271 replies to this topic

[Northern Sol]

No, I think the point is made about being labelled Racist by discussing major issues in ill thought racist terms
HTH

So your argument is that such discussions are only for those who have attended all the recent courses and are deemed "worthy".

I think we're back to the chattering classes imposing multiculturalism on the white working class and labelling dissenters as racist.

[Johnoco]

I don't think domestic violence can really be used as any sort of marker in this thread. Its definitely something that transcends race or class barriers.

[hindle xiii]

I don't think domestic violence can really be used as any sort of marker in this thread. Its definitely something that transcends race or class barriers.

and gender too, which often goes by with almost ridicule.

Anyhoo, carry on.

[Shadow]

So your argument is that such discussions are only for those who have attended all the recent courses and are deemed "worthy".

I think we're back to the chattering classes imposing multiculturalism on the white working class and labelling dissenters as racist.

Thanks for explaining what my point was, I'd foolishly assumed it was something completely different.

If someone wishes to avoid being mistaken for a Racist then they should perhaps avoid using Racist turns of phrase like

1. A white man would have got jail for the same violent offence, and would have expected to.
2. No white wife would have pleaded with the judge to be lenient, or be prepared to carry on living in the same home as her assailant.

This is not a case of the dissenters being labelled Racist, it is a case of Racists being labelled Racist.
Or do I mean something different? Perhaps you'd be kind enough to explain.

[Wolford6]

]
This is not a case of the dissenters being labelled Racist, it is a case of Racists being labelled Racist.
Or do I mean something different? Perhaps you'd be kind enough to explain.

You've lost me, I didn't go to public school.

[gingerjon]

I think you made his point about being labelled racist for discussing major issues.

I labelled someone making an entirely unsubstantiated point about the positive and negative characteristics of people purely on grounds of their race as a racist.

I do apologise. What word should I have used?

I also, at no point, have said that he should be silenced.

[gingerjon]

and gender too, which often goes by with almost ridicule.

Anyhoo, carry on.

There are differing levels of domestic violence by background and culture. I'm told - though I haven't checked - that one of the worst countries to be a woman if you don't want to get battered by your partner is New Zealand. So it would be worthy of discussion.

The Home Office guidance on domestic violence doesn't actually mention male victims. Which rather makes your point for you.

[Shadow]

I didn't go to public school.

Are you carrying a chip on your shoulder about that as well?

[Johnoco]

and gender too, which often goes by with almost ridicule.

Anyhoo, carry on.

Correct.

[Shadow]

You've lost me, I didn't go to public school.

OK, allow me to clarify.
You made prejudiced sweeping generalisations about domestic violence and sentencing, that do not appear to bear even a passing similarity to the truth, based on nothing more than skin colour.
These prejudiced sweeping generalisations based on skin colour are what most of us would call "Racist", therefore several of us, myself included, have reached the conclusion that you hold some Racist views.

[John Drake]

Oh just stop with the name calling. That means EVERYBODY!

Debate the points being made, not the people making them, eh?

[Wolford6]

Are you carrying a chip on your shoulder about that as well?

Not really; I won a scholarship to Monmouth, but turned it down.

In other news, my next door neighbour is a Hindu family, next door-but-one is a Sikh couple. We all get on and count each other as good friends. Same goes for my bookkeeper, who is ethnic Jamaican (with a husband who is ethnic Dominican) and the landlord of one of the pub where I will be going tonight and tomorow. By and large, our views on Bradford's divided society are broadly similar. Perhaps we are all racist.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

I'm fairly certain there was the odd Pole or Ukrainian who didn't speak English but I'll bet you any money they were of the older generation- not learning English was a no no for the vast majority of East European immigrants.

Not so today, where in a lot of immigrants view learning English is an optional extra as they can get by as everything is printed in their language. How much does the NHS spend on translation services? Millions? A waste.

And why do people have to choose their words? What happened to saying what you feel? Perhaps Phil is drawing on his own personal experiences? I know I do when discussing such matters.

like I said I wasn't using it as a generalisation. Do you think that people from pakistani/bangladeshi backgrounds who were born and grew up here can't speak English.

The immigration patterns/social and cultural backgrounds are so different between eastern europeans and south asians that they can't be directly compared.

We have to choose our words and thast goes for everybody because we are involved in a rational discussion. One has to have firm information in order to do that ratrher than rumout, hearsay, impressions, emotional rhetotic.

[Johnoco]

Chris, the simple fact is that there are many people living in say, Bradford, from Bangladeshi/Pakistani heritage (either born here or there) that cannot speak English, lots.
That's not to say it is exclusively them.

[tonyXIII]

like I said I wasn't using it as a generalisation. Do you think that people from pakistani/bangladeshi backgrounds who were born and grew up here can't speak English.

The immigration patterns/social and cultural backgrounds are so different between eastern europeans and south asians that they can't be directly compared.

We have to choose our words and thast goes for everybody because we are involved in a rational discussion. One has to have firm information in order to do that ratrher than rumout, hearsay, impressions, emotional rhetotic.

But if they are all moving into this country, there is a degree of commonality which should allow for comparisons to be made. Remember that, when comparing things, we usually also contrast them.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

Chris, the simple fact is that there are many people living in say, Bradford, from Bangladeshi/Pakistani heritage (either born here or there) that cannot speak English, lots.
That's not to say it is exclusively them.

there may well be.

that doesn't mean they aren't or shouldn't be allowed to live here.

What matters is how many-'lots' and 'many' doesn't mean anything. How old they are, where they were born, the limits that their non english speaking places on them, their gender and so on.

If you can't speak the language of the country you have made home then you have limitations placed upon yourself and you are isolated.

People from places like Poland are taught nglish in school, people who immigrate, or originate in other countries aren't. Also many people who need the use of interpreters aren't immigrants but asylum seekers. I doubt whether learning English is the top of the priorities of people attempting to escape persecution.

[Johnoco]

Come on, very few of these migrants are fleeing persecution. Most are here for economic or marriage reasons.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

anyway, what should this culture that is better than multiculturalism consist of?
How is it possible to impose it?

How will thousands of years of multiculturalism be unravelled?

[l'angelo mysterioso]

Come on, very few of these migrants are fleeing persecution. Most are here for economic or marriage reasons.

immigrants mostly come here for economic reasons. But there is also another strand of incomers who are asylum seekers with a different status and different issues: that's all I was saying.

[MikeW]

one of the worst countries to be a woman if you don't want to get battered by your partner is New Zealand.

A good example of where immigrants are not to blame.