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Hawks Prayers Answered with Achurch


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#41 shaun mc

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 12:23 AM

Hunslet like Swinton have lost their independance and simply are just a dumping ground for Leeds and Warrington players who either are not good enough for SL or coming back from injury. And is this really helping Swinton and Hunslet, with nobody really knowing if which players they will have from one week to the next. It cant be good for team spirit with players simply being dropped for Bridge, Moore, Achurch etc for no real reason. And maybe a good young lad released at the end of the season by his SL club thinks I wont join Hunslet or Swinton as they just drop their own players so a Leeds/Warrington lad gets a run out. Swinton and Hunslet are still down the bottom even with all the Leeds and Warrington players they have. The original purpose was to offer young Brits the chance to play at a higher standard than the old academy. Instead the BS given out by SL clubs and the RFL is now clear. Championship clubs are slowly being used as a dumping ground. Personally I hope Swinton and Hunslet are relegated as they for me have both made a real joke of the DR system way more than others. Others like Workington for example are doing it properly and using just one or two Young players and not taking Widnes first teamers even though they have been offered


Good post LRL.
Acurch is borderline DR - he was brought over, hasn't come up to scratch, debatable whether he makes the Rhinos 17, so he needs another outlet to develop.
Hello Leeds Reserve team set-up.
Oh no we've ditched it to save some money. So he'll have to go to another team who are clutching at straws for a leg-up the table. Or maybe they are told to take the player.
How does Achurch tie up with the Championship number of overseas players quota, nevermind the salary cap, which 4 weeks into the season has been rendered obsolete.

#42 roughyedspud

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 12:33 AM

we should'nt be bringing over aussies that still need "developing" !!!!

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#43 The Parksider

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 07:41 AM

Hunslet like Swinton have lost their independance and simply are just a dumping ground for Leeds and Warrington players who either are not good enough for SL or coming back from injury. And is this really helping Hunslet.


Of course it's helping Hunslet.

Don't you listen?

Blackpool Hawk says it's this or it's die.

Yes the club has lost it's independence, because of how the game has gone.

It can't exist as an independent club any more.

So it can either fold, and I went to a meeting a few years back when Stephen Ball discussed with us whether the club should fold or try to carry on........

Or it can carry on with dependence on Leeds.

Personally I'd leave it to fold, but 400 people don't agree so that's me outvoted :D

#44 Dave T

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 08:43 AM

we should'nt be bringing over aussies that still need "developing" !!!!

and handing them a 4 year contract!

#45 roughyedspud

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 08:48 AM

he's not worth the air fare over here let alone a 4 year contract

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#46 Lounge Room Lizard

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 09:19 AM

Of course it's helping Hunslet.

Don't you listen?

Blackpool Hawk says it's this or it's die.

Yes the club has lost it's independence, because of how the game has gone.

It can't exist as an independent club any more.

So it can either fold, and I went to a meeting a few years back when Stephen Ball discussed with us whether the club should fold or try to carry on........

Or it can carry on with dependence on Leeds.

Personally I'd leave it to fold, but 400 people don't agree so that's me outvoted :D


Thats just hysteria saying they would fold. How have Gateshead and London Skolars for example survived for so long.getting at best a couple of hundred people and do way more travelling than Hunslet do and have more costs over the years?For me its just a smokescreen. Its often the poor business management that Hunslet amongst others have done that sees them where they are. I do feel certain clubs are looking for a short lazy way to be more competitive. The fact is they wont be as they are just taking short cuts instead of doing things properly. Hunslet and Swinton dont need to lose their identity as shown by Workington for example. Its just an excuse and easy to say we need Leeds to survive

#47 The Parksider

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 09:30 AM

I'm afraid your in denial that your club is now just an extension of Leeds Rhinos, and your clubs proud history of being Hunslet is no longer to be continued.


Well I agree with you that Hunslet is becoming an extension of Leeds, but so what? What is it to you Kid?

As a club they are down to about 400 fans interested in coming to games and paying to follow the team.

Last year we won TWO games, we are not strong enough to play Championship as an independent club.

