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Meanwhile "our" Gov't tries to look after its mates


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#21 Griff9of13

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 09:41 AM

If it rains do you blame the Blair government John? Is there anything bad that isn't the Blair government's fault? IMO where the Blair goverment were at fault was that they allowed the "casino" finance industry to carry on exactly as it had done under Thatcher and Major since 1986. They believed wrongly that the market had all the answers. Cameron and Osborne (before the crash) were calling for even less regulation. Cameron has some neck to say that Labour were in charge of the casino when it went bust. The casino was created by " big bang" under Thatcher. The Tories are doing what they always do, looking after their own and blaming someone else for any problems.


Every word spot on.
"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

#22 gingerjon

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 09:43 AM

Every word spot on.


If you believe that a government that had thirteen years with huge working majorities must be absolved of blame entirely then, yes.

If you believe that actually YEAH-BOO politicking belongs only in the kindergarten or House of Commons (but I repeat myself) then, no.
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#23 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 09:54 AM

Had the previous "government" :lol: indulged in proper regulation, and had they made an example of Northern Rock, and had not millions of greedy Labour voters fallen for the great Blair deception, this situation would not have been anywhere near as bad. When Brown said he'd abolished "boom and bust" he was basing it on the effects of the housing price bubble that the Blair govt had created and exploited. How could any sensible person not see that a trebling of house prices in the ten years after Labours election was anything other than a recipe for disaster Yes, bankers may be greedy, but just as greedy as those that borrowed recklessly at the expense of savers and pensioners, the unemployed and those in social housing so that they could get their own feet in the trough. What is it they sing at the Labour Party conference? Ah, yes, "The working class can kiss my ######, we'll keep the red flag flying here!"


I think that's very true
in many ways but not all it was 'meet the new boss same as the old boss' and people felt betrayed
although to be fair section 28 was repealed and some of the other evils perpetrated by Thatcher were addressed, but that was just window dressing.

Thatcher and Major were radical politicians. They did stuff, stuff that some people thought was great-remember 'The Fishing party'? Lots of other people suffered for it.

Blair was given more power via the electoral system and through successive terms than any other labour government, which many people think was wasted: including conning the country into going to war to hell GW Bush out.
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#24 Wolford6

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 09:54 AM

A few years ago, Dubai attracted a lot of finance houses. Market contracted ... wholesale flight to somewhere else. We must protect the UK financial sector.

With regard to bonuses, it's not just fatcat banking bossses who receive them. Many people on here seem to think that everyone who works in the city has the same lifestyle. Believe me they dont; many many people lower down the ranks rely on their bonus to keep their head above water.


My sister has worked as a trader in the city for about twenty five years and just about everyone in her position gets a minimal salary ... that's to "encourage" individual trading activity to achieve a "London salary" by trading. Those companies who use this method (and it's all the big ones too) will not suddenly double and treble the basic wage.

Yes, she's done fairly well but, with commuting, she does a twelve hour high-pressure day.
She's always had bundles of energy and made money for her employers, which is a good job because most traders of her age are likely to have their firms consider that they are past it. That means turning up on a Monday, not being allowed into work and being given a bin-bag with the contents of your desk. No warning, no notice because you could do naughty things to the computer system or client accounts.

And her family circumstances mean that she can't afford to retire.

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#25 Griff9of13

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:11 AM

If you believe that a government that had thirteen years with huge working majorities must be absolved of blame entirely then, yes.

If you believe that actually YEAH-BOO politicking belongs only in the kindergarten or House of Commons (but I repeat myself) then, no.


Which bits are untrue? Didn't the tories call for less regulation of the banking industry? Wasn't the whole deregulation kicked off by the Thatcher government of the 80s?

That said, Labour themselves did fail to spot that there could be any possible downside to the financial sector situation and therefore did very little to halt or reverse what had been set in motion 10 years previously. The whole county, if not the western world thought we were living in a financial utopia where everyone (who was lucky enough to own property) was getting more and more rich. I don't recall anyone (of any note) standing up and saying it would all end in tears until 2007.

I was working for one of the big banks at the time and in a conversation with my then boss we did think the writing was on the wall having had some insight to the way the banks were working (we were both IT contractors with no banking background and I think therefore we had the detachment and lack of vested interest to see things from a different perspective from those within the 'banking culture'). At that point they were just lending and lending with not a worry about how and if they would get any of it back. The small section I was working for then discovered that what they thought was £1.3m of bad debt was in fact £13m. What had happened was that they were using a method of calculating the bad debt that was wholly designed to show the company in the best possible light and therefore mask the true situation.
"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

#26 Saint Billinge

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:13 AM

Whatever happen under Margaret Thatcher, Labour and the FSA presided over 'light' regulation concerning the banking industry. As for Independent Financial Advisers (and I know there were dodgy ones), the heavy-handed regulation dished out was mind-blowing: it certainly put me out of business after 26 years. The costs shot through the roof. Furthermore, I did read somewhere that the fines on the banks went to reducing their regulatory fees! Mine shot up from £500 to £5,000 annually.

