343 replies to this topic

[Lobbygobbler]

2 fewer teams means nothing to Sky because it's extremely doubtful that anyone would cancel their subscriptions. Less choice of games? Sky go out of their way to pick games they think will be competitive, which is even more true of a 12 team league. Yes, four fewer rounds of SL, but two of those weekends will be filled with internationals instead. So only two fewer weeks of games for them.

Dropping to 12 so long as proper promotion and relegation is re-instated would actually increase subscriptions. Any lost subs from the two dropped clubs would be far outweighed by take ups from the many fecked off fans of clubs outside SL who gave up their subs after scrapping P&R. I'm one of them.

I also think that fans like watching relegation battles too rather than meaningless second half of season games.

[JohnM]

With an insight like that, I wonder why sky hasn't snapped you up for their business forecasting team.

[EastLondonMike]

Maybe another reason east London might look attractive to the Bronco's, whenever they decide to move..

taken from an article about BT Sport.

"BT Sport is the name for BT’s new sports broadcasting arm, which will showcase three new sports channels from the Olympic Park Broadcast Centre in Stratford, London."

http://recombu.com/digital/news/what-is-bt-sport_M11154.html

[Lobbygobbler]

With an insight like that, I wonder why sky hasn't snapped you up for their business forecasting team.

Thanks John!

[l'angelo mysterioso]

I also think that fans like watching relegation battles too rather than meaningless second half of season games.

despite repeatedly having been presented with documentary evidence that;

they very rarely happened

and

when they did the effect almost invariably was not what you say.

[Trojan]

How many clubs has there been in Wales in 118 years?

12
Myrthyr (1907-10) Ebbw Vale (1907-11) Aberdare (1908/9) Barry (1908/9) Terherbert (1908/9) Mid Rhondda (1908/9) Pontypridd (1926/7) Cardiff (1951/52) Cardiff Blue Dragons - then Bridgend (early 80's) Celtic Crusaders, South Wales Scorpions, Crusaders. Plus there were also Coventry (1910/11) Acton & Wlsden (1935/36) and Streatham and Mitcham (1935/36)

[Trojan]

despite repeatedly having been presented with documentary evidence that;

they very rarely happened

and

when they did the effect almost invariably was not what you say.

What else can you do to increase interest at the end of the season when the bottom clubs clearly aren't going to win anything. The players are just going through the motions and if they come up against one of the top clubs they invariably get murdered. Surely this is not what Rugby League should be about. I reckon the game's current malaise is all about the lack of P&R and the SL clubs using the Championship clubs for A teams. It has to stop. P&R will immediately eliminate the A team practice by the SL clubs surely.

[Johnoco]

12
Myrthyr (1907-10) Ebbw Vale (1907-11) Aberdare (1908/9) Barry (1908/9) Terherbert (1908/9) Mid Rhondda (1908/9) Pontypridd (1926/7) Cardiff (1951/52) Cardiff Blue Dragons - then Bridgend (early 80's) Celtic Crusaders, South Wales Scorpions, Crusaders. Plus there were also Coventry (1910/11) Acton & Wlsden (1935/36) and Streatham and Mitcham (1935/36)

So 12 in 118 years, half of which were in the first decade of the 20th Century, some in the 20's with one in the 1950's and one in the 80's.
(Crusaders and Scorpions are still active clubs doing ok-ish)

That's hardly what you describe. Its definitely NOT trying and trying. Its sticking a team somewhere and hoping for the best. The early Welsh clubs were part of their own league I think.

Edited by Johnoco, 16 March 2013 - 10:38 AM.

[Tre Cool]

I hate P&R and im dreading the RFL buckling to the pressure and reinstating it.

[jpmc]

I hate P&R and im dreading the RFL buckling to the pressure and reinstating it.

I love P&R and i'm looking forward to the sl clubs allowing it again

[JohnM]

I love dinosaurs but like the failed and discredited rl p and r, are extinct..and a good thing too.

Edited by JohnM, 16 March 2013 - 10:48 AM.

[deluded pom?]

I don't think P&R has failed as such. I just think it's not been done properly in the past and the advent of SL was a case of we're all right Jack and the teams outside of SL were never given a second thought.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

So 12 in 118 years, half of which were in the first decade of the 20th Century, some in the 20's with one in the 1950's and one in the 80's.
(Crusaders and Scorpions are still active clubs doing ok-ish)

That's hardly what you describe. Its definitely NOT trying and trying. Its sticking a team somewhere and hoping for the best. The early Welsh clubs were part of their own league I think.

let's look at the so calld 'heartlands' where the game is apparently strong and wher it was founded.

