Jump to content


League Express

Podcast

Photo
- - - - -

Nigel Wood- London must improve


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
341 replies to this topic

#201 l'angelo mysterioso

l'angelo mysterioso
  • Coach
  • 41,080 posts

Posted 17 March 2013 - 06:28 PM

There is a difference between " It can" and " it has" . League CAN be successful at the highest level nationally and internationally but unless I am very much mistaken, it is not true to say that it HAS been successful at the highest level nationally and internationally.

I wonder why that is?
- class war?
- licencing?
- incompetence at the RFL/clubs/etc since 1895?
- lack of P and R?
- insular aussies?
- non competitive scrums?
- the war-time Vichy govt?
- the weather?
- media conspiracy?

As John Belushi said in The Blues Brothers when confronted in the sewer under the Hotel Palace Ballroom by the gun-toting woman he jilted at the altar, "IT'S NOT MY FAULT!"

No wonder Clare Balding complained about the chippy attitude of some fans.



all of above plus the chronic culture of parochialism.

the stereotypes perpetuated and enjoyed by those within and without the game, which many people have found and find off putting.
WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015
Keeping it local

#202 Trojan

Trojan
  • Coach
  • 15,161 posts

Posted 17 March 2013 - 10:23 PM

In 1995 we had the second most popular pro winter sport at club level. Today since Union went pro we don't even have the distinction of being the second most supported sport at any time of the year. Union has usurped our spot and we've let them by vacating the space. Some of the reasons for the shift to summer were that we wouldn't have soccer and Union commanding the headlines - so there'd be more room for us - but every summer there's something. This summer there's Ashes cricket and the Lions are touring Oz. Next summer will be the European soccer championships, last summer was the Olympics. Plus soccer has almost become a year round preoccupation with the media anyway. But the fact is that Union has remained a winter sport and at club level has increased its crowds and its media status enormously and we haven't. The increase in media status has IMO been at our expense. Plus of course we've lost the Aussie tour, home and away, we've lost the advantage of our top players being able to guest with Aussie clubs. All round I'd say that summer rugby has been a huge mistake. Whether reverting to winter would be a cure is debateable - the damage has been done. But I reckon the move to summer was a bad one all round.
"Your a one trick pony Trojan" - Parksider 10th March 2013

#203 Johnoco

Johnoco
  • Coach
  • 20,073 posts

Posted 18 March 2013 - 08:40 AM

We didn't 'let' Union do anything. RU was already much bigger than RL, even when it was 'amateur'. Having a pro division didn't take that much doing and it would have been hard NOT to make it reasonably successful - look at all the coverage and money they get and they still aren't that far ahead of club RL.
Was RU just doing to sit back and do nothing? No and why would they? They have a very good support base that just needed telling the games were on, unlike RL where apathy and excuses rule.

No I don't care if you're if you're into different bands

No cause for so much hatred, I'm just a different man

Pull off that cover, I will too, and learn to understand

With music deep inside we'll make world unity our plan

 

7 Seconds -Walk Together, Rock Together


#204 Dave T

Dave T
  • Coach
  • 14,869 posts

Posted 18 March 2013 - 08:52 AM

yes you've probably included some that continued under other names too. The point about South Wales is that there are plenty of people there who are actively hostile to Rugby League. I'll never forget the smirk on the face of the Welsh guy who told me about Caridff/Bridgend folding - I was on holiday in Folkstone - he was clearly delighted.
I don't like the fact the RL at pro level seems to be confined to it's birth counties, but the fact remains that every attempt so far to establish the game elsewhere at pro level has turned out to be a disaster.

there are a lot of people in England who would have the similar attitude as the smirker. Plenty in the so called heartlands.

#205 JohnM

JohnM
  • Coach
  • 20,146 posts

Posted 18 March 2013 - 08:55 AM

That was in France. Don't forget the century plus long ambitions of the various RFUs around the world to strangle any attempt at establishing RL at birth.


Quite so. and more - I'm sure the northern climate will have been cited also, and now someone on here is blaming the switch to "Summer" rugby.

All these points have been given as excuses for the fact that our game is where it is today. And yes, there is no doubt some truth in all of that...plus L'Angelo's points above.

Some of these points we can dispute, some we can't dispute, some we can do nothing about..and just maybe some we CAN do something about. But whinging and whining about it ain't gonna get anywhere. The fact is that unions fans support union in all its dimensions unlike, , as Johnoco says, "...RL where apathy and excuses rule."