If the club drop to Championship One the figures won't stack up and we will fold. The end chapter of our history can then be written and the book closed.

For ALL clubs ever since victorian days when they enticed ringers from the next town to play it's always been about doing what you can to climb up the ladder and climb over those above you and stand on the heads of those below you to get as far up as you can.

So over the years clubs have done anything they can to get the advantage. Enticing players with gifts and money, giving them jobs, looking to players from abroad, taking DR players, filling your team with Australians or Kiwis, and now doubling as an SL "A" team to get the advantage.

For those who fear they will be "climbed over" it's all so unfair, it's all so "boo hoo this isn't right". Out come the moralistic arguments about players noses being pushed out and them being left in the stands. Jeez when HKR went up a bunch of Aussies pushed half the team out. Then there's the "this isn't development" stuff. So what? Hood Watson Singleton and Kleinhorst WILL do well playing top championship sides, and if Richard Moore comes along too then great.

The plan of course is to get Hunslets crowds up to 500, 600 or whatever and maximise an income stream that Leeds can take advantage of. Certainly most of the fans who still follow Hunslet won't go to Leeds. Many don't live near Hunslet anyway, and so Hetherington can get the Hunslet support to benefit his club this other way. It's typical Hetherington and it's quite smart (and wether I like it or not it's really smart)

So all you clubs and fans that are scared the mighty Parksiders will be standing on your heads this time next year tough. It's no different to what all clubs have had to live and to compete with in various forms over the years, and don't expect others to shed any tears for you. I was there when Bramley died, I was there when York played their last game. I didn't see anyone bothered then, so don't expect "sympathy" this is pro sport.

#48 The Parksider

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 09:40 AM

1. Thats just hysteria saying they would fold.

2. Its often the poor business management that Hunslet amongst others have done that sees them where they are.

3. I do feel certain clubs are looking for a short lazy way to be more competitive.


1. So Blackpool Hawk is a liar, and Stephen Ball hadn't a clue about finances.

2. Don't talk rubbish. "Good management" doesn't guarantee any commercial organisation success. The fact is fans don't want to watch the club losing all the time, sponsors won't sponsor Hunslet and decent players don't want to sign.

It's a lazy argument to just point to Skolars and Gateshead and say "they can do it". They exist away from the M62 and they have their own ways of surviving that can't always be emulated in places like Hunslet where the Warriors/Leeds can take support and can attract local sponsorship away from Hunslet.

Bramley were managed by businessmen who did all they could and had to give up. They weren't "poor managers", Ronnie Teeman went to great lengths to explain all the pressures that led to the clubs demise. Then in came management that worked very hard and very smart, but I haven't noticed Bramley back in the Championship have you??

3. Here's the short lazy way - find a rich man
Here's another short lazy way - sign a load of Aussies (erm with a rich man)

What is the noble hard working and long way Hunslet should take then??

Yours is a lazy post as you don't say, you just criticise?

You tell the club on here what they SHOULD be doing - go on I dare you :D

Edited by The Parksider, 02 March 2013 - 10:44 AM.


#49 shaun mc

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 09:50 AM

This cannot help Hunslet in the long tem. DR players such as Moore and Achurch may give them a leg-up in the short term and they may win a few more games.
But if the DR players are seen to develop in their time at Hunslet then they will be back off to Leeds and Hunslet have to start again with players of a lower standard from next years crop, or others that they just get a few games out of to aid Leeds in keeping their match fitness up.
If comments on the Swinton board are anything to go by the whole system is splitting fans down the middle and these clubs may have less fans in the end than they do now.
If the arrangement is at the whim of the parent club who hold all the cards then only short term gain can be accrued for a few games to stave off relegation. This does nothing for for long term sustainability. It could all change either this season or next though I think that the RFL will be pig-headed about it this season and sit back and refuse to revise the system.

#50 The Parksider

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 10:43 AM

1. This cannot help Hunslet in the long term. If the DR players are seen to develop in their time at Hunslet then they will be back off to Leeds and Hunslet have to start again with players of a lower standard from next years crop

2. If comments on the Swinton board are anything to go by the whole system is splitting fans down the middle and these clubs may have less fans in the end than they do now.


