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Hawks Prayers Answered with Achurch


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#201 Ponterover

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 12:12 AM

Here's one thing I've always struggled with Parky:

Why can't a major city like Leeds support 2 top flight teams?

A small city like Hull manage it, with a recent PL Wendyball team in the mix, so why can't the 4th or 5th city of the island, with no recent soccer success do it?

#202 Terry Mullaney

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 01:07 AM

That's a robust reply Terry, to counter my robust defence of my club but I'm stunned you are getting in the debate when at the end of the day you insist your off to Superleague?

What are you are seemingly saying to me is "enjoy the way the rules are now because in a very short time they will be changed and you will be in the brown stuff again".

Isn't that incredibly mean in itself? Are you going to look down at the Championship when your in Superleague and have a little snigger that Hunslet are back to losing all the time and holding closure meetings?

What is "fine" about the Championship?, is it "fine" because your at the top of it all the time?

Is it a fine Championship when Fev put 68 and 54 points past us in one sided games??

I suppose the likes of Donny. Workington, Whitehaven, Swinton, Hunslet and York should just remain cannon fodder for Rovers until Rovers either go up or these clubs fold?

Clearly you don't care if these clubs collapse, but it's a bit rich when you go round wanting people to be sympathetic about your own clubs advancement?

You couldn't be more wrong about my thoughts on the game Parky. I'm sorry you see it that way.
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#203 The Parksider

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:01 AM

You couldn't be more wrong about my thoughts on the game Parky. I'm sorry you see it that way.


Don't be sorry you big mean softy, answer the charge :lol:

It's a robust debate!

Edited by The Parksider, 08 March 2013 - 07:24 AM.


#204 The Parksider

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:01 AM

Double

Edited by The Parksider, 08 March 2013 - 07:02 AM.


#205 roughyedspud

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:10 AM

sorry but how does having 4 or 5 DR players " save" a lower league team??

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#206 The Parksider

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:18 AM

Here's one thing I've always struggled with Parky:

Why can't a major city like Leeds support 2 top flight teams?

A small city like Hull manage it, with a recent PL Wendyball team in the mix, so why can't the 4th or 5th city of the island, with no recent soccer success do it?



Events dear boy.

Hunslets main support base was from walking distance when people couldn’t even afford the tram and that included inner east Leeds and Holbeck. Late fifties the housing was cleared and local heavy industries like mills mines and foundries died away. Within 15 years crowds of thousands became Hundreds.

The regeneration of the area was very slow and it’s still happening today. New people coming in were more mobile as cars were coming on the scene and there was more money in the pocket for public transport so Leeds with their consistent on field success became an attraction to people all around the city.
Generations passed and each new generation became blue and amber.

Forget soccer. In Hull, HullFC got in SL and won the cup and went to the grand final. HKR were struggling and down to 1,000 fans at one point. Then their “event” happened in Neil Hudgell.

Would you think that if no rich man had rescued Rovers, and they'd stayed poor in the championship for the resultant 40 years whilst FC were doing well in Superlgeague, they’d still exist in any more healthy a way Hunslet do today?

That’s the answer.

Edited by The Parksider, 08 March 2013 - 07:22 AM.


#207 The Parksider

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:21 AM

sorry but how does having 4 or 5 DR players " save" a lower league team??


Saves on wages AFAIK?

Having a whole team on DR may save the whole wage bill :D .

It was also designed to attract more fans.

Not happened yet so it may not work!

Edited by The Parksider, 08 March 2013 - 07:24 AM.


#208 Terry Mullaney

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 10:24 AM

That's a robust reply Terry, to counter my robust defence of my club but I'm stunned you are getting in the debate when at the end of the day you insist your off to Superleague?

What are you are seemingly saying to me is "enjoy the way the rules are now because in a very short time they will be changed and you will be in the brown stuff again".

Isn't that incredibly mean in itself? Are you going to look down at the Championship when your in Superleague and have a little snigger that Hunslet are back to losing all the time and holding closure meetings?

What is "fine" about the Championship?, is it "fine" because your at the top of it all the time?

