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Nigel Wood- London must improve


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#101 Brisvegan

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 05:24 PM

Excellent post. People are attracting by other people going to an event. No matter how good the product is on the field a lack of atmosphere won't appeal to the casual punter

Any thoughts on how it's possible to leverage a decent "atmosphere" out of a losing team playing rubbish rugby? Sure you aren't putting the cart before the horse?
It's not a "Catch 22", which just implies that London's plight is beyond logical solution. Catch 22 is:
Yossarian asks Doc if he will ground him. Doc says sure, just tell me you're crazy and I have to ground you. Yossarian says, OK I'm crazy, so you can ground me. Right? Wrong! Doc says now I can't ground you because your refusal to fly proves you have a very sane desire for self preservation.

#102 Jeff Stein

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 05:40 PM

Any thoughts on how it's possible to leverage a decent "atmosphere" out of a losing team playing rubbish rugby? Sure you aren't putting the cart before the horse?
It's not a "Catch 22", which just implies that London's plight is beyond logical solution. Catch 22 is:
Yossarian asks Doc if he will ground him. Doc says sure, just tell me you're crazy and I have to ground you. Yossarian says, OK I'm crazy, so you can ground me. Right? Wrong! Doc says now I can't ground you because your refusal to fly proves you have a very sane desire for self preservation.


Well I think most union afficiandos would not be describing Ireland France or England Italy as anything but bad matches, but clearly the fact is that large numbers have attended and presumably enjoyed as they keep buying tickets. I have attended poor football games which ended in goalless draws which I have enjoyed. If I saw the same game on Tv I think I would find it turgid.

Personally I enjoy (bar the stuff on the pitch) Broncos matches because I am there with mates. However, I can see how if I was there as a casual visitor I might be put off by a couple of thousand people rattling around in the ground, no matter how good the match was. I think until a certain number of speccies attend it is difficult to convert visitors into fans.

#103 THE RED ROOSTER

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 11:40 PM

Some very tired arguments on here.

Posters who do not go to Broncos matches endorsing expansion at all costs regardless of the fact that professional sport is meant to be a business. Posters demanding Rugby Leagues own welfare state where a London club lives off RFL: subsidies that will continue ad infinitum. Unrealistic in that UK sport is based on a private ownership model and inevitably that would mean giving money to those who have created the problem in the first place who ignore the advice that the RFL gives them anyway,as with the appouintment of Rob Powell

The value of London to a sport that is transforming into a feeder league for the NRL and RFU. lay in a moderately sucessful club with reasonable attendances that would allow the RFL to approach broadcasters and sponsors and say "we are a national sport" and get a TV contract that reflected it. As things stand you have a cellar dwelling club with paltry attendances so when the RFL goes to the media and searches for sponsors the reply would be "Who are you trying to kid". Remember we now live in a world where even the editorially pro-league Independent accuses the game of "living a lie" http://www.independe...ey-8081362.html

This does impact on a sport which has no main title sponsor and now is tarred as a Northern M62 sport like it or not.

The fact is London Broncos are a very badly run sporting club who have been bad for some time, past the point of no return IMO, The club's inevitable demise will leave a toxic legacy for league in the South and potentially damn future expansion attempts. As it will be posted and said "remember the London Broncos - what a success they were".

There have been some psuedo-scientfic articles by scientists when apart from justifying their own athestic belief system, claim that league in london fails because it has never neen given enough time. In truth a scientist should know that you cannot run an experiment when your test subject has been contaminated and that is the case here due to the shambolic nature of the club and the way it has been run on and off the field..I am not of the belief that London was / is infertile territory for league but to paraphrase Lloyd George the ownership has sold every pass we had.

There are lots of London Broncos posters on here with widely differing views on most things, some of which I profundly disagree with, yet all are as of one voice when iot comes to how the club has been run. We cannot all be wrong

I read Dave Parker has come up with London moving to Saracens, presumably this is based upon the 10,000 seat stadium (15.000 capacity is sadly too big) and the 3G Pitch. Unfortunately Mr Parker if you had been reading TRL:you would have seen in some of my earlier posts that Saracens agreement with Barnet Council allows 16 matchdays only with the rest of the time the stadium for community and athletics use. This is lazy journalism and a non-starter.

That is of course assuming the London Nomads get on the field next season wherever they may play - and my hunch is as a revenue stream for Leyton Orient. What is clear is that the remaining hard core will shrink further as ST holders like myself simply will not renew, and if you look on facebook and elsewhere you will see I am not alone in this.

