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Nigel Wood- London must improve


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#81 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 09:22 AM

2 steps forward one backwards, is still going forward. It might not be incredible but its more than we ever had before.


I agree with what you and NL say
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#82 The Parksider

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 09:22 AM


By pulling up the drawbridge I mean settling for what we've got. Forced expansion has been tried all over England and Wales and it clearly doesn't work. Scorpions attracted 329 fans the other week. Crusaders about twice that number. I'd love people to flock to our game and demand a pro club, but until they do, we need to consolidate what we've got and allow the heartland clubs (including Catalan) to grow stronger.


So we're still talking :) thank goodness for that!

I am lost here. You say Scorpions attracted just over 300 fans last week. Did you know Hunslet attracted just over 300 fans this week??

You say Crusaders got over 600 fans last week.

I am again lost because the Oldham/Rochdale derby attracted LESS than 600 fans this week.

It's clear that the game is weak in Wales and it's clear the game is weak in Hunslet/Oldham/Rochdale.

Your equating "heartlands" with strong and "Non-heartlands" with weak. It just does not work like that does it.

Now how strong are London?

When they were winning games they were good for 5,000 fans.

When Salford were winning games so were they, although they got more away fans than London.

Less than 2000 watched salford lose to London, and less than 2000 watched London lose to HKR.

So "London doesn't work" as it's "forced expansion" but Salford is somehow working?

Can you see the double standards here??

How strong is RL in Manchester/Salford? How strong is it in London??.

I think you'll find far more people playing RL in London and the south east than you will in Salford/Manchester??

Yet you reason that we should just give London up to concentrate where we are strong??

You see RL is weak all over the country apart from Superleague. In Superleague areas the game is a lot stronger. Hull, Calder, Leeds, South bradford/hudds/halifax, and Mid east lancs.

You say "Expansion has been tried all over england and wales and it doesn't work"

Here is a list of places where RL also doesn't work......

Rochdale, Swinton, Liverpool, Manchester, Chorley, Blackpoool, Oldham, Workington, Whitehaven, Hunslet, keighley, Bramley, York, Scarborough, Huyton, Doncaster etc...

Did you know Gateshead attracted 4,000 crowds to their games in Superleague?

Did you know Crusaders first big game in SL against Saints attracted 6,000 fans??

Have you see that people on here precict Featherstone to get about 5,000 if they get in Superleague???

Did you know that there are more top professionals in the game from Wales than from Wakefield?

More top professionals in the game from London than from Salford??

You can tell me different, I don't want to be accusatory, but you talk about Halifax, leigh and Sheffield in a Superleague set up?

Did you know Leigh's ageing crowd is dropping and they have to be propped up by a supporters group?

Did you know that even after nearly 30 years Sheffield can only get a 1,000 crowd and still don't produce top professionals.

Again you seem to equate success entirely to being within reach of the M62 and failure to be anywhere other than the M62.

It's just not true is it?

#83 henage

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 10:03 AM

great post ,

#84 deluded pom?

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:14 PM

Trojan can you please define the "heartlands"? You have Sheffield in your two tier SL yet surely by your own description they are not "heartlands" but forced expansion. Could you also define "strong" whilst you are at it, where in your opinion is "strong" at this moment in time?.

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#85 Johnoco

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:23 PM

NW Crusaders seem to be building on decent foundations now. Which is odd given their start in life but if it leads to bona fide clubs in the end it may work out.
As for people criticising Crusaders & Scorpions gates....what is expected? Barcelona style sell outs every week?

No I don't care if you're if you're into different bands

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#86 The Parksider

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:30 PM

As for people criticising Crusaders & Scorpions gates....what is expected? Barcelona style sell outs every week?


Les Catalans game in Barcelona against Warrington gave them a massive gate and the M62 mob criticised that!!

Nobody is interested in the Rugby code in places like Spain and Italy apparently?

#87 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:33 PM

So we're still talking :) thank goodness for that!

I am lost here. You say Scorpions attracted just over 300 fans last week. Did you know Hunslet attracted just over 300 fans this week??

You say Crusaders got over 600 fans last week.

I am again lost because the Oldham/Rochdale derby attracted LESS than 600 fans this week.

It's clear that the game is weak in Wales and it's clear the game is weak in Hunslet/Oldham/Rochdale.

Your equating "heartlands" with strong and "Non-heartlands" with weak. It just does not work like that does it.

Now how strong are London?

When they were winning games they were good for 5,000 fans.

When Salford were winning games so were they, although they got more away fans than London.

Less than 2000 watched salford lose to London, and less than 2000 watched London lose to HKR.