Is it a fine Championship when Fev put 68 and 54 points past us in one sided games??

I suppose the likes of Donny. Workington, Whitehaven, Swinton, Hunslet and York should just remain cannon fodder for Rovers until Rovers either go up or these clubs fold?

Clearly you don't care if these clubs collapse, but it's a bit rich when you go round wanting people to be sympathetic about your own clubs advancement?

Parky, you twist everything to suit your stance.

When and where have I ever insisted Rovers are heading for SL? I wish I was that confident. If I say I care for the game as a whole you accuse me of coming over as 'holier than thou' So what's the point of me wasting my time debating the issue?

In previous post I've told you that I want to see a competition that is worthy of being called The Championship rather than being regarded as an A Team league which is the direction you and your club is wrongly taking it.

I've thoroughly enjoyed Championship RL for the past 17 years watching my club home and away despite some terrible times. We've only been a force for the last four of those 17 years and I make no apologies for the elation I feel about the remarkable rise, on and off the field, of my club. But gloating about it is not my style Parky.

The popular theory that a sudden injection of wealth is behind Rovers recent success is a myth. Other clubs could and indeed have emulated Rovers' strategy and, as a result, have raised the standard of the competition tremendously particularly amongst the top half. That's what's fine about the Championship, its seeing clubs get off their backsides and raising the bar by doing things properly to become better all round organisations through their own endeavours. If Hunslet feel they can't succeed in Championship rugby by hard graft and good business acumen then perhaps they shouldn't be part of it. They certainly have no right to drag the successful clubs down to A team level.
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#209 roughyedspud

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 10:35 AM

oldham coach scott naylor has said something interesting regarding team selection this weekend

THE line-up Scott Naylor believes will best serve Oldham against derby rivals Rochdale Hornets will comprise of 17 players who are committed to Roughyeds for the full season.

If there are any dual registered men in Sunday's Northern Rail Cup clash at Whitebank (3pm) they will be wearing the red, white and blue of the visitors.

They won't be playing for Oldham, Naylor having decided that a clannish feud over the back fence between warring neighbours is fuelled by local pride and is no place for reinforcements from out of town.

"A local derby is something very different; something very special," said the Roughyeds boss, who played for Bradford Bulls in many a full-house battle with local rivals Leeds Rhinos.

Last week, at North Wales Crusaders, he used four players on secondment from partner club Salford City Reds in a 48-12 defeat.

More City Reds men were made available to him this week, but Naylor opted instead for those who took the Law Cup with them to Spotland last month and brought it home again, red and white ribbons attached, after a hard-fought 22-20 triumph.

He said: "I won't be using dual-reg players in this game. I know what a good result will mean to the Oldham players, club and fans so I'm going for our own boys to deliver it.

"Salford have injury problems, including knocks to two of the four players who helped us out last week.


"They still offered us players, but I think it suited both clubs for us to go it alone this weekend."


why is this game different than any other game?

us fans want players that are 100% committed every game....

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#210 The Parksider

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 10:54 AM

1. What's the point of me wasting my time debating the issue?

2. I've thoroughly enjoyed Championship RL for the past 17 years watching my club home and away despite some terrible times. We've only been a force for the last four of those 17 years and I make no apologies for the elation I feel about the remarkable rise, on and off the field, of my club. The popular theory that a sudden injection of wealth is behind Rovers recent success is a myth. Other clubs could and indeed have emulated Rovers' strategy and, as a result, have raised the standard of the competition tremendously particularly amongst the top half. That's what's fine about the Championship, its seeing clubs get off their backsides and raising the bar by doing things properly to become better all round organisations through their own endeavours. If Hunslet feel they can't succeed in Championship rugby by hard graft and good business acumen then perhaps they shouldn't be part of it. They certainly have no right to drag the successful clubs down to A team level.


1. :D If there was no point you would not have come back at me. Like me you like a good argument about this great game. Like me you can keep it amicable.

2. When you say "The popular theory that a sudden injection of wealth is behind Rovers recent success is a myth" are you sure?
It was some time ago when Mark Campbell recounted how after putting £100,000 into Rovers getting them out of CC1 and up the Championship he got a mouthful from fans?