Bramley
Carlisle(in several incarnations over almos acentury)
Chorley
Highfied
Scarborough
Trafford
Bradford
mannigham(inaugural champions)
Brighouse Rangers
Broughton/belle Vue Rangers
Runcorn(theoriginal Runcorn)
Stockport
Tyldesley
Altrincham
Birkenhead
Blackpool
Holbeck
Liverpool City
St helens Recs
Wigan Highfield
Springfield Borough
Bradford Northern

some o fthese clubs are the same club with a different nae: te Trfford Borough syndrome-an indictment in itself.
Bradford Northern were one of the biggest clubs of the post war era but still went under in 1962
mannigham and Bradford changed codes.

I'veprobably missed some.

These weren't attempts at missionary work. I find it a source of sadness that Rugby League has a so called 'heartlands', somethingwhic others seem proud of and somthing which depressingly we are being urged to retreat to.

Do cricket, union, soccer, field hockey blah de blah have heartlands? Do they hell.

[deluded pom?]

let's look at the so calld 'heartlands' where the game is apparently strong and wher it was founded.

Bramley
Carlisle(in several incarnations over almos acentury)
Chorley
Highfied
Scarborough
Trafford
Bradford
mannigham(inaugural champions)
Brighouse Rangers
Broughton/belle Vue Rangers
Runcorn(theoriginal Runcorn)
Stockport
Tyldesley
Altrincham
Birkenhead
Blackpool
Holbeck
Liverpool City
St helens Recs
Wigan Highfield
Springfield Borough
Bradford Northern

some o fthese clubs are the same club with a different nae: te Trfford Borough syndrome-an indictment in itself.
Bradford Northern were one of the biggest clubs of the post war era but still went under in 1962
mannigham and Bradford changed codes.

I'veprobably missed some.

These weren't attempts at missionary work. I find it a source of sadness that Rugby League has a so called 'heartlands', somethingwhic others seem proud of and somthing which depressingly we are being urged to retreat to.

Do cricket, union, soccer, field hockey blah de blah have heartlands? Do they hell.

I agree with your last "heartlands" comment to a degree but did cricket, soccer or field hockey have the same restraints on them that RL/NU had from day one i.e. an influential other sport with a vested interest in keeping RL down and restricted as much as they possibly could? No wonder the game has a "heartlands" geographically restricted to the north of England. What we need to do is put the past behind us as best we can and attempt to extend the "heartlands" so that the term itself becomes irrelevant.

Edited by deluded pom?, 16 March 2013 - 10:56 AM.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

I agree with your last "heartlands" comment to a degree but did cricket, soccer or field hockey have the same restraints on them that RL/NU had from day one i.e. an influential other sport with a vested interest in keeping RL down and restricted as much as they possibly could? No wonder the game has a "heartlands" geographically restricted to the north of England. What we need to do is put the past behind us as best we can and attempt to extend the "heartlands" so that the term itself becomes irrelevant.

Good point: no they didn't and that's been one of the core, unique even, challenges that Rugby League has had to face. I'm well aware of the historic issus that Rugby League has had and still has to deal with.

What I find debilitating, is people's attititude from within the game to the situation, and it isn't just geograohy either-Rugby League's demography is far narrower than say Union, which has strong support from working class people, right through to the Royal family. There's a kind of pride in it, an inwardlookingnesswhich whilst providing a steady income for professional Northerners isn't good for the sport.
This retreating to 'the heartlands' attitude is not only pathetic in its small mindedness, it's counterproductive, and IMHO incredibly boring.

If we live by the principle that Rugby League is a Northern game for working class Northern people, then we are doomed. Rugby League isn't even the major sort in its own 'heartlands', it generates a stereotype-bad in itself, even worse because it isn't somethingthat ohter people can or want to identify with. It's unmarketable and it's dreary.

The ridiculous self serving idea behind the two tier sL whish relates to tyhis thread, is massively retrogressive. It's the reintroduction by stealth of a structur that was killing the game, purely on the basis that it suits hte agenda of the original poster and those who share his attitudes.

Edited by l'angelo mysterioso, 16 March 2013 - 11:46 AM.

