62 replies to this topic

[Trojan]

the greatest of them all...............................................

He was a very good player, along with contemporaries Derek Turner and Johnny Whiteley. (GB were spoiled for choice) Whether they're the type of 13's required today is another matter.

[Old Frightful]

I don't know who that is...

He probably doesn't know who you are either.

I've posted this try on here before, time and again I watch it and still wonder how Norton caught that pass off Mick Crane.



Belting sidestep past the full back and still got an offload to James Leuluai whilst have his head removed...

[hindle xiii]

He probably doesn't know who you are either.

Quite. I admit it, I don't know every player who's ever played to whatever level since 1895 by face alone.

[giwildgo]

Question - could Liam Farrell be the next superstar loose forward, I like this lad, 22 and has bags of potential.
Great player, good pace, great hands and scores tries...and yeah, creates them.

Thoughts ....

No, he is more of a running second row forward. I think he'll be the best at that role in SL in the coming years, but he's not a loose in my opinion.

[giwildgo]

Steve Ward, will captain England without doubt and one of the young stars of our game, defo a loose forward and has it all, better than sinfield was at the same age and the next best thing since Hanley at loose IMO of course !

That's a bold endorsement - if he's better than Sculthorpe and Farrell, he'll be a bit special.

[Just Browny]

This thread does show a certain 'rigidity' in the way rugby league fans think about certain positions. I'd argue there is no perfect blueprint for a loose-forward: it depends what the team needs.

O'Loughlin is perfect for Wigan because he gets through a massive defensive stint, can put a nice pass out and can kick the ball if required.

Harrison or Cooper are perfect for Warrington, because they equally get through a tonne of defensive work and share the running load of the front row. That means we're often physically stronger over many teams in the last 25 minutes or so (see Hull last week).

So why do Wigan need a ball-handler there while Warrington do? I'd argue because Warrington's best player with ball-in-hand is Monaghan, while for Wigan their hooker (McIlorum) is more of a scrapper, defensive player - which is equally useful in the way Wigan line up. So while Warrington's handling core is a positions 1-6-7-9, Wigan's is 1-6-7-13. Leeds, with such a well-oiled trio of Sinfield-McGuire-Burrow, can arguably do without a fourth ball-handler and use the speed and stepping ability of Watkins and Hardaker.

Most top sides in RL have paid much more attention to delivering a quality spine to their side than they have to worrying whether player x is 'a proper scrum half' or whether player y is a 'proper loose forward'. I think this is what McNamara is trying to do too, although I'm not sure the players at his disposal have the necessary matching skill sets. For example, I've tended to argue in the past that if you want to pick Sinfield, he's not going to be nearly as effective if you don't throw in Burrow and McGuire too.

[giwildgo]

This thread does show a certain 'rigidity' in the way rugby league fans think about certain positions. I'd argue there is no perfect blueprint for a loose-forward: it depends what the team needs.

O'Loughlin is perfect for Wigan because he gets through a massive defensive stint, can put a nice pass out and can kick the ball if required.

Harrison or Cooper are perfect for Warrington, because they equally get through a tonne of defensive work and share the running load of the front row. That means we're often physically stronger over many teams in the last 25 minutes or so (see Hull last week).

So why do Wigan need a ball-handler there while Warrington do? I'd argue because Warrington's best player with ball-in-hand is Monaghan, while for Wigan their hooker (McIlorum) is more of a scrapper, defensive player - which is equally useful in the way Wigan line up. So while Warrington's handling core is a positions 1-6-7-9, Wigan's is 1-6-7-13. Leeds, with such a well-oiled trio of Sinfield-McGuire-Burrow, can arguably do without a fourth ball-handler and use the speed and stepping ability of Watkins and Hardaker.

Most top sides in RL have paid much more attention to delivering a quality spine to their side than they have to worrying whether player x is 'a proper scrum half' or whether player y is a 'proper loose forward'. I think this is what McNamara is trying to do too, although I'm not sure the players at his disposal have the necessary matching skill sets. For example, I've tended to argue in the past that if you want to pick Sinfield, he's not going to be nearly as effective if you don't throw in Burrow and McGuire too.

I agree, particularly on the Warrington point - a Lockers style player would be a luxury in a team that has playmakers at 1, 6, 7 and 9. The right balance as far as I can see is four creative ball handlers and distributors. Although I think that you might be wrong on Leeds - they used to have a fourth in Buderus and plugged the gap last season with Lunt. This season I see Ward fulfilling the fourth role, given McShane is more of a McIllorum type player than a Monaghan.

