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Nigel Wood- London must improve


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#241 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 10:19 PM

how would this consultation work?


A referendum with parallel trials

#242 The Future is League

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 12:38 AM

I preferred Winter rugby as well. Crowd increases since 1996 have not been that great considering:

1/ the game went fully pro in 1996
2/ most clubs have had new stadia since then

Perhaps crowds would have been much bigger if we'd stayed in winter?

I still think as a whole that the game is poorly marketed. A hell of a lot more could be done on match day marketing for starters.

#243 The Parksider

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 06:46 AM

No not as a condition. Wakeling said London were one of Sky's preferred teams but there was no compulsion on the RFL to include them. However, just to clarify, he was clear that London were only of any real value to Sky as a successful club, so it doesnt neccessarily apply to the current situation.


I am deeply indebted to you for clearing this up for me. The anti-london brigade peddle a myth that London have no value to SKY at all and SKY are completely ambivolent towards the capital and would not bat an eyelid if the RFL/SLE simply ejected London from the competition.

Sure SKY don't want a failing London but only this month Nigel Wood was talking about how important it was for the game to London to succeed in the capital. Wakelins comments and Wood's comments have many years between them but the record of the RFL persisting with London (probably for more reasons than just to please SKY) is clear and warrants some sort of explanation.

Again thanks for this, I'll seek out the book. In the meantime hopefully the anti-London brigade will stop repeating how worthless London's presence is as though if they say it enough it must therefore be true.

Edited by The Parksider, 23 March 2013 - 08:57 AM.


#244 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 08:22 AM

A referendum with parallel trials

amongst who?

when would these referenda be invoked?
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#245 superten

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:47 AM

If rfl are serious about london they need to man up. In fact the rugby football league need to come clean on its agenda. Talk of the two tier super league seems to be gathering pace . We need a statement from the rfl to sort this out. If we did have the two tier ten team super league surely london should be given a team in the top league and one in the second league if we are serious about league and london.Stadium for the broncos is an issue I would look at getting a smaller stadium I quite like the new river stadium where the skolars play .If both were to share that stadium and work slowly together to develop and improve its facilities. Branding both sides is another issue I would change the broncos to the london roos and the skolars to the london kiwis. If both in the two tier set up im sure these two names could attratch more fans and crucially more sponsorship.

Edited by superten, 23 March 2013 - 10:48 AM.

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#246 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:50 AM

If rfl are serious about london they need to man up. In fact the rugby football league need to come clean on its agenda. Talk of the two tier super league seems to be gathering pace . We need a statement from the rfl to sort this out. If we did have the two tier ten team super league surely london should be given a team in the top league and one in the second league if we are serious about league and london.Stadium for the broncos is an issue I would look at getting a smaller stadium I quite like the new river stadium where the skolars play .If both were to share that stadium and work slowly together to develop and improve its facilities. Branding both sides is another issue I would change the broncos to the london roos and the skolars to the london kiwis. If both in the two tier set up im sure these two names could attratch more fans and crucially more sponsorship.


No - would be better if the RFL bought a joint share in Lionel Road AND bought the new River

#247 deluded pom?

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:55 AM

Branding both sides is another issue I would change the broncos to the london roos and the skolars to the london kiwis. If both in the two tier set up im sure these two names could attratch more fans and crucially more sponsorship.

I had to check my calendar when I read this.

rldfsignature.jpg


#248 deluded pom?

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:58 AM

Again thanks for this, I'll seek out the book. In the meantime hopefully the anti-London brigade will stop repeating how worthless London's presence is as though if they say it enough it must therefore be true.

I'm not anti London by any stretch of the imagination but the current club does nothing for the sport of RL other than be a flagship for the game in London. In fact I'd go so far as to say in their present incarnation they are worthless. A dying club that will shuffle off this mortal coil if nothing is done sooner rather than later to revive it.

rldfsignature.jpg


#249 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:03 AM

No - would be better if the RFL bought a joint share in Lionel Road AND bought the new River


so these referenda then. How would it work?
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#250 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:10 AM

I'm not anti London by any stretch of the imagination but the current club does nothing for the sport of RL other than be a flagship for the game in London. In fact I'd go so far as to say in their present incarnation they are worthless. A dying club that will shuffle off this mortal coil if nothing is done sooner rather than later to revive it.


it's hard to think any different. What' most galling is the huge potential that is not being made the most of.

I think Superten's idea has lot of merit

The New River stadium with some investment could be a belting Rugby, although it's multi use and has an athletics track. Combined investment between League and the uniojn club that plays there-both hav facilities funds, in patrtnership with the council benefit everyone. Putting money into a facility you don't own is a major issue though.
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#251 Northern Sol

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:39 AM

I am deeply indebted to you for clearing this up for me. The anti-london brigade peddle a myth that London have no value to SKY at all and SKY are completely ambivolent towards the capital and would not bat an eyelid if the RFL/SLE simply ejected London from the competition.