Griff has kindly outlined how Rovers have made losses to fund improvements. Now Mr. Nahaboo has put £100,000 in and pledges to fund full salary cap.

There's FOUR injections of "wealth".

What is a myth Terry is that just because one club can get to the top of the Championship they all can, conditions like no longer having a crowd due to prolonged difficulties in the face of SL competition like Bramley and Hunslet have suffered means these clubs cannot do it and I take your point - they maybe should not be in the Championship.

Your club is a club run by businessmen with money (see above) clubs like Swinton, York, and Rochdale are now run by supporters. They can't hope to compete against Businessmen who can slide a few grand in whenever problems arise, and keep your club at the end of the table where you can win matches and get a crowd.

Maybe these clubs should not be in the Championship either.

Indeed a look at what we have left for the Championship to be a vibrant league is.....

Featherstone
Leigh
Barrow??
Sheffield
Batley
Dewsbury
Keighley??
Halifax
Workington??
Whitehaven??
Doncaster??

That's only eleven clubs at best and TBH I do not know if some of these may be in debt or hand to mouth.

You say "what's fine about the Championship, its seeing clubs get off their backsides and raising the bar by doing things properly to become better all round organisations through their own endeavours".

Which clubs have not got off their backsides?? Gav's York have been off their backsides and working hard for years? Is Blackpool Hawk a lazy old bird?? How about Worky, Haven, Barrow and Donny?? Lazy bu&&ers were they when they worked their socks off to get out of CC1??

The 14 club Championship we all craved on here has come and it isn't the competition we would like it to be too many of the clubs are struggling badly, and ARE working hard.

It's just that they didn't have a Mark Campbell come along, they don't have an overdraft facility at the bank and they don't have Mr. Nahaboo popping in a hundred grand just for starters, promising more and getting the fans in on that promise.

I think your wrong to go round saying what Rovers achieved was just through "hard work", and I think your wrong to indicate struggling clubs are lazy.

Oh and here's a big smile :D no offence, just a debate.....

Edited by The Parksider, 08 March 2013 - 10:58 AM.


#211 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 10:57 AM

Parky, you twist everything to suit your stance.

When and where have I ever insisted Rovers are heading for SL? I wish I was that confident. If I say I care for the game as a whole you accuse me of coming over as 'holier than thou' So what's the point of me wasting my time debating the issue?

In previous post I've told you that I want to see a competition that is worthy of being called The Championship rather than being regarded as an A Team league which is the direction you and your club is wrongly taking it.

I've thoroughly enjoyed Championship RL for the past 17 years watching my club home and away despite some terrible times. We've only been a force for the last four of those 17 years and I make no apologies for the elation I feel about the remarkable rise, on and off the field, of my club. But gloating about it is not my style Parky.

The popular theory that a sudden injection of wealth is behind Rovers recent success is a myth. Other clubs could and indeed have emulated Rovers' strategy and, as a result, have raised the standard of the competition tremendously particularly amongst the top half. That's what's fine about the Championship, its seeing clubs get off their backsides and raising the bar by doing things properly to become better all round organisations through their own endeavours. If Hunslet feel they can't succeed in Championship rugby by hard graft and good business acumen then perhaps they shouldn't be part of it. They certainly have no right to drag the successful clubs down to A team level.


smug, arrogant-I can't decie which, maybe both.
Clubs like Rovers have raised the bar because they had to. Why hav they had to? because of the conditions set out for them by the governing body ehich dictt wht hey hav to do to progress into th elite competiion. Without those conditions Roverswould have been promoted witout having to improve thei facilities, develop their community pgrammes and player pathways, organies their finances properly and so on. What would have bee the outcome of this short lived opportunity to 'rub shoulders with he big boys' as someone once said. I shudder to think. I'm glad you think that what is now in place is 'doing things properly' progress indeed.

But the bit thta realy sticks in hte craw is this

" If Hunslet feel they can't succeed in Championship rugby by hard graft and good business acumen then perhaps they shouldn't be part of it. They certainly have no right to drag the successful clubs down to A team level."

now that is arrogant and smug.