So "London doesn't work" as it's "forced expansion" but Salford is somehow working?

Can you see the double standards here??

How strong is RL in Manchester/Salford? How strong is it in London??.

I think you'll find far more people playing RL in London and the south east than you will in Salford/Manchester??

Yet you reason that we should just give London up to concentrate where we are strong??

You see RL is weak all over the country apart from Superleague. In Superleague areas the game is a lot stronger. Hull, Calder, Leeds, South bradford/hudds/halifax, and Mid east lancs.

You say "Expansion has been tried all over england and wales and it doesn't work"

Here is a list of places where RL also doesn't work......

Rochdale, Swinton, Liverpool, Manchester, Chorley, Blackpoool, Oldham, Workington, Whitehaven, Hunslet, keighley, Bramley, York, Scarborough, Huyton, Doncaster etc...

Did you know Gateshead attracted 4,000 crowds to their games in Superleague?

Did you know Crusaders first big game in SL against Saints attracted 6,000 fans??

Have you see that people on here precict Featherstone to get about 5,000 if they get in Superleague???

Did you know that there are more top professionals in the game from Wales than from Wakefield?

More top professionals in the game from London than from Salford??

You can tell me different, I don't want to be accusatory, but you talk about Halifax, leigh and Sheffield in a Superleague set up?

Did you know Leigh's ageing crowd is dropping and they have to be propped up by a supporters group?

Did you know that even after nearly 30 years Sheffield can only get a 1,000 crowd and still don't produce top professionals.

Again you seem to equate success entirely to being within reach of the M62 and failure to be anywhere other than the M62.

It's just not true is it?


Nothing proves a point more than incredibly selective stats.

We got 16,000 to a game in Tatarstan and 16,000 to a World Cup semi-final in the North West. Therefore the game is as strong in Tatarstan as the North West of England.

#88 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:34 PM

Les Catalans game in Barcelona against Warrington gave them a massive gate and the M62 mob criticised that!!

Nobody is interested in the Rugby code in places like Spain and Italy apparently?


Yes because there were clearly 17,000 Spanish people at the game weren't there?

#89 Ackroman

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 01:33 PM

London is a place of "events" and sports fans in London can watch a sporting event probably once a week. If you're going to pitch your sport at this level then clearly you have to have something to offer, and by pitching your name as London, I think subliminally your saying a game at the London Broncos is an event, where every other week some hot shot team descends on the capital to thrash it out in front of 10's of thousands of fans.

Clearly SL doesn't offer this, in fact RL only offers this level of event twice a year, once in London, once in Manchester. So the mistake was to over pitch RL in London to a city used to many tiers of sporting opportunity. London, as a name just says the wrong thing.

My second point is that RL is a grass roots sport. In any given town or city where RL is played the link between the roots of the game and the professional level is as close as it ever was regardless of what we call it these days.

In London there are plenty teams playing the game and plenty of people interested in it but the professional club has to be as close to this community as possible not still pitching itself at the wrong punter.

#90 gingerjon

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 01:36 PM

I lived in Wood Green for a few years shortly before Skolars went pro.

The crucial difference between the Stoop and Nee River is that the New River is 10 min walk to a zone 3 tube station, whilst The Stoop is a ten min walk but only to a zone 6 train station


I did the times a little while ago so I'm reposting now with 'added New River' ...

Taking the wonderful Chandos pub on St Martin's Lane as the starting point and asking the TfL journey planner how long it would take to get there on a Saturday afternoon these are the official timings:

Loftus Road - 49 minutes
Craven Cottage - 55 minutes
Griffin Park - 60 minutes
The Valley - 50 minutes
The New Den - 40 minutes
Selhurst Park - 51 minutes
Matchroom Stadium - 50 minutes
Fans' Stadium - 65 minutes
Priestfield, Gillingham - 90 minutes
The Stoop - 60 minutes
New River (Skolars) – 53 minutes


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#91 RLRatings

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 01:36 PM

Yes because there were clearly 17,000 Spanish people at the game weren't there?


Mostly, yes. They'd probably prefer to be called Catalonian though.
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#92 Dave T

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 02:13 PM

Les Catalans game in Barcelona against Warrington gave them a massive gate and the M62 mob criticised that!!

Who criticised what?

#93 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 02:46 PM

London is a place of "events" and sports fans in London can watch a sporting event probably once a week. If you're going to pitch your sport at this level then clearly you have to have something to offer, and by pitching your name as London, I think subliminally your saying a game at the London Broncos is an event, where every other week some hot shot team descends on the capital to thrash it out in front of 10's of thousands of fans.