Sure SKY don't want a failing London but only this month Nigel Wood was talking about how important it was for the game to London to succeed in the capital. Wakelins comments and Wood's comments have many years between them but the record of the RFL persisting with London (probably for more reasons than just to please SKY) is clear and warrants some sort of explanation.

Again thanks for this, I'll seek out the book. In the meantime hopefully the anti-London brigade will stop repeating how worthless London's presence is as though if they say it enough it must therefore be true.


Only you could interpret Derwent's statement that way. It's clear that he said that London is only worth something if they are successful and that Sky never had them as a prerequisite.

You have twisted his words to mean that Sky want London at any costs and the RFL are happy to accommodate. But who is surprised?

#252 Northern Sol

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:41 AM

If rfl are serious about london they need to man up. In fact the rugby football league need to come clean on its agenda. Talk of the two tier super league seems to be gathering pace . We need a statement from the rfl to sort this out. If we did have the two tier ten team super league surely london should be given a team in the top league and one in the second league if we are serious about league and london.Stadium for the broncos is an issue I would look at getting a smaller stadium I quite like the new river stadium where the skolars play .If both were to share that stadium and work slowly together to develop and improve its facilities. Branding both sides is another issue I would change the broncos to the london roos and the skolars to the london kiwis. If both in the two tier set up im sure these two names could attratch more fans and crucially more sponsorship.


No.

Broncos are one club, Skolars are another.

They already have dual registered players, if they actually played at the same stadium then Skolars would be Broncos A.

Skolars are a successful side, why drag them down to being the A-team of a failing side?

#253 The Parksider

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:58 AM

I'm not anti London by any stretch of the imagination but the current club does nothing for the sport of RL other than be a flagship for the game in London. In fact I'd go so far as to say in their present incarnation they are worthless. A dying club that will shuffle off this mortal coil if nothing is done sooner rather than later to revive it.


Well, we are all entitled to our opinion and that one's fair enough. My view is merely shaped by events and comments from the power brokers. SKY did prefer London in SL, they did/do want it to be successful, Lewis pushed so hard for the Broncos it was said that it could have been a point for him to resign on, regardless of anything they always appear to be first pick by the licensing commitee, when Hughes said things were getting too much the RFL stepped in, Hudgell predicted central funding and RL world did an extensive article on how it was primarily expanding the player pool that was important to the game before Nigel Wood came out the other week and underlined how important the capital is.

That's enough for me to form an opinion that the people who run the game see the club as important to the game. Individuals may not like this and explain away all the events and comments above. Variously they are explained away as untrue, myths, never happened, not what was meant etc etc. Looking at it my "humble opinion" is that the game would be a lot better off making London sucesfull rather than just rejecting them.

Where there's a will there's a way and the will may come if Hughes forces the issue by walking away. The RFL/SLE/SKY will have to decide if they want a London, and if so how to make it successful. For me this is a contrived made for TV sport and it should be no problem to contrive to ensure the club has a full salary cap spend and a good coaching team. Where will the money come from?

Well the favourite for 2015 is 12 clubs, so maybe two club will have to stop throwing away money on lost M62 causes and throw it away on a lost southern cause instead :lol:

Edited by The Parksider, 23 March 2013 - 12:00 PM.


#254 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 02:39 PM

No.

Broncos are one club, Skolars are another.

They already have dual registered players, if they actually played at the same stadium then Skolars would be Broncos A.

Skolars are a successful side, why drag them down to being the A-team of a failing side?


I see what you mean, but I still think the idea shouldn't be dismissed.
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#255 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 04:45 PM

so these referenda then. How would it work?


Free vote (fans and players). Bit like voting for someone in a major trade union

#256 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 05:20 PM

Free vote (fans and players). Bit like voting for someone in a major trade union


how do you qualify as a fan?


There are people wo put huge ammounts of money and have massive ammounts of responsibility within the game, surely that should mean that they should call the shots.

On what occassions should this plebiscite be invoked?

How will it be organised and overseen and where will the personnel and finance come from to put it into practice?

wat about age-will children who are fans(whatever your definition is) be allowed to vote?

will all registred players be alloweed to vote?

Who will decide when there is to be one?

How will the all too important wording of the plebiscite be organised and who will do it?

We have a governing body of professional sports administrators in place. getting rid of tem, or circumventing them, even if it were practical(see above for just a few reasons why it isn'), just because they take decisions you don't like is well...
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#257 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 05:21 PM

Free vote (fans and players). Bit like voting for someone in a major trade union


it's a very small bit since votes in trade unions are:

for the election of officials

for industrial action

strictly governed by law
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#258 THE RED ROOSTER

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 08:21 AM

I am deeply indebted to you for clearing this up for me. The anti-london brigade peddle a myth that London have no value to SKY at all and SKY are completely ambivolent towards the capital and would not bat an eyelid if the RFL/SLE simply ejected London from the competition.