1. What will help Hunslet in the long term then Shaun???????.

Lizzy talks about good management and others talk about "hard work".

I suppose Lizzy thought York's 2002 board were "poor management" and just lazy when they folded the club mid season after a last home gate of 280 fans?

York came back with an enthusiastic new management who have applied drive and hard work to the club, York could have not been better blessed by these people, but after the initial surge forward, they ended last year below Hunslet in the table, with one win only
and an average crowd only 100 more than the part season when they folded.

The conditions under which championship clubs are trading today are very very very (and more veries) hard, and many of these clubs may have no long term future, and NO "good management" and "hard work" will NOT get many of these clubs out of the mire.

But those more fortunate who are lucky they still have chairmen with a few quid to stave off their clubs demise can criticise and moan all they want. The fact is this is about survival not growth.

To answer your point Hunslet envisage (and Eaton said this) Leeds signing the best players they can, and Hunslet being part of the Leeds development system. Ideally I assume the kids play scholarship, move to higher age academy teams then move on to Hunslet who also provide game time for the Leeds first team fringe players and either they then go to Leeds first team, sign for Hunslet or get struck off.

There's no "starting again" Hunslet are just part of a very successful player development system.

2. This is the key Shaun I posted some crowds for CC matches this year where you could see a drop in attendances for DR clubs this year, however it is early yet, and the weather may have been the problem.

Time will tell, but if Hunslet continue to pull 500 crowds and keep a decent deal going at SLS then with Leeds providing the players and some competitiveness then the club will be secure year on year.

Sure, if at some clubs attendances go so low they can't pay the bills then that will be the end of it. But please don't then go round saying that these tie ups killed the clubs, there was no such tie up when Bramley went, there were no such tie ups when York folded, there were no such tie ups when Hunslet very nearly called it a day.

Id recommend people read "RUGBY LEAGUE WORLD" this month. Hunslet make their current position (which shifted from the original one significantly :lol: :lol: :lol: ) clear.

Sheffield made their position clear. They don't want their fans to be offered fixtures against what he sees as SL "A" teams. I'm not sure Mr. Swire is worried about RL youth development so much as his gate receipts.

#51 RSN

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 11:19 AM

Well I agree with you that Hunslet is becoming an extension of Leeds, but so what? What is it to you Kid?

As a club they are down to about 400 fans interested in coming to games and paying to follow the team.

Last year we won TWO games, we are not strong enough to play Championship as an independent club.

If the club drop to Championship One the figures won't stack up and we will fold. The end chapter of our history can then be written and the book closed.

For ALL clubs ever since victorian days when they enticed ringers from the next town to play it's always been about doing what you can to climb up the ladder and climb over those above you and stand on the heads of those below you to get as far up as you can.

So over the years clubs have done anything they can to get the advantage. Enticing players with gifts and money, giving them jobs, looking to players from abroad, taking DR players, filling your team with Australians or Kiwis, and now doubling as an SL "A" team to get the advantage.

For those who fear they will be "climbed over" it's all so unfair, it's all so "boo hoo this isn't right". Out come the moralistic arguments about players noses being pushed out and them being left in the stands. Jeez when HKR went up a bunch of Aussies pushed half the team out. Then there's the "this isn't development" stuff. So what? Hood Watson Singleton and Kleinhorst WILL do well playing top championship sides, and if Richard Moore comes along too then great.

The plan of course is to get Hunslets crowds up to 500, 600 or whatever and maximise an income stream that Leeds can take advantage of. Certainly most of the fans who still follow Hunslet won't go to Leeds. Many don't live near Hunslet anyway, and so Hetherington can get the Hunslet support to benefit his club this other way. It's typical Hetherington and it's quite smart (and wether I like it or not it's really smart)

So all you clubs and fans that are scared the mighty Parksiders will be standing on your heads this time next year tough. It's no different to what all clubs have had to live and to compete with in various forms over the years, and don't expect others to shed any tears for you. I was there when Bramley died, I was there when York played their last game. I didn't see anyone bothered then, so don't expect "sympathy" this is pro sport.


