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The Salford revolution has begun

Veivers sacked.

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#81 The Parksider

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 09:45 AM

Isn't Hetherington opposed to any increase in the salary cap period?

I appreciate the issue of sustainability and not wanting to create unaffordable salaries, but IMO the cap should be index linked to enable club's purchasing power to remain constant YOY, rather than decreasing as is the current case. No good moaning about the purchasing power of RU or the NRL if SL clubs choose to handicap themselves in this way. I know not everyone would be able to keep up even with a 3% increase in cap spend but that's just a fact of life when running an elite sports league.

Whilst on the subject, I would take a leaf out of the RU Premiership's salary cap rulebook and introduce a marquee player exemption. This would go some way to counterbalancing the impact of the poor £/ AUS $ rate, HMRC clampdown on dodgy offshore tax arrangements and the increase in NRL cap. Each club could nominate one player in their squad to be exempt from the cap, so if say Dr K wanted to offer Cameron Smith or Billy Slater or Benji Marshall £1m pa to play in Salford he could do so and still be able to put a decent squad together. Right now I can't see any other way of getting the really big stars from the NRL over here. Or if Wigan want to pay Tomkins a similar amount so that he stays, that would free up the existing cap spend on him to either increase their squad size or better remunerate the other top performers in their squad. Obviously this would need to be closely policed by the RFL, with clubs demonstrating the affordability and sustainability of the deal, but I see no reason why it can't be done.


Thanks for the post, extremely interesting.

It may be if he's said anything that he wants all clubs to be able to spend the same.

But all for another thread.

It would be great to see Dr. Koukash attract a big name or two from down under.

#82 plug

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 10:04 AM

am surprized powley at fev int in the frame for wot he's done in the past but he's ours hand off ???

#83 JohnM

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 10:11 AM

With Graham Lowe, one of , if not THE greatest coach of all time, advising, I don't think you should have any worries on that front, do you?

see http://en.wikipedia....iki/Graham_Lowe

#84 Red Willow

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 10:25 AM

Tell that to Paul Anderson at Huddersfield, he seems to think that the new managemet team know nothing about RL.

#85 TwoBlues

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 10:26 AM

1) do you really think Veivers has shown anything to suggest he has the ability to coach on the highest stage? Do you not think that his tactics and explanations lack conviction?

2) Do you think continuing to play Murphy was sound given his age and performances to date? Do you think extending his loan period given those performances was sound?

3) Do you think playing Foran at half back having been in the country 48 hours rather than continue with the pairing that had success last week was sound, then blame it for the failure is the sign of a good coach ?

1) He inherited a squad assembled by previous,heavily criticised coach(es).He has beaten sides put together over a period of time by rich owners and coached by Tony Smith and Nathan Brown.His players sometimes lack conviction and concentration not assisted by playing before low,critical attendances.
2) The signings of Murphy and the others were not made until Dr Koukash took over the club and Graham Lowe was in the country.Murphy has gone through the academy system at one of the worlds highly regarded clubs.I do not know what the alternative was to not playing Murphy or how it would impact on the career of the young man if he were to drop him.I do not know the alternative was to not extending the loan period.( For this Sunday I do not expect Algar to drop the winger who has represented his country but who has difficulty dealing with kicks in his direction nor did I expect Slater to be dropped from international duty for a suicide pass leading to a try for the opposition or Darren Lockyer for dropping the ball with the line at his mercy )
I don't think a young,out of form full back should be the scapegoat;nor a head coach with extremely limited time or resources - or support.
3) I think the playing of Foran and Mauro was inevitable as it was deemed that they were from a 'professional environment' and playing after arriving a few days previously would not be a problem.They had garnered some publicity and had been photographed with Dr Koukash before the date of the game.

#86 Dave T

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:30 AM

How naive.

1 - Why would a successful businessman take lessons from Gatcliffe?

Dr. K. is rich, and he will spend, and he will do it now.

2 - He needs to send a big fat message out that he means business for his club. They had 10,000 people turn up at the Willows only 18 months ago (This is a fact I looked it up) and he's shouting at them from the news headlines that he's after the very best coach and best players he can get.

That's a damn good strategy to short cut any woffle with Gatcliffe (IMHO of course) and start to get bums back on seats.

He can chuck as many millions at RL as he wants, the game needs the money.

