a check on the contribution of Asians to the UK economy might put some perspective on things. My friend Joe Sczepanski's mother never learned English-I don't know how prevalent that was. It'snever good to use particular examples to illustrate a general point. Fev had a coach called George Pianiaziak, his motherspoke no English as well and his father spoke very little English ither. I think it's a little invidious though to directly compare Pakitani/Bangladeshi immigrants with Eastern Europeans in general sense for reasons I've given.

To call somene racist is a major allegation to make against a person's character andmustn't be done lightly. At the same time anyone taking part in such a discussion needs to choose their words carefully, and to have clear, verifiable and relevant evidence to support what they are saying, rather than hearsay, rumours, skewed information and unverifiable impressions.

W still haven't arrived at what this British ulture is that some people feel that te population of the country should live itslife by, and what should be done with those who don't wish to do so.
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#40 Johnoco

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:04 PM

I'm fairly certain there was the odd Pole or Ukrainian who didn't speak English but I'll bet you any money they were of the older generation- not learning English was a no no for the vast majority of East European immigrants.

Not so today, where in a lot of immigrants view learning English is an optional extra as they can get by as everything is printed in their language. How much does the NHS spend on translation services? Millions? A waste.

And why do people have to choose their words? What happened to saying what you feel? Perhaps Phil is drawing on his own personal experiences? I know I do when discussing such matters.

Edited by Johnoco, 21 February 2013 - 09:13 PM.