Didn't state there was anything wrong with it, if its what you have to do to survive its what you've got to do. But Russ was putting statements claiming that the way DR is being used now is the same as it was used when it clearly isn't. If he ignores my points made and throws a cheeky irrelevant dig then I might as well tell him how it is.

As you pretty much state this whole exercise is to primarily benefit SL, the fact it helps floundering Championship clubs is just a bonus.

Personally I think this system blatantly points to a 2 tier 20 SL. Have the 5 independant clubs go up and then add another french team in there. Then have the reserve team style structure at clubs where necessary. Hopefully a club from another expansion area would be able to make the step up to semi pro level and have 2 divisions of 12 or one big division of 24. It would all have to be up to sky though I guess.

Surely a Championship club not being sustainable enough to survive shouldn't be a reason to hinder the progress of one which can, that surely doesn't sound right. Maybe the fact it benefits SL club probably makes it sound right in the heads of the RFL.

#52 The Parksider

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 11:34 AM

Personally I think this system blatantly points to a 2 tier 20 SL. Have the 5 independant clubs go up and then add another french team in there. Then have the reserve team style structure at clubs where necessary. Hopefully a club from another expansion area would be able to make the step up to semi pro level and have 2 divisions of 12 or one big division of 24. It would all have to be up to sky though I guess.

Surely a Championship club not being sustainable enough to survive shouldn't be a reason to hinder the progress of one which can, that surely doesn't sound right. Maybe the fact it benefits SL club probably makes it sound right in the heads of the RFL.


Very interesting thoughts indeed.

2 x 20 would be an incredible policy change, I'd find the whole thing fascinating.

Would it work? Does it sell the championship clubs down the River? Will a second tier of SL flounder for the same reasons that the championship AS a second tier to SL has floundered?

Will Barrow be Champions once more? It'd be nice.......

Edited by The Parksider, 02 March 2013 - 11:34 AM.


#53 RSN

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 11:53 AM

Very interesting thoughts indeed.

2 x 20 would be an incredible policy change, I'd find the whole thing fascinating.

Would it work? Does it sell the championship clubs down the River? Will a second tier of SL flounder for the same reasons that the championship AS a second tier to SL has floundered?

Will Barrow be Champions once more? It'd be nice.......


There honestly isnt a way to predict if it would work or not.

The system would just seem to bridge a huge gap between SL and CC financially. I can't see how clubs coming from the Championship can start to turnover 4 - 5 million to be able to get a winning side and get gates up.



#54 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 12:03 PM

Of course it's helping Hunslet.

Don't you listen?

Blackpool Hawk says it's this or it's die.

Yes the club has lost it's independence, because of how the game has gone.

It can't exist as an independent club any more.

So it can either fold, and I went to a meeting a few years back when Stephen Ball discussed with us whether the club should fold or try to carry on........

Or it can carry on with dependence on Leeds.

Personally I'd leave it to fold, but 400 people don't agree so that's me outvoted :D


I was at that meeting

I don't agree that the hawks shoulkd be allowed to fold, as long as there are people with theability and the cash(ha!) to keep the club competeing. The main issue for me is the 'so we shall again' mentality' which sets people up for disappoinntment. The Hawks wont again. The world has changed, the game has changed, the demography of Leeds changed years ago. I see more Hunslet fans in the Lawnswood arms(usually two or three than) I see on the streets of Beeston,most people haven't supported Hunslet on the basis of living in South Leeds since almost forever.
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#55 roughyedspud

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 12:39 PM

surely its all about finding viable levels for clubs to exist and to compete on their own terms?? and not being forced into a thinly disguised "feeder club system" to help save the bigger clubs money...


surely the aim should be to make the championship & championship1 viable competitions in their own right and not something purely designed to serve the super league clubs??

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#56 Russ

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 12:43 PM

Didn't state there was anything wrong with it, if its what you have to do to survive its what you've got to do. But Russ was putting statements claiming that the way DR is being used now is the same as it was used when it clearly isn't. If he ignores my points made and throws a cheeky irrelevant dig then I might as well tell him how it is.