3 - Doesn't Mr. Moran like to offer "transfer fees" doesn't he like to chuck money at top Aussies to stimulate fan interest?


Parky - there are plenty of rich successful businessmen who are involved with sports clubs in the past, and still now who have been absolutely useless (and quite dangerous) at it.

Couple of points:

1 – Because Gatcliffe has direct experience of turning a basket-case of a RL club round to be a successful one – surely you would want to learn from previous successes in the market that you are new to (and then put your own stamp on it obviously).

2 – He does, and I agree to an extent, but actions speak louder than words. He has appeared slightly excitable so far, but I’m sure he will calm down as Canetman says.

3 – Leeds Wire’s issue wasn’t about spending money – it is about him shouting about it, when in fact he has delivered exactly no big names so far (early days). Moran never shouted about it in the media, he kept his head down, made signings, whilst investing in the infrastructure of the club. Even now, Moran is very rarely interviewed.

I’m sure he’ll get it right and he is certainly making it entertaining, but in the last two games Salford have attracted 1800 and 2300 fans – there is a lot to fix there.

Edited by Dave T, 05 March 2013 - 11:30 AM.


#87 The Parksider

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:27 PM

Parky - there are plenty of rich successful businessmen who are involved with sports clubs in the past, and still now who have been absolutely useless (and quite dangerous) at it.

Couple of points:

1 – Because Gatcliffe has direct experience of turning a basket-case of a RL club round to be a successful one – surely you would want to learn from previous successes in the market that you are new to (and then put your own stamp on it obviously).

2 – He does, and I agree to an extent, but actions speak louder than words. He has appeared slightly excitable so far, but I’m sure he will calm down as Canetman says.

3 – Leeds Wire’s issue wasn’t about spending money – it is about him shouting about it, when in fact he has delivered exactly no big names so far (early days). Moran never shouted about it in the media, he kept his head down, made signings, whilst investing in the infrastructure of the club. Even now, Moran is very rarely interviewed.

I’m sure he’ll get it right and he is certainly making it entertaining, but in the last two games Salford have attracted 1800 and 2300 fans – there is a lot to fix there.


All points gratefully taken, IMHO having money over rides everything in this game, and announcing loudly he's got it and wants to spend it, is a good thing for the game and no personal embarrassment.......... IMHO of course.

He'd have a bigger problem if he kept quiet on the issue. It will take some time to get people to want to work, play for and watch the club precisely because they have never had the money the big boys have.

A little bit of shouting that they now have it, probably in greater amounts than the big boys, is good PR and marketing for my money.

#88 Bomb Jack

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:27 PM

What Dr K has to do is build Salford up to get 10,000 crowds and be self sustaining without his millions, as Steve O'Connor is trying to do at Widnes.
Widnes - Super League's newest Club, and Cheshire's Original Glamour Club. Watch out Warrington, we're back !

#89 Dave T

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:39 PM

All points gratefully taken, IMHO having money over rides everything in this game, and announcing loudly he's got it and wants to spend it, is a good thing for the game and no personal embarrassment.......... IMHO of course.

He'd have a bigger problem if he kept quiet on the issue. It will take some time to get people to want to work, play for and watch the club precisely because they have never had the money the big boys have.

A little bit of shouting that they now have it, probably in greater amounts than the big boys, is good PR and marketing for my money.

But it hasn't increased the crowds at all in their first game (tbf I don't know that for a fact they may have been looking at sub-1k crowds!!!) so the marketing effect isn't that brilliant.

When Moran got involved at Warrington, most didn't know anything about him, despite him managing some of the biggest music groups in the country. He went about his business in a more sustainable way, whilst still engaging in a bit of aggressive purchasing.

Having money doesn't over-ride everything else. It is very difficult to be successful without it, granted, but plenty of rich people have made complete balls-ups of Sports clubs. They are unique businesses.

#90 JohnM

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:52 PM

How long has Dr. K owned the club?

#91 Red Willow

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:53 PM

Murphy may have gone through Wigan's academy but in the 5 games he has failed to impress especially his inability to catch or pass the ball, he should be dropped to protect him as much as the team. If he was one of ours he would be dropped.

As for the team, I can see we don't have depth and there are some big problems but the inability to defend and read the game was so poor on Friday. Veivers says he is responsible for defence and the leaking of points even in the game we won is therefore down to him.