Clearly SL doesn't offer this, in fact RL only offers this level of event twice a year, once in London, once in Manchester. So the mistake was to over pitch RL in London to a city used to many tiers of sporting opportunity. London, as a name just says the wrong thing.

My second point is that RL is a grass roots sport. In any given town or city where RL is played the link between the roots of the game and the professional level is as close as it ever was regardless of what we call it these days.

In London there are plenty teams playing the game and plenty of people interested in it but the professional club has to be as close to this community as possible not still pitching itself at the wrong punter.


here here
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#94 The Parksider

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 03:21 PM

Who criticised what?


A series of people have regularly laughed at the idea that Rugby league could ever catch on outside the M62.

Lyndsay thought Rome could one day have a Rugby SL side. Italy HAS a history of RL and the country does love it's Rugby but Union are doing well not us.

He was roundly mocked yet he had a point, Italy play six nations.

Paris and North Wales got thumping crowds, Fulham started with a big crowd, Barcelona had a big attendance.

All these attendances have been dismissed as free tickets, novelties etc etc etc.

Why they all fail is the same reason Salford, Bradford, Wakefield, Oldham, etc fail - a lack of the neccessary sustained investment, and NOT because people outside M62 land don't like the game.

That's the point I make to clear up any confusion!

That's also IMHO of course :D

#95 Johnoco

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 03:39 PM

RL expansion has only been really happening since the mid to late 90's. ie not sticking random teams here and there, it failing then declaring 'no one likes RL except in bits of West Yorkshire.

No I don't care if you're if you're into different bands

No cause for so much hatred, I'm just a different man

Pull off that cover, I will too, and learn to understand

With music deep inside we'll make world unity our plan

 

7 Seconds -Walk Together, Rock Together


#96 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 04:20 PM

Mostly, yes. They'd probably prefer to be called Catalonian though.


There was a very small amount of Spanish people there. There was a majority of French Catalonian fans but not Spanish.

It's no different than claiming Edinburgh can get good crowds for RL when 60,000 fans turned up there. The reality being that the vast vast majority travelled in from outside.

I'm not knocking it as an event btw, just pointing out how ludicrous it is to use as an example of potential support in a place like Barcelona.

Edited by Maximus Decimus, 11 March 2013 - 04:21 PM.


#97 Brisvegan

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 04:32 PM

I lived in Wood Green for a few years shortly before Skolars went pro.

The crucial difference between the Stoop and Nee River is that the New River is 10 min walk to a zone 3 tube station, whilst The Stoop is a ten min walk but only to a zone 6 train station

I hope you and GJ don't mind me butting into your TFL debate but maybe you would like to hear from someone who would like to go to more top level rugby league in London? I have lived in SE London for 16 years and have been to the Stoop three times and once to Griffin Park. For the The Stoop it's an easy journey, changing at Clapham Junction for a Twickenham train, or for Griffin Park to Richmond (I think) where I got a bus, which was quite a pleasant journey past Key Gardens. Personally I hate the tube and when using the TFL journey planner do my darndest to avoid it. Especially in summer.
A ten minute walk in Wood Green (any decent pubs awaiting?) at the end of a long depressing tube journey fills me with dread. I know even uttering the word "Twickenham" is distasteful but, as leafy and rah rah as it is in those parts, at least there are some decent pubs. Even the Wetherspoons is pretty good!
What keeps me from going to see the Broncos is that they are ######. I will try to get along when they are at home to Warrington or Wigan but if I knew those were going to be good close games I would definitely be going, with as many friends that I could drag along.

#98 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 04:38 PM

One of the problems that London have is that they are in a catch 22. Regardless of the quality of the rugby, the game day itself is lacking in atmosphere and I can imagine is a pretty depressing experience at times. People don't like being associated with things like that. It's very hard to grow from such a low base without a sustained improvement on the field like Huddersfield saw.

The only chance they have is persistance and a good side for a few years. God only knows how they will get that.

#99 Jeff Stein

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 04:55 PM

One of the problems that London have is that they are in a catch 22. Regardless of the quality of the rugby, the game day itself is lacking in atmosphere and I can imagine is a pretty depressing experience at times. People don't like being associated with things like that. It's very hard to grow from such a low base without a sustained improvement on the field like Huddersfield saw.

The only chance they have is persistance and a good side for a few years. God only knows how they will get that.


Excellent post. People are attracting by other people going to an event. No matter how good the product is on the field a lack of atmosphere won't appeal to the casual punter

#100 Vikingste

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 05:22 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk...league/21634020
Nigel Wood: RFL's London presence 'not right'
The chief executive of the Rugby Football League says the governing body needs to improve its strategy in London.


Its probably time someone asked Nigel Wood to improve as Well




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