I also remember a head of the FSA resigning her position after two years because she disagreed with Labour' policy, but then sailed off into the sunset with a payoff of £250,000 - and that was some years ago. I receive many emails from IFAs who are calling it a day.

#27 Griff9of13

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:18 AM

If you fancy a good read about the whole banking collapse thing, without it being too dull and taxing try reading Meltdown by Ben Elton. He draws some pretty good conclusions.
"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

#28 gingerjon

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:22 AM

That said, Labour themselves did fail to spot


I stopped reading here. You might have said something good after this but "fail to spot" is weasel words for a government that further reduced regulation, legislated to encourage speculative banking, built up unsustainable debt and whose failure to realise that bubbles burst led directly to the (ahem) difficulties specific to this country since 2008.

I don't much care what the opposition at the time were calling for.
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#29 Griff9of13

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:40 AM

I don't much care what the opposition at the time were calling for.


But don't you think it is a bit rich of them to now say to the then government 'you should have regulated more' when at the time they themselves were calling for less regulation?
"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

#30 gingerjon

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:41 AM

But don't you think it is a bit rich of them to now say to the then government 'you should have regulated more' when at the time they themselves were calling for less regulation?


It's a bit rich - it's also irrelevant as to Labour's culpability.
Cheer up, RL is actually rather good
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#31 Wolford6

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:43 AM

Miliband = Blair without the ugly wife.

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#32 Griff9of13

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:43 AM

It's a bit rich - it's also irrelevant as to Labour's culpability.


I'm not trying to defend labour's culpability but rather attack the tories credibility.
"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

#33 Steve May

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:51 AM

I think that's very true
in many ways but not all it was 'meet the new boss same as the old boss' and people felt betrayed
although to be fair section 28 was repealed and some of the other evils perpetrated by Thatcher were addressed, but that was just window dressing.

Thatcher and Major were radical politicians. They did stuff, stuff that some people thought was great-remember 'The Fishing party'? Lots of other people suffered for it.

Blair was given more power via the electoral system and through successive terms than any other labour government, which many people think was wasted: including conning the country into going to war to hell GW Bush out.


Although I think Blair was rather a cowardly politician who could have done more with the mandate he had, I think it needs to be said that he was elected to bring about "Thatcherism with a smiling face". 1997 wasn't 1945 or 1979. The country really wasn't looking for a grand new settlement, it was looking for more of the same but nicer.

That's me.  I'm done.


#34 Steve May

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:54 AM

That said, Labour themselves did fail to spot that there could be any possible downside to the financial sector situation and therefore did very little to halt or reverse what had been set in motion 10 years previously. The whole county, if not the western world thought we were living in a financial utopia where everyone (who was lucky enough to own property) was getting more and more rich. I don't recall anyone (of any note) standing up and saying it would all end in tears until 2007.


What would have been the political effect of saying that stuff in the run up to the 2005 election? What kind of electoral message is "I know it looks like we're all having a good time, but we really have to stop now" have been? A pretty disastrous one I think.

It's a tricky business, politics.

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#35 gingerjon

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:55 AM

It's a tricky business, politics.


You're trying to get selected for something aren't you?

Very on-message at the minute.
Cheer up, RL is actually rather good
- Severus, July 2012

#36 Wolford6

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:58 AM

You're trying to get selected for something aren't you?

Very on-message at the minute.


Steve certainly couldn't do any worse than the muppets they've got already. Yvonne Cooper was on ITV Daybreak this morning ... all false smile and cringeworthying for England.

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#37 Griff9of13

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 11:01 AM

Steve certainly couldn't do any worse than the muppets they've got already. Yvonne Cooper was on ITV Daybreak this morning ... all false smile and cringeworthying for England.


Who's she? Your description of her makes her sound like Yvette Cooper. :rolleyes:
"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

#38 Wolford6

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 11:04 AM

:blush:

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#39 Steve May

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 11:05 AM

You're trying to get selected for something aren't you?

Very on-message at the minute.


I have a wife who is being Goved into an Academy. I'm not on message, I'm ###### livid.

That's me.  I'm done.


#40 gingerjon

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 11:10 AM

I have a wife who is being Goved into an Academy. I'm not on message, I'm ###### livid.


Ah. I can understand that.

I'll not poke you by reminding you which administration "failed to spot" that academies might not be a good idea.
Cheer up, RL is actually rather good
- Severus, July 2012




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