43 replies to this topic

[JohnM]

OK, we've got to grips with the evils of smoking, though there is still some way to go. Now its the turn of drinkers as the minimum price debate grows in intensity. It has been said that becoming a vegetarian, abstaining from sex and alcohol and spending hours in the gym does not actually make you live longer...it just seems that way.

So what's next on the forbidden list?

[Johnoco]

I stopped listening to the 'experts' a few years back. They just make it up as they go along.

But then, they'd be out of a job if there was nothing to busybody about.

[Wolford6]

In the case of Bradford, and many other places, there's a huge impetus on getting people onto public transport. Not, of course, that they've got any intention of improving the bus and train services. No need when they can just block street entrances, put kerbs across pull-in bus stops, install speed bumps on all side streets, re-phase traffic lights, curtail town-centre parking and generally make the traffic system ever more congested for car drivers.

[Johnoco]

Bus fares are ridiculous. If there's 2 or 3 of you, its *cheaper* to club together and get a taxi into town (or most fairly short journeys) than wait for a bus that may or may not turn up.

[Severus]

Bus fares are ridiculous. If there's 2 or 3 of you, its *cheaper* to club together and get a taxi into town (or most fairly short journeys) than wait for a bus that may or may not turn up.

Aye. Costs me £3.10 to make the 5 mile journey into town. Not right.

Getting on my socialist soapbox for a minute, public transport should definitely be publicly owned and run. It makes no sense to have different private bus companies operating in the same area on the same routes. When a route isn't profitable they do their best to limit the number of busses to the bare minimum. OAP bus passes costs the tax payer much more than they ought to because these companies charge for a set number of journeys irrespective of whether these journeys are taken. Rail, bus and tram should all be run by a national transport agency owned by the taxpayer. Solidarity comrades.

Edited by Severus, 01 March 2013 - 07:22 PM.

[Bleep1673]

I once had a discussion with a vegetarian about what they would do with all the animals if they banned eating meat. Most farmers would either wholesale slaughter their livestock and turn their land over to arable farming, or they would keep some stock for under-the-counter, illegal, unregulated meat. This would no longer be monitored by the RSPCA and standards of farming & husbandary being reduced. We would also see more breeds becoming extinct, as PETA & other idiot, idealist organisations will never be able to keep livestocks as pets to the levels that would be sustainable.
I have a garden that according to RSPCA regulations is just big enough to keep a pig, if they became, such as in Phillip K. Dick's book" Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep", illegal, I would try and keep 2 in cramped, dirty and insanitary conditions that would be harmful for the animals and the meat.

Edited by Bleep1673, 01 March 2013 - 07:54 PM.

[T-Dub]

I once had a discussion with a vegetarian about what they would do with all the animals if they banned eating meat. Most farmers would either wholesale slaughter their livestock and turn their land over to arable farming, or they would keep some stock for under-the-counter, illegal, unregulated meat. This would no longer be monitored by the RSPCA and standards of farming & husbandary being reduced. We would also see more breeds becoming extinct, as PETA & other idiot, idealist organisations will never be able to keep livestocks as pets to the levels that would be sustainable.
I have a garden that according to RSPCA regulations is just big enough to keep a pig, if they became, such as in Phillip K. Dick's book" Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep", illegal, I would try and keep 2 in cramped, dirty and insanitary conditions that would be harmful for the animals and the meat.

Were you ###### at the time?
No sensible vegetarian would suggest any of the things possible you are suggesting

[Bleep1673]

Farmers need to make a living, they are not going to keep the animals as pets, or some kind of curiosity.

Cumberland sausages used to be made with the meat from the Cumberland breed pig, now it's made to a rough recipe, because the breed is extinct. (Not even made in what used to be called Cumberland.

Many other animals would go the same way because of economics in farming.

[T-Dub]

All true

I still dont want an animal to have an often rotten life then go through an abbatoir for me

Others may differ

[kioli]

Were you ###### at the time?
No sensible vegetarian would suggest any of the things possible you are suggesting

Now there are two words I never thought I see together.

[Old Frightful]

Now there are two words I never thought I see together.

Talking of putting words together, or rather, trying to...

[my missus]

on alchohol i think in the not to distant future we will be issued with a card that allows a limited number of units, much the same as the carbon allowance card that is already being planned.

[Severus]

on alchohol i think in the not to distant future we will be issued with a card that allows a limited number of units, much the same as the carbon allowance card that is already being planned.

I'm not so sure. It would be political suicide for any party suggesting that although I imagine that tax on alcohol could achieve a similar aim. Also, prohibition didn't work in the US and this would just create a black market in poor quality and dangerous products.

[gingerjon]

OK, we've got to grips with the evils of smoking, though there is still some way to go. Now its the turn of drinkers as the minimum price debate grows in intensity. It has been said that becoming a vegetarian, abstaining from sex and alcohol and spending hours in the gym does not actually make you live longer...it just seems that way.

I know a few of the people who've drafted the Alcohol Health Alliance report - and there are far more recommendations than just minimum pricing. As a rough summary, look at how alcohol is regulated in Sweden and that's what they've gone for.

Now, most of the authors aren't civil servants or special advisors or anything like that. They are people who have worked at the coal face. They've worked in addiction clinics, liver and GI wards, domestic violence centres and in general practice. And they have seen that alcohol in this country doesn't just affect other people, doesn't just affect the grubby unwashed but that it affects millions of people from all backgrounds, genders and geography. And, having tried to 'nudge' people to be sensible or realise that the tax and duty on a pint doesn't cover the end of life care you and others need (and in fact takes away from the NHS's finite resources) they're getting a bit desperate.

I don't particularly like the report or its recommendations but can completely understand where it's come from.

[JohnM]

Any idea if it worked in Sweden?

[Griff9of13]

I don't really see minimum pricing stopping those who want to drink too much drinking too much, but it may help pubs compete with supermarkets as the difference in prices level out.

[Johnoco]

When will the idiots in charge learn that if people want to drink too much, they will. Anything they try will be got round by the problem drinkers. I know several serious alkies and they find a way to drink- all the time...and it isn't always beer.

Far easier to punish the vast majority of drinkers though who aren't social physcopaths though.

[Bob8]

Any idea if it worked in Sweden?

Not definitely, as we do not have a control Sweden to compare it to.

However, there has been plenty of research on alcohol intake undertaken by the drinks industry. Two factors affect alcohol intake, affordability and marketing.

Affordability means that middle class people drink more alcohol, not just more expensive alcohol. People on benefits drink very little alcohol.

Marketing has a slight impact and it the main impact on which brand people drink, with few exceptions (such as real ale).

[Steve May]

So what's next on the forbidden list?

Masturbation.

Already banned in public places. Only a matter of time before the EUSSR bans it in the workplace.

[hindle xiii]

Masturbation.

Already banned in public places. Only a matter of time before the EUSSR bans it in the workplace.

What about when there are kids in the car?