To suggest that people like those who are working their backsides of at places like Hunslet are 'dragging the more sucessful clubs down', aren't putting in 'hard graft' and have no 'business acumen' is apalling.
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#212 The Parksider

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:11 AM

Clubs like Rovers have raised the bar because they had to. Why have they had to? because of the conditions set out for them by the governing body which dictate what they have to do to progress into the elite competion.


So all I see is Campbell putting money in and then the club going into debt to fund a crack at Superleague, and Nahaboo coming in and putting more money in. All the stuff they are doing is for a license not to be a shining beacon to other Championship clubs.

When you have money men buying the best players in the CC and talking up Superleague seriously your bound to attract fans? Is this through just plain hard work?

Last time Hunslet were top of the CC in 2000 with money men at the helm and going for Superleague we were getting crowds as good as Featherstone. I didn't pretend then it was all "hard work" and people "getting off their backsides"

I hope Roves get in SL but if they didn't and Campbell and Nahaboo left and the club had to be run by supporters then we'd see how well they could do against the SL rejects like Halifax, Leigh, Hunslet, Dewsbury etc? with all this hard work against the laziness of others :)

#213 Terry Mullaney

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:12 AM

1. :D If there was no point you would not have come back at me. Like me you like a good argument about this great game. Like me you can keep it amicable.

2. When you say "The popular theory that a sudden injection of wealth is behind Rovers recent success is a myth" are you sure?
It was some time ago when Mark Campbell recounted how after putting £100,000 into Rovers getting them out of CC1 and up the Championship he got a mouthful from fans?

Griff has kindly outlined how Rovers have made losses to fund improvements. Now Mr. Nahaboo has put £100,000 in and pledges to fund full salary cap.

There's FOUR injections of "wealth".

What is a myth Terry is that just because one club can get to the top of the Championship they all can, conditions like no longer having a crowd due to prolonged difficulties in the face of SL competition like Bramley and Hunslet have suffered means these clubs cannot do it and I take your point - they maybe should not be in the Championship.

Your club is a club run by businessmen with money (see above) clubs like Swinton, York, and Rochdale are now run by supporters. They can't hope to compete against Businessmen who can slide a few grand in whenever problems arise, and keep your club at the end of the table where you can win matches and get a crowd.

Maybe these clubs should not be in the Championship either.

Indeed a look at what we have left for the Championship to be a vibrant league is.....

Featherstone
Leigh
Barrow??
Sheffield
Batley
Dewsbury
Keighley??
Halifax
Workington??
Whitehaven??
Doncaster??

That's only eleven clubs at best and TBH I do not know if some of these may be in debt or hand to mouth.

You say "what's fine about the Championship, its seeing clubs get off their backsides and raising the bar by doing things properly to become better all round organisations through their own endeavours".

Which clubs have not got off their backsides?? Gav's York have been off their backsides and working hard for years? Is Blackpool Hawk a lazy old bird?? How about Worky, Haven, Barrow and Donny?? Lazy bu&&ers were they when they worked their socks off to get out of CC1??

The 14 club Championship we all craved on here has come and it isn't the competition we would like it to be too many of the clubs are struggling badly, and ARE working hard.

It's just that they didn't have a Mark Campbell come along, they don't have an overdraft facility at the bank and they don't have Mr. Nahaboo popping in a hundred grand just for starters, promising more and getting the fans in on that promise.

I think your wrong to go round saying what Rovers achieved was just through "hard work", and I think your wrong to indicate struggling clubs are lazy.

Oh and here's a big smile :D no offence, just a debate.....

No offence taken but again Parky, where have I said that Hunslet aren't doing the best they can? What I said was, if they dont think they can possibly progressr despite their efforts then perhaps they shouldn't be in the Championship. I'm pleased you agreed. Name the money men behind Batley, Leigh and current champions, Sheffield. How did they become successful over recent years?

I enjoy a good debate but I'm not sticking around to be insulted, and I'm not referring to you Parky. We don't often agree but at least our debates are respectful and dignified.