[The Parksider]

What I find debilitating, is people's attititude from within the game to the situation, and it isn't just geography either-Rugby League's demography is far narrower than say Union, which has strong support from working class people, right through to the Royal family.

This retreating to 'the heartlands' attitude is not only pathetic in its small mindedness, it's counterproductive, and IMHO incredibly boring.

The ridiculous self serving idea behind the two tier sL whish relates to tyhis thread, is massively retrogressive. It's the reintroduction by stealth of a structure that was killing the game, purely on the basis that it suits the agenda of the original poster and those who share his attitudes.

Great post and the idea "Rugby" appeals to all classes in places where it was the only version of the game, and to separate classes where the classes could access either code, is a brilliant observation.

The forum of course will be riddled with ridiculous self serving attitudes, it's something that drives all of us to "see it our way". I'm accused of being personally "all for Superleague" and in a way I suppose I am.

But that doesn't mean I hate the little clubs which the "Oi you spilled my pint" brigade like to accuse me of.

I think the northern game is in it's death throes in a way and so there will be a lot of emotion. castigating London's failures whilst saying nothing about Salfords equivalent failures is a typical double standard.

What is essential to the game is it expands and if there's no money for it at top level then at least encourage it at other levels which the RFL do do. I may be right I may be wrong but to try to get back to an exclusive M62 flagship will IMHO send a signal to the rest of Britain this is a game that doesn't want to be anything other than "northern".

[Trojan]

So 12 in 118 years, half of which were in the first decade of the 20th Century, some in the 20's with one in the 1950's and one in the 80's.
(Crusaders and Scorpions are still active clubs doing ok-ish)

That's hardly what you describe. Its definitely NOT trying and trying. Its sticking a team somewhere and hoping for the best. The early Welsh clubs were part of their own league I think.

What you say about the League is true, but add to the league the attempt with Pontypridd in 1925/6 Caridff in 1952/2, Cardiff BD in 1981, and Celtic Crusaders - RL in Wales is like a child that never learns that sticking his hand in the fire hurts.

[The Parksider]

RL in Wales is like a child that never learns that sticking his hand in the fire hurts.

It stuck it's hand in Blackpool, Liverpool, Manchester, Sheffield, Chorley, Doncaster, York, Scarboro and it hurt there too.

Double standards mate.....

[Trojan]

let's look at the so calld 'heartlands' where the game is apparently strong and wher it was founded.

Bramley
Carlisle(in several incarnations over almos acentury)
Chorley
Highfied
Scarborough
Trafford
Bradford
mannigham(inaugural champions)
Brighouse Rangers
Broughton/belle Vue Rangers
Runcorn(theoriginal Runcorn)
Stockport
Tyldesley
Altrincham
Birkenhead
Blackpool
Holbeck
Liverpool City
St helens Recs
Wigan Highfield
Springfield Borough
Bradford Northern

some o fthese clubs are the same club with a different nae: te Trfford Borough syndrome-an indictment in itself.
Bradford Northern were one of the biggest clubs of the post war era but still went under in 1962
mannigham and Bradford changed codes.

I'veprobably missed some.

These weren't attempts at missionary work. I find it a source of sadness that Rugby League has a so called 'heartlands', somethingwhic others seem proud of and somthing which depressingly we are being urged to retreat to.

Do cricket, union, soccer, field hockey blah de blah have heartlands? Do they hell.

yes you've probably included some that continued under other names too. The point about South Wales is that there are plenty of people there who are actively hostile to Rugby League. I'll never forget the smirk on the face of the Welsh guy who told me about Caridff/Bridgend folding - I was on holiday in Folkstone - he was clearly delighted.
I don't like the fact the RL at pro level seems to be confined to it's birth counties, but the fact remains that every attempt so far to establish the game elsewhere at pro level has turned out to be a disaster.

[Trojan]

It stuck it's hand in Blackpool, Liverpool, Manchester, Sheffield, Chorley, Doncaster, York, Scarboro and it hurt there too.

Double standards mate.....

Kettle and pot again parky.
Doncaster and York are still there. As I can tell you (as a Fev fan) are Sheffield. And how many attempts have there been at the others? We seem obsessed with South Wales -as I said earlier - they don't want us. There was a chance in1995 when the Welsh RL team were in their pomp with Davies, Scott Gibbs, Devereaux, Quinell, Bateman, David Young all playing RL, and large numbers of Welsh fans came to Old Trafford to see their favourites play England in the WC semi. But the RFL bottled it.