#206 JohnM

JohnM
  • Coach
  • 20,146 posts

Posted 18 March 2013 - 08:56 AM

there are a lot of people in England who would have the similar attitude as the smirker. Plenty in the so called heartlands.


and plenty within our game itself, I suspect.

#207 The Parksider

The Parksider
  • Coach
  • 17,224 posts

Posted 18 March 2013 - 12:39 PM

and plenty within our game itself, I suspect.


I don't suppose the game could have gone 100 years restricted geographically so heavily and being so club orientated without it attracting the local game for local folk, we have what we hold siege mentality parochialist attitudes.

TBF we had a loyal audience that saw the game through the old times, now the game is asking them to move over there's bound to be dissent. It's understandable to a point.

Only to a point??

#208 l'angelo mysterioso

l'angelo mysterioso
  • Coach
  • 41,080 posts

Posted 18 March 2013 - 01:05 PM

I don't suppose the game could have gone 100 years restricted geographically so heavily and being so club orientated without it attracting the local game for local folk, we have what we hold siege mentality parochialist attitudes.

TBF we had a loyal audience that saw the game through the old times, now the game is asking them to move over there's bound to be dissent. It's understandable to a point.

Only to a point??


A loyal but small local audience

The people of the local game for local folk mentality don't need to move over: they need to open their minds and their other eye
WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015
Keeping it local

#209 The Parksider

The Parksider
  • Coach
  • 17,224 posts

Posted 18 March 2013 - 01:20 PM

A loyal but small local audience

The people of the local game for local folk mentality don't need to move over: they need to open their minds and their other eye


We had an "ageing" fanbase, and I note Leigh have made the same comment. Time will see these attitudes die out.

#210 Dave T

Dave T
  • Coach
  • 14,869 posts

Posted 18 March 2013 - 01:21 PM

A loyal but small local audience

The people of the local game for local folk mentality don't need to move over: they need to open their minds and their other eye

Yep - I often hear it quoted that Rugby League is a game for all. We don't discriminate or judge people, anyone can play, watch or get involved at whatever level they like. Whilst this may be technically true, I really don't think we make things very friendly for 'new' people to get involved.

#211 Gav Wilson

Gav Wilson
  • Coach
  • 3,305 posts

Posted 18 March 2013 - 01:23 PM

Yep - I often hear it quoted that Rugby League is a game for all. We don't discriminate or judge people, anyone can play, watch or get involved at whatever level they like. Whilst this may be technically true, I really don't think we make things very friendly for 'new' people to get involved.


Quite. The reaction to Dr Koukash is a perfect example of that.
Posted Image

#212 Saintslass

Saintslass
  • Coach
  • 4,502 posts

Posted 18 March 2013 - 01:54 PM

Yep - I often hear it quoted that Rugby League is a game for all. We don't discriminate or judge people, anyone can play, watch or get involved at whatever level they like. Whilst this may be technically true, I really don't think we make things very friendly for 'new' people to get involved.

I agree.

#213 Dave T

Dave T
  • Coach
  • 14,869 posts

Posted 18 March 2013 - 02:16 PM

Quite. The reaction to Dr Koukash is a perfect example of that.

I'm not in 100% agreement on that (I can't as I have criticised Koukash on here :D )

People in his position will be open to criticism, and he has come into the game with all guns blazing and really quite aggressive - that's his choice and I suspect he has done it intentionally, but he has pretty much invited debate and got it. I don't think anybody doesn't want him involved, and it was one of the most positive stories of the last 12 months him taking over Salford (and OK at Bradford).

Challenging what somebody publicly actually says is quite different to not being friendly and accepting of new people.

#214 JohnM

JohnM
  • Coach
  • 20,146 posts

Posted 18 March 2013 - 02:19 PM

quite so, but much of the negative reaction came over as "who does he think he is, an outsider, mate of Nigel's, coming in here, shouting the odds and splashing his money around!"

Edited by JohnM, 18 March 2013 - 02:19 PM.


#215 Dave T

Dave T
  • Coach
  • 14,869 posts

Posted 18 March 2013 - 02:54 PM

quite so, but much of the negative reaction came over as "who does he think he is, an outsider, mate of Nigel's, coming in here, shouting the odds and splashing his money around!"