As you pretty much state this whole exercise is to primarily benefit SL, the fact it helps floundering Championship clubs is just a bonus.

Personally I think this system blatantly points to a 2 tier 20 SL. Have the 5 independant clubs go up and then add another french team in there. Then have the reserve team style structure at clubs where necessary. Hopefully a club from another expansion area would be able to make the step up to semi pro level and have 2 divisions of 12 or one big division of 24. It would all have to be up to sky though I guess.

Surely a Championship club not being sustainable enough to survive shouldn't be a reason to hinder the progress of one which can, that surely doesn't sound right. Maybe the fact it benefits SL club probably makes it sound right in the heads of the RFL.

I didnt mean to have a go at you as such but i really dont believe that Hunslet have lost their independence by using this system, the majority of Hunslets squad is made up of contracted Hunslet players and people saying Rhinos reserves are way off, apart from Moore what have Hunslet done any different this season to any other season when teams have used the system?

#57 Dave T

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 12:47 PM

I didnt mean to have a go at you as such but i really dont believe that Hunslet have lost their independence by using this system, the majority of Hunslets squad is made up of contracted Hunslet players and people saying Rhinos reserves are way off, apart from Moore what have Hunslet done any different this season to any other season when teams have used the system?

i find it strange when people suggest having 5 dr players means a club is a sl reserve side when that ignores the fact that the remaining 12 are that club's own players.

#58 keighley

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 01:55 PM

1. What will help Hunslet in the long term then Shaun???????.

Lizzy talks about good management and others talk about "hard work".

I suppose Lizzy thought York's 2002 board were "poor management" and just lazy when they folded the club mid season after a last home gate of 280 fans?

York came back with an enthusiastic new management who have applied drive and hard work to the club, York could have not been better blessed by these people, but after the initial surge forward, they ended last year below Hunslet in the table, with one win only
and an average crowd only 100 more than the part season when they folded.

The conditions under which championship clubs are trading today are very very very (and more veries) hard, and many of these clubs may have no long term future, and NO "good management" and "hard work" will NOT get many of these clubs out of the mire.

But those more fortunate who are lucky they still have chairmen with a few quid to stave off their clubs demise can criticise and moan all they want. The fact is this is about survival not growth.

To answer your point Hunslet envisage (and Eaton said this) Leeds signing the best players they can, and Hunslet being part of the Leeds development system. Ideally I assume the kids play scholarship, move to higher age academy teams then move on to Hunslet who also provide game time for the Leeds first team fringe players and either they then go to Leeds first team, sign for Hunslet or get struck off.

There's no "starting again" Hunslet are just part of a very successful player development system.

2. This is the key Shaun I posted some crowds for CC matches this year where you could see a drop in attendances for DR clubs this year, however it is early yet, and the weather may have been the problem.

Time will tell, but if Hunslet continue to pull 500 crowds and keep a decent deal going at SLS then with Leeds providing the players and some competitiveness then the club will be secure year on year.

Sure, if at some clubs attendances go so low they can't pay the bills then that will be the end of it. But please don't then go round saying that these tie ups killed the clubs, there was no such tie up when Bramley went, there were no such tie ups when York folded, there were no such tie ups when Hunslet very nearly called it a day.

Id recommend people read "RUGBY LEAGUE WORLD" this month. Hunslet make their current position (which shifted from the original one significantly :lol: :lol: :lol: ) clear.

Sheffield made their position clear. They don't want their fans to be offered fixtures against what he sees as SL "A" teams. I'm not sure Mr. Swire is worried about RL youth development so much as his gate receipts.


Hunslet would be better off going out with a bang than this long drawn whimper. A sad end.

#59 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 02:04 PM

Hunslet would be better off going out with a bang than this long drawn whimper. A sad end.


tell te people who ae working their nads off at the SLS that they are whimpering.
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#60 keighley

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 02:25 PM

tell te people who ae working their nads off at the SLS that they are whimpering.


They are working their asses off for the benefit of the Rhinos and the Rhinos secongd team.




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