I think we will have to disagree as to whether Veivers was the right bloke for the job but he failed to show me anything over the last 16 months that would prove otherwise (he was 2nd choice and the cheap option after Parish and for me it shows). Those games we won looked more like the experienced players in Patten and Moon just deciding to do their own thing.

As for speaking to Getcliffe why would Koukash bother, he brought in Chamers who has undergone the same process as Salford is undergoing now but at Titans, he has the experience.

#92 Red Willow

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:58 PM

http://www.mancheste...koukash-1719879

Koukash fights back.

An up and coming young coach ? wonder who that could be??

#93 The Parksider

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:07 PM

What Dr K has to do is build Salford up to get 10,000 crowds and be self sustaining without his millions, as Steve O'Connor is trying to do at Widnes.


NO WAY!!

If someone wants to pump millions into Superleague let them. Hopefully it will end in 10,000 crowds and a vibrant junior game in Manchester/Salford.

We're skint enough without adopting O'Connors I don't want to part with too much policy.

#94 The Parksider

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:11 PM

Having money doesn't over-ride everything else. It is very difficult to be successful without it, granted, but plenty of rich people have made complete balls-ups of Sports clubs. They are unique businesses.


I'd suggest SL is a unique sport amongst sports in that it heavily lacks money, quality players and paying fans.

Salford were just about dead before Mr. K came in.

If Mr. K had come in with fantastic business acumen and no money then what would have happened??

#95 Dave T

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:11 PM

As for speaking to Getcliffe why would Koukash bother, he brought in Chamers who has undergone the same process as Salford is undergoing now but at Titans, he has the experience.

The Australian game and sports market is massively different to the British scene.

It's ultimately up to him who he speaks to and puts his faith in, but I find it surprising that people seem against him speaking to other succesful people/clubs in the same position as he now finds himself in. I think he could learn a lot about the game from the likes of Hetherington, Gatcliffe, McManus, Lenegan etc (and then as I have already stated, make his own decisions).

#96 Dave T

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:13 PM

I'd suggest SL is a unique sport amongst sports in that it heavily lacks money, quality players and paying fans.

Salford were just about dead before Mr. K came in.

If Mr. K had come in with fantastic business acumen and no money then what would have happened??

I already answered that you need money. You seem to suggest that having money can over-rule any business acumen - it can't and we see it umpteen times a year across British sport.

#97 Saintslass

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:13 PM

It's ultimately up to him who he speaks to and puts his faith in, but I find it surprising that people seem against him speaking to other succesful people/clubs in the same position as he now finds himself in. I think he could learn a lot about the game from the likes of Hetherington, Gatcliffe, McManus, Lenegan etc (and then as I have already stated, make his own decisions).

How do you know he hasn't spoken to them?

I think Koukash is definitely on the right track. Everyone in rugby league has watched Salford make a mess of so many things in recent years that clearly something needs to be done, and a pretty drastic kind of something too. The MEN article makes clear that the whole club is in a mess and needs a damned good shake up. Koukash appears to be the kind of character to do that and he seems to have the fans on board, which is the most important thing.

#98 The Parksider

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:19 PM

I already answered that you need money. You seem to suggest that having money can over-rule any business acumen - it can't and we see it umpteen times a year across British sport.


Dave,

I don't see what business genius you need to offer players top wages, to offer clubs transfer fees to try to release them, to create a pile of marketing initiatives, to offer big money to a top coach, and hopefully to fund half a dozen RL development officers around the conurbation.

Only two things put bums on seats and that's a winning team and a modern stadium.

#99 Dave T

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:20 PM

How do you know he hasn't spoken to them?


I don't - I'd be very surprised if he hasn't or doesn't intend to. It was Parky and RW who suggested he shouldn't bother.

#100 Dave T

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:21 PM

Dave,

I don't see what business genius you need to offer players top wages, to offer clubs transfer fees to try to release them, to create a pile of marketing initiatives, to offer big money to a top coach, and hopefully to fund half a dozen RL development officers around the conurbation.

Only two things put bums on seats and that's a winning team and a modern stadium.

Thank God you're not rich and looking to take over a RL club!!!

Edited by Dave T, 05 March 2013 - 01:21 PM.





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