[Just Browny]

I agree, particularly on the Warrington point - a Lockers style player would be a luxury in a team that has playmakers at 1, 6, 7 and 9. The right balance as far as I can see is four creative ball handlers and distributors. Although I think that you might be wrong on Leeds - they used to have a fourth in Buderus and plugged the gap last season with Lunt. This season I see Ward fulfilling the fourth role, given McShane is more of a McIllorum type player than a Monaghan.

Yep decent point that. PMJWires believes we're desperately lacking a ball-playing loose-forward. I'd say that very few clubs can select three from the quality of Westwood-Waterhouse-Grix-McCarthy-Harrison-Cooper-Currie-Laithwaite in the back row!

[giwildgo]

Yep decent point that. PMJWires believes we're desperately lacking a ball-playing loose-forward. I'd say that very few clubs can select three from the quality of Westwood-Waterhouse-Grix-McCarthy-Harrison-Cooper-Currie-Laithwaite in the back row!

That's formidable depth despite the fact I'm not entirely sold that McCarthy and Cooper aren't average players in an otherwise very good team and squad. I see them as not dissimilar to the likes of Jonkers and Stankevitch in the old Saints teams, Tuson and Prescott at Wigan, and Kirke and Moore at Leeds.

[walter sobchak]

For me ellery Hanley was the quintessential loose forward, he had pace, strength, skill and a great rugby brain, always in the right place at the right time. That said like all positions on the rugby field there isn't a one size fits all, andy Farrell and SBW spring to mind who are 6'4-6'5 in height. A loose forward IMO was always a more bulkier and physical stand off, who operated primarily out wide, while the halves where in the middle at first and second receiver.

[Trojan]

For me ellery Hanley was the quintessential loose forward, he had pace, strength, skill and a great rugby brain, always in the right place at the right time. That said like all positions on the rugby field there isn't a one size fits all, andy Farrell and SBW spring to mind who are 6'4-6'5 in height. A loose forward IMO was always a more bulkier and physical stand off, who operated primarily out wide, while the halves where in the middle at first and second receiver.

Hanley played on the wing at centre and at 6 for Bradford - he moved to 13 for Wigan. I saw Hanley play for Bradford in 1984 v Fev at Odsal - Bradford won 27-10 - Hanley scored 17 points - in other words he was the difference. He could play anywhere. He'd still be great today IMO.

[Marauder]

Quite. Westerman still has potential.

Perhaps it's a criticism of the general british mentality rather than of Joe personally the way we regard players of his age & experience as 'youngsters'.

Wish I was 23 again

[Padge]

Hanley played on the wing at centre and at 6 for Bradford - he moved to 13 for Wigan. I saw Hanley play for Bradford in 1984 v Fev at Odsal - Bradford won 27-10 - Hanley scored 17 points - in other words he was the difference. He could play anywhere. He'd still be great today IMO.

It was Graham Lowe that moved Hanley to 13 though he had started at 6 at Wigan, it was a master stroke, it was by far his best position and for me he was the finest loose I have ever seen.

[Marauder]

That is all.....

I had the honour of training with Knocker at Hull FC, he would be out running up and down the terracing at the Boulevard half an hour before anyone else had left the changing rooms on training nights & would finish his warm up with a veriety of sprints.

I still marvel at how he would get the ball away under extreme pressure and drink so many beers and still walk.


I

[Marauder]

He was a very good player, along with contemporaries Derek Turner and Johnny Whiteley. (GB were spoiled for choice) Whether they're the type of 13's required today is another matter.

In this era one of the roles of the loose was to protect his scrum-half and these guys did it very well

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Edited by Marauder, 03 March 2013 - 10:40 PM.

[Lobbygobbler]

I thought Wayne Pierce and Ray Price were great loose forwards from the Invincibles era.

Nz's Mark Graham was also a good un

[Marauder]

I thought Wayne Pierce and Ray Price were great loose forwards from the Invincibles era.

Nz's Mark Graham was also a good un

I was a big fan of Ray Price, the guy was a machine.

[keighley]

Many years ago I saw a very young Malcolm Reilly come out of nowhere and mastermind a Cas victory over Australia. Even though he was an unknown at that point, it was obvious a star was born in the loose forward position.

[davewd]

Didnt Steve Norton show Mal Reilly the ropes at Cas ?

[Marauder]

Didnt Steve Norton show Mal Reilly the ropes at Cas ?

Probably the other way round