My point is that for those who are concerned about Rugby League as a sport. How much longer can the RFL and other clubs allow this situation to continue without taking decisive action to either change the ownership of the club or engage in damage limitatrion by announcing midway through this year that the club will not compete in Super League 2014 or is everyone happy with the clubs slow motion demise?

Edited by THE RED ROOSTER, 12 March 2013 - 11:41 PM.

I am an oil trader and successful at that but, but marketing, finance, business management, human resources etc are not my strengths


 

 

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Being an outsider, it is easiest to see what is wrong with the sport. It's a fantastic sport that has been undersold and under-marketed  because people who run it probably want to keep it the way it is

 

 

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#104 The Parksider

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 06:50 AM

The value of London to a sport that is transforming into a feeder league for the NRL and RFU. lay in a moderately sucessful club with reasonable attendances that would allow the RFL to approach broadcasters and sponsors and say "we are a national sport" and get a TV contract that reflected it. As things stand you have a cellar dwelling club with paltry attendances so when the RFL goes to the media and searches for sponsors the reply would be "Who are you trying to kid". Remember we now live in a world where even the editorially pro-league Independent accuses the game of "living a lie" http://www.independe...ey-8081362.html


Don't let disappointment colour your judgement.

RL was an M62 sport at one time but now is played all over the country. That's a fact. Ask them in Hemel and Harringay

London is seen as important because it heads the south east player development system and not primarily because it attracts a bigger TV contract, which it may or may not do.

RL is watched all over Britain so it's watched nationally.

TV gets good viewing figures, people like the game. It isn't widely played because it's too tough a sport and the vast majority of likely players are already playing union. I live within a whistle of the umpteen times SL grand final winners and there aren't dozens of teams bashing heck out of each other within minutes of the ground.

You should IMHO consider the wider picture not just you own regrets.....

London's problems are primarily poor performance, in the past they have achieved higher table rankings and even got to Wembley. The state of the club is down to how it's run everyone is saying that, it's not down to the idea RL is only an M62 sport.

If you want to find truly failing clubs "that have been given enough time" who get awful results and can't attract even 500 fans and have little junior RL, come to the strong heartlands of the M62 we have plenty of them.............

Edited by The Parksider, 13 March 2013 - 07:43 AM.


#105 Ackroman

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 11:17 AM

Don't let disappointment colour your judgement.

RL was an M62 sport at one time but now is played all over the country. That's a fact. Ask them in Hemel and Harringay

London is seen as important because it heads the south east player development system and not primarily because it attracts a bigger TV contract, which it may or may not do.

RL is watched all over Britain so it's watched nationally.

TV gets good viewing figures, people like the game. It isn't widely played because it's too tough a sport and the vast majority of likely players are already playing union. I live within a whistle of the umpteen times SL grand final winners and there aren't dozens of teams bashing heck out of each other within minutes of the ground.

You should IMHO consider the wider picture not just you own regrets.....

London's problems are primarily poor performance, in the past they have achieved higher table rankings and even got to Wembley. The state of the club is down to how it's run everyone is saying that, it's not down to the idea RL is only an M62 sport.

If you want to find truly failing clubs "that have been given enough time" who get awful results and can't attract even 500 fans and have little junior RL, come to the strong heartlands of the M62 we have plenty of them.............


London do have the issue of poor performance but the bottom line is that this can be rectified quickly.

What cannot be rectified overnight are the decision made about the clubs identity and who/what it targets as an audience. It's chased all sorts of tail in the last few years rather than making strategic decisions about it's punters and where/what they are.

London as a city has a massive draw with an unlimited appetite for sport but RL only offers the glitteratti of London 1 yearly event to get their teeth into.
Watching the Bronco's should be pitched to a different punter, not the same bunch. The corporate customer has deep pockets but a lot of choice and you can't pitch a fairly low rent RL club at these people just because there might be a lot of them.

The London club has to build on it's subscribers, the guys with season tickets, the fans with a hunger for RL. Does the club actually understand these people?

#106 JohnM

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 11:33 AM

Its probably time someone asked Nigel Wood to improve as Well


in what respect? if you were conducting his annual performance appraisal, what would be your measures of success and how would you rate him against those? what would you see as his areas for improvement?

#107 Dave T

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 01:06 PM

in what respect? if you were conducting his annual performance appraisal, what would be your measures of success and how would you rate him against those? what would you see as his areas for improvement?

indeed

#108 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:20 PM

London do have the issue of poor performance but the bottom line is that this can be rectified quickly.

What cannot be rectified overnight are the decision made about the clubs identity and who/what it targets as an audience. It's chased all sorts of tail in the last few years rather than making strategic decisions about it's punters and where/what they are.