Edited by Terry Mullaney, 08 March 2013 - 11:32 AM.

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#214 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 12:19 PM

So all I see is Campbell putting money in and then the club going into debt to fund a crack at Superleague, and Nahaboo coming in and putting more money in. All the stuff they are doing is for a license not to be a shining beacon to other Championship clubs.

When you have money men buying the best players in the CC and talking up Superleague seriously your bound to attract fans? Is this through just plain hard work?

Last time Hunslet were top of the CC in 2000 with money men at the helm and going for Superleague we were getting crowds as good as Featherstone. I didn't pretend then it was all "hard work" and people "getting off their backsides"

I hope Roves get in SL but if they didn't and Campbell and Nahaboo left and the club had to be run by supporters then we'd see how well they could do against the SL rejects like Halifax, Leigh, Hunslet, Dewsbury etc? with all this hard work against the laziness of others :)


quite

the people at the Hawk and other clubs are just as committed and able as those at te 'bigger clubs' Ian Johnson is a friend of mine, andI know others involved in runnng teclub past and present-remember 'Big Al',andof course there are people a other clubs who are the sam. When I see hard working. passionate people dismissedand disparged in this way it makes me angry.

Edited by l'angelo mysterioso, 08 March 2013 - 12:24 PM.

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#215 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 12:22 PM

No offence taken but again Parky, where have I said that Hunslet aren't doing the best they can? What I said was, if they dont think they can possibly progressr despite their efforts then perhaps they shouldn't be in the Championship. I'm pleased you agreed. Name the money men behind Batley, Leigh and current champions, Sheffield. How did they become successful over recent years?

I enjoy a good debate but I'm not sticking around to be insulted, and I'm not referring to you Parky. We don't often agree but at least our debates are respectful and dignified.

nobody has insulted you

you have insulted some great people-not just at Hunslet


" If Hunslet feel they can't succeed in Championship rugby by hard graft and good business acumen then perhaps they shouldn't be part of it. They certainly have no right to drag the successful clubs down to A team level."

you have said similar things on other threads.

Edited by l'angelo mysterioso, 08 March 2013 - 12:23 PM.

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#216 keighley

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 02:02 PM

1. Hunslet do not represent Hunslet, any more than Everton represent Everton. For the vast majority of their history they have pitched the club to all the good people of Leeds. They wear the Leeds University colours to show this. They are a Leeds club. The fact is Leeds simply got the name first.

2. You really should appreciate that the problems Hunslet have, and York had, Bramley had, Oldham and Rochdale have in spades, Swinton have serious problems and have had them for years, Donny too, Whitehaven etc

You and Terry are trying to talk like all these clubs are just lazy and don't want to work hard, and are ruining a good competition because it's an easy way to compete. But I suppose when Terry's club is on the up he can afford to be holier than thou, as for you you resent the way the game has gone and the loss of opportunity for your club who has sold out just like my club.

No need to take it out on my club just because they are making the most of things. For the record Hunslet are not helping ruin the Championship, the SKY contract is doing that.


Whatever.

#217 keighley

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 02:21 PM

Events dear boy.

Hunslets main support base was from walking distance when people couldn’t even afford the tram and that included inner east Leeds and Holbeck. Late fifties the housing was cleared and local heavy industries like mills mines and foundries died away. Within 15 years crowds of thousands became Hundreds.

The regeneration of the area was very slow and it’s still happening today. New people coming in were more mobile as cars were coming on the scene and there was more money in the pocket for public transport so Leeds with their consistent on field success became an attraction to people all around the city.
Generations passed and each new generation became blue and amber.

Forget soccer. In Hull, HullFC got in SL and won the cup and went to the grand final. HKR were struggling and down to 1,000 fans at one point. Then their “event” happened in Neil Hudgell.

Would you think that if no rich man had rescued Rovers, and they'd stayed poor in the championship for the resultant 40 years whilst FC were doing well in Superlgeague, they’d still exist in any more healthy a way Hunslet do today?

That’s the answer.


You can't have it both ways.