I'd disagree - he made some quite outrageous statements and came in like a tasmanian devil (I suspect intentionally) but it is always going to get people disagreeing with him.

I have certainly disagreed with much of what he has said so far, but I'm delighted he is involved in RL and will hopefully do a brilliant job at Salford.

#216 gingerjon

gingerjon
  • Coach
  • 29,166 posts

Posted 18 March 2013 - 03:41 PM

Quite. The reaction to Dr Koukash is a perfect example of that.


The reaction to Dr Koukash's statements and the reaction to his involvement are two very different beasts.
Cheer up, RL is actually rather good
- Severus, July 2012

#217 hindle xiii

hindle xiii
  • Coach
  • 21,091 posts

Posted 18 March 2013 - 03:58 PM

I'd disagree - he made some quite outrageous statements and came in like a tasmanian devil (I suspect intentionally) but it is always going to get people disagreeing with him.

I have certainly disagreed with much of what he has said so far, but I'm delighted he is involved in RL and will hopefully do a brilliant job at Salford.

That's better than I could have put it.

On Odsal Top baht 'at.


#218 Dave T

Dave T
  • Coach
  • 14,869 posts

Posted 18 March 2013 - 03:59 PM

The reaction to Dr Koukash's statements and the reaction to his involvement are two very different beasts.

Thanks for summing up my view perfectly, I went for the rambling approach!

#219 Maximus Decimus

Maximus Decimus
  • Coach
  • 7,709 posts

Posted 18 March 2013 - 04:16 PM

In 1995 we had the second most popular pro winter sport at club level. Today since Union went pro we don't even have the distinction of being the second most supported sport at any time of the year. Union has usurped our spot and we've let them by vacating the space. Some of the reasons for the shift to summer were that we wouldn't have soccer and Union commanding the headlines - so there'd be more room for us - but every summer there's something. This summer there's Ashes cricket and the Lions are touring Oz. Next summer will be the European soccer championships, last summer was the Olympics. Plus soccer has almost become a year round preoccupation with the media anyway. But the fact is that Union has remained a winter sport and at club level has increased its crowds and its media status enormously and we haven't. The increase in media status has IMO been at our expense. Plus of course we've lost the Aussie tour, home and away, we've lost the advantage of our top players being able to guest with Aussie clubs. All round I'd say that summer rugby has been a huge mistake. Whether reverting to winter would be a cure is debateable - the damage has been done. But I reckon the move to summer was a bad one all round.


I'm sorry but this is a terrible case of post hoc reasoning.

Much has changed since 1995 and before, for instance you completely ignore the fact that Union has gone professional. It hasn't vacated our space as it doesn't compete with us geographically almost anywhere, it has grown of its own back. Also off the fact that it already had 80,000 ready made fans going to Twickers for every game and a huge network of amateur players and fans.

We had some pretty serious problems in 1995 that you have just ignored. The reality is that we would have continued to fall behind the Aussies as the Union converts dried up resulting in many of the same problems we have had with the international game. We competed in 1997 with the exact same players that we would have done regardless of the switch to summer and crowds were comfortably down. This would have still happened whilst Union was still massively growing it's international, European and domestic competitions.

Then I could start on the huge growth of the Premier League and Champions League but I think I've made my point.

#220 l'angelo mysterioso

l'angelo mysterioso
  • Coach
  • 41,080 posts

Posted 18 March 2013 - 05:44 PM

I'm sorry but this is a terrible case of post hoc reasoning.

Much has changed since 1995 and before, for instance you completely ignore the fact that Union has gone professional. It hasn't vacated our space as it doesn't compete with us geographically almost anywhere, it has grown of its own back. Also off the fact that it already had 80,000 ready made fans going to Twickers for every game and a huge network of amateur players and fans.

We had some pretty serious problems in 1995 that you have just ignored. The reality is that we would have continued to fall behind the Aussies as the Union converts dried up resulting in many of the same problems we have had with the international game. We competed in 1997 with the exact same players that we would have done regardless of the switch to summer and crowds were comfortably down. This would have still happened whilst Union was still massively growing it's international, European and domestic competitions.

Then I could start on the huge growth of the Premier League and Champions League but I think I've made my point.


exactly

Rugby League was the second best(and an extremely poor second best) by default.
WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015
Keeping it local




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users