London as a city has a massive draw with an unlimited appetite for sport but RL only offers the glitteratti of London 1 yearly event to get their teeth into.
Watching the Bronco's should be pitched to a different punter, not the same bunch. The corporate customer has deep pockets but a lot of choice and you can't pitch a fairly low rent RL club at these people just because there might be a lot of them.

The London club has to build on it's subscribers, the guys with season tickets, the fans with a hunger for RL. Does the club actually understand these people?


excellent analysis if I may say so.
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#109 The Parksider

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:27 PM

London do have the issue of poor performance but the bottom line is that this can be rectified quickly.

What cannot be rectified overnight are the decision made about the clubs identity and who/what it targets as an audience. It's chased all sorts of tail in the last few years rather than making strategic decisions about it's punters and where/what they are.

London as a city has a massive draw with an unlimited appetite for sport but RL only offers the glitteratti of London 1 yearly event to get their teeth into.
Watching the Bronco's should be pitched to a different punter, not the same bunch. The corporate customer has deep pockets but a lot of choice and you can't pitch a fairly low rent RL club at these people just because there might be a lot of them.

The London club has to build on it's subscribers, the guys with season tickets, the fans with a hunger for RL. Does the club actually understand these people?


Yes great stuff

#110 foozler

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 04:03 PM

What keeps me from going to see the Broncos is that they are ######.


In a nutshell, I think you have the basic problem there.

If the product you are selling/ marketing is rubbish, people might consume it once or twice but no more after that. As you say, the likes of Wigan or Saints or Leeds coming to town should be a big draw but who wants to pay to watch a one sided contest when you can see it in the pub for free?

How much would it cost the RFL to buy the club outright?

#111 jpmc

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 04:28 PM

Buying London is the cheap bit its running them which is expensive,this is why the rfl couldn't afford it.
SLE ltd could afford it by dropping two clubs and spending the money saved on the London club until they become self sufficient. Easy.

#112 Ackroman

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 04:31 PM

excellent analysis if I may say so.

I appreciate your comments

#113 Ackroman

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 04:32 PM

Yes great stuff

ditto

#114 Northern Sol

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 07:13 PM

Buying London is the cheap bit its running them which is expensive,this is why the rfl couldn't afford it.
SLE ltd could afford it by dropping two clubs and spending the money saved on the London club until they become self sufficient. Easy.


Assuming that Sky would agree to pay the same for a 12-club league as it would for a 14-club league you mean.

#115 nadera78

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 07:53 PM

Assuming that Sky would agree to pay the same for a 12-club league as it would for a 14-club league you mean.


Why would they not? They'd still get two games a week and enough material for the magazine shows. And there's an argument that not spreading the talent so thinly would create a more level playing field and thus tighter games.
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#116 Northern Sol

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 08:31 PM

Why would they not? They'd still get two games a week and enough material for the magazine shows. And there's an argument that not spreading the talent so thinly would create a more level playing field and thus tighter games.


Because with 14 clubs, there are 14 sets of fans buying subscriptions plus they get to pick two games out of seven not six. Not to mention that 12 means the return of loop fixtures.

#117 JohnM

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 08:32 PM

indeed


so what is your take?

#118 Trojan

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 08:34 PM

Now how strong are London?

London attracted 1600 fans against Hull KR - by the sound of it at least half of those fans were from Hull. 800 hardcore supporters is not what Superleague is supposed to be about.
You misunderstand "heartlands" I regard Catalan as "heartlands" places where the game is strong and healthy. TBH I'm not surprised there were only 300 at Hunlset - how many fans can you expect for a Leeds A team game? Because that's part of the problem - SL clubs using Championship clubs to keep their players match fit is hardly likely to inspire loyalty from fans is it. Indeed it devalues the entire comp.
But to get back to London - if we have to persevere with them I suggest one way to improve their crowds is a. to play somewhere nearer the north of London and b. to rename that after that area so that people can identify with them. London is big city, Harringey, or Highbury, or Harrow are small communities.
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#119 Saintslass

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 08:37 PM

London attracted 1600 fans against Hull KR - by the sound of it at least half of those fans were from Hull.

I very much doubt that! I watched the game and the contingent from Hull was small, tucked away in one corner of the main stand. I'd say London's home support increased from the previous week so it was even worse that they performed to the standard of a pub team. There are a number of London players who deserve nothing but the sack.

#120 Dave T

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 08:37 PM

so what is your take?

I was agreeing with you.

I suspect many fans have no clue what Wood has done, and if they were responsible for his appraisal would have something like:
"stop being nasty to my club and stop eating pies..."




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