Sure SKY don't want a failing London but only this month Nigel Wood was talking about how important it was for the game to London to succeed in the capital. Wakelins comments and Wood's comments have many years between them but the record of the RFL persisting with London (probably for more reasons than just to please SKY) is clear and warrants some sort of explanation.

Again thanks for this, I'll seek out the book. In the meantime hopefully the anti-London brigade will stop repeating how worthless London's presence is as though if they say it enough it must therefore be true.


I will save you the problem - Dertwent's is referring to the second paragraph on page 131 of Super League the first 10 years by Phil Caplan and Jonathan R Doidge published in 2006 - Seven years ago.

The canon text on SKY wanting a London club referred to by the Chronicler comes from 153 of Simon Kelners To Jerusalem and Back Published in 1996 - Seventeen years ago

Those who quote BARB stats on here are referring to a sport that only has the minimum requisite two London games per year named early on to get the club out of the way. SKY SPORTS pays for atmosphere for itrs product, hence one of the reasons given by Keith Hogg for herding all fans into the Etihad stand a couple of years ago was at the request of SKY to make it look as if there was a crowd at the game (a request made of certain soccer clubs too according to Keith). SKY wants It's viewer to get caught up in the atmosphere of say a Hull derby, not a 4/5ths empty Twickenham stoop.

So the SKY viewing figurtes - loudly trumpeted on here - are a reflection of the games selling point based on matches between the big M62 clubs not the Broncos. Again I will use the American football analogy which also draws well on SKY but does not encourage people to flock to see the local amateur London Blitz club who are successful

So I think the "London must be in superleague because SKY want it" card somewhat out of date. SKY desired a successful club to broaden the games footprint and that's not what we have and I cannot think SKY would insist on London now that it has a bigger sporting portfolio than 17 years ago for what is to them a regional "filler" sport which does reasonable business in viewing figures as it is.

I am an oil trader and successful at that but, but marketing, finance, business management, human resources etc are not my strengths


 

 

David Hughes to Ian Lenagan Page 134 - A Pastel Revolution - Fletcher and Gordas - 2006

 

Being an outsider, it is easiest to see what is wrong with the sport. It's a fantastic sport that has been undersold and under-marketed  because people who run it probably want to keep it the way it is

 

 

Dr Marwan Koukash to Joanthan Lieu. Sunday Telegraph 9th March 2014

 

 


#259 The Parksider

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 09:04 AM

So I think the "London must be in superleague because SKY want it" card somewhat out of date. SKY desired a successful club to broaden the games footprint and that's not what we have and I cannot think SKY would insist on London now that it has a bigger sporting portfolio than 17 years ago for what is to them a regional "filler" sport which does reasonable business in viewing figures as it is.


Indeed, that is the position we have got to but what SKY wanted to see happen with London was still a driving factor in the RFL's attitude to keeping them in. The justification for keeping them in has gone in terms of that aspect of the club. Now the RFL and others point to the importance of the "player pool" and of course the anti-London brigade will scoff at that.

Sky may be disappointed at the events of the last 17 years and given up on London as any sort of a requirement, but you can't look at these things in isolation IMHO. As Canetman comments, big sponsors look at RL as a regional game and often make their choices about RL's value in the sponsorship market place based on how it's just a regional oddity. SKY see it as filler only, Sponsors see it as having no national never mind international depth.

So by all means we can boot London out, we can find another M62 club to replace them, who will do just as badly but at least do it up north. It doesn't personally matter to me but I can't get away from the idea that if it would be good for the game for it to be seen in what is our shop window, to be doing something beyond the M62. The last throw of the dice is yet to come and may not come, but Hudgell suggested central funding, maybe central control.

Questions still remain about what value London still could be if they could compete and get some sort of a crowd in. But for me there is no question that abandoning the capital would be a bad thing for the game. It may be the case that if the Broncos go the SKY contract will not alter, but the effects of pulling the pro club out of the capital in other areas have to be considered as do the knock on effects. It's not a matter of London are completely worthless let's get rid (personal hatred then satisfied). We have a dozen worthless clubs up north on those parameters.

If people disagree with that then why not contact the RFL because they still see mileage in doing as much as they can in London, and were very voiciferous about that earlier this month.

Edited by The Parksider, 24 March 2013 - 09:12 AM.


#260 Northern Sol

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 09:52 AM

The last throw of the dice is yet to come and may not come, but Hudgell suggested central funding, maybe central control.


Fantasy land again.

This was already ruled out by Nigel Wood this month but evidently something said by Hudgell last year is more important!

And the words that you forgot to include were "I am sorry for talking bolox about Sky wanting London as a prerequisite for a TV deal in each and every one of my posts and for arrogantly dismissing the opinions of those who said otherwise".

Edited by Northern Sol, 24 March 2013 - 09:54 AM.