I am posting your comments from post #200

1. Hunslet do not represent Hunslet, any more than Everton represent Everton. For the vast majority of their history they have pitched the club to all the good people of Leeds. They wear the Leeds University colours to show this. They are a Leeds club. The fact is Leeds simply got the name first.

If they are Leeds club then there is a constituency out there for them to be A SL club. If they represent only the Hunslet area then there is no chance of them being a SKL club.

You want your cake and eat it too. You turn and twist in the wind to suit your argument. Which is your actual position here?

#218 keighley

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 02:23 PM

Parky, you twist everything to suit your stance.

When and where have I ever insisted Rovers are heading for SL? I wish I was that confident. If I say I care for the game as a whole you accuse me of coming over as 'holier than thou' So what's the point of me wasting my time debating the issue?

In previous post I've told you that I want to see a competition that is worthy of being called The Championship rather than being regarded as an A Team league which is the direction you and your club is wrongly taking it.

I've thoroughly enjoyed Championship RL for the past 17 years watching my club home and away despite some terrible times. We've only been a force for the last four of those 17 years and I make no apologies for the elation I feel about the remarkable rise, on and off the field, of my club. But gloating about it is not my style Parky.

The popular theory that a sudden injection of wealth is behind Rovers recent success is a myth. Other clubs could and indeed have emulated Rovers' strategy and, as a result, have raised the standard of the competition tremendously particularly amongst the top half. That's what's fine about the Championship, its seeing clubs get off their backsides and raising the bar by doing things properly to become better all round organisations through their own endeavours. If Hunslet feel they can't succeed in Championship rugby by hard graft and good business acumen then perhaps they shouldn't be part of it. They certainly have no right to drag the successful clubs down to A team level.


Top post. Exactly right.

#219 The Parksider

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 02:30 PM

Name the money men behind Batley, Leigh and current champions, Sheffield. How did they become successful over recent years?

I enjoy a good debate but I'm not sticking around to be insulted, and I'm not referring to you Parky. We don't often agree but at least our debates are respectful and dignified.


I agreed with you maybe Hunslet should not be in the Championship if they cannot progress as an independant club.

But my point was how many independent clubs CAN progress in the Championship?

It seems clear only five have decided they can stay independant Terry, and one is at the bottom now. and so you cannot really have a four club Championship.

OK have four clubs battle it out every year and the other ten try to avoid relegation but I'm afraid this "Fine, worthy and enjoyable championship" just isn't that. It's not what we wanted.

As for Batley, Leigh and Sheffield they have run without obvious money men, but I do not have any information on directors loans at these clubs (Griff may?) nor do I know the debts and overdrafts they may be running at/ Blackpool Hawk mentioned Leigh may be in money problems.

I did suggest in my reply that where clubs have businessmen in charge they can often get overdrafts, loans and chuck a grand or two in where needed, clubs run by supporters trusts probably can't do this as hard as they work.....

#220 The Parksider

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 02:45 PM

If Hunslet are a Leeds club then there is a constituency out there for them to be an SL club. If they represent only the Hunslet area then there is no chance of them being a SL club.

You want your cake and eat it too. You turn and twist in the wind to suit your argument. Which is your actual position here?


Why invite me to give you my actual position AFTER you have made two criticisms of my position?

Calm down and let's have a reasoned debate.

They've always strived to attract fans from all over and certainly from Leeds, as early as the folding of Holbeck and Leeds Parish Church fans from those areas have been attracted to Hunslet and if Leeds had continued to be a second division club as they were around that time then today the south Leeds Stadium may well be on Albert Goldthorpe Way rather than John Charles way and may have 20,000 capacity rather than a 2,000 capacity.

I do not understand you trying to box the club into either Hunslet boundaries or Leeds boundaries?

All clubs will reach out to anyone anywhere to come and support them.

Our problem is obvious. When you say to Leeds people come and watch Hunslet they say "No thanks we watch Leeds". When we say to Hunslet people "come and watch your club your from Hunslet" they say "No I am not from Hunslet".

There is a constituency for us to attract fans but we have nothing to attract them with playing amateurs in CC1 and certainly not when we are up against Leeds.

I am puzzled why you don't get this???




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