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Dual Reg U-Turn


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#21 shun

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 10:24 PM

without a doubt the biggest pile of rancid dogs faeces i've seen written on here. if barrow get relegated it'll be an absolute disaster fir the club and in my opinion will be the start of the end of professional rugby in the town.
You,barrowraiderskid are mental!

so you are saying that if barrow get relegated this season, there will be no barrow raiders next year???

#22 off the wall

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 10:29 PM

sounds like same ambitions of barrow soccer. lets go down a division, cut out all the long travelling for the fans and everything is hunky dory.sorry but i dont think so. every player who plays at present for the raiders wants to be playing at the highest level and winning games.alright at present it aint happening for us but the mere thought of relegation for the club will put us back 20 years at craven park. look at whats happened to oldham. not long ago a top division team playing a high standard . now a sh..t hole of a ground and playing in a league that they realy shouldnt be in. last 5 seasons a cp have been spot on . a few lows but plenty of highs.

#23 RSN

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:13 PM

without a doubt the biggest pile of rancid dogs faeces i've seen written on here. if barrow get relegated it'll be an absolute disaster fir the club and in my opinion will be the start of the end of professional rugby in the town.
You,barrowraiderskid are mental!


Right please argue the points made.

First point made we'd go straight back up with a whole south cumbrian based side. Lets say a disaster happens and Harrison goes. The only players who played last year who weren't based in South Cumbria were Dandy, Ballard, Bracek, Brennan, Duffy I may of missed another one and I think I have feel free to correct me but thats it. Have you seen how much the standard of the league has dropped since then? It's basically ameteur division we'd coast the league. The likes of Gordon and Nicholson who are currently playing ameteur would get into any side in the league. If you don't think we'd win the league then you lack alot of confidence. I think if we did get relegated Darren would have more than enough confidence to select a entire South Cumbrian side and still win the league.

Then about the away fans last year. Only Town and Haven brought three figures last year, everyone else brought minimal and you could probably count them from a hospitality box in the main stand. So we arn't going to lose massive amounts on away support in comparision to last year, obviously we won't have the likes of Featherstone and Fax coming to town but we won't be missing much in away support from last year.

We wouldn't have to pay out much on wages. There wouldn't be any travelling costs as we could have a whole local squad. We can't pay more than 150k on wages anyways and we wouldn't have to spend any more regardless to win the league, the quality of the league is abysmal. It appears in the Championship we will have to pay full 300k to compete and recruit exceptionally well something we haven't done this year if you face reality. With the top of the Championship very strong and the weaker sides now SL reserve teams the competition is much more fierce and something I don't think we were prepared for.

Then I made a point about the crowds. I'm going to bring the Soccer into this as I feel it's relevant. Barrow is a working class town, so with a tight budget the majority of people will only go watch a winning side. If they're losing they don't attend. It's a fact, the Soccer they get promotion and win games they get 3k first game and get many a game 2k and it all appears good. They lose momentum regularly lose games as seasons go by a bang you're back down to 700 fans in a matter of years. It's the same with the rugby. I made the point in pre season that the crowds would go up on the back of the promotion but I think it was Soss pointed out rightly that crowds will go down if we lose so don't budget to gain on the back of last seasons gates as we were winning. (We didn't lose at Craven Park last year) I know the first two gates arn't much to go by due to horrid weather and a freezing thursday night but gates already seem down on last year. They may get better as the weather improves but if results don't we wont get much higher.

Right Barrow have a huge debt to pay off yes that is unfortunately hanging over us but we own our own ground. That is vital. The club has a huge asset. Look at Bradford, they lose the ground and they're on the brink of collapse. We have a great board, incredibly loyal, hard working and committed volunteers, a very well run lottery scheme and a very loyal set of core fans who will turn upto games through thick and thin. To me that sounds sustainable. Right we get relegated, you say the club is going to collapse in a year, seriously? We'd breeze through promotion back to CC1. I've looked at the squad lists and I don't recognise anybody in them. They're ameteurs who arn't better than the majority we have playing for what we have round here.

Obviously I don't have details to the clubs finances and there will be people on here who know much more than me about them, but I fail to see where this huge collapse you seem to be implying will happen. All the points I made seem to point towards BRLFC having a better chance of surviving than alot of other clubs.

I can accept disagreeing with my post but can you at least take the time to show me why you disagree. Just calling it **** doesn't help anything. I feel the points I made are fair but don't call me mental if you won't take the time out to debate what I said.

Edited by barrowraiderskid, 08 March 2013 - 11:14 PM.


#24 RSN

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:24 PM

sounds like same ambitions of barrow soccer. lets go down a division, cut out all the long travelling for the fans and everything is hunky dory.sorry but i dont think so. every player who plays at present for the raiders wants to be playing at the highest level and winning games.alright at present it aint happening for us but the mere thought of relegation for the club will put us back 20 years at craven park. look at whats happened to oldham. not long ago a top division team playing a high standard . now a sh..t hole of a ground and playing in a league that they realy shouldnt be in. last 5 seasons a cp have been spot on . a few lows but plenty of highs.


Oldham is different to ourselves. They don't have any ameteurs to chose from apart from Saddleworth. So therefore they're going to struggle to pick a local side therefore have to pick players from where ever they can find them. Then they have huge soccer clubs around the area aswell as other SL clubs. Where are Oldham meant to get their fan base from, they've got huge sports clubs surrounding them and they are taking their fans. What other sports team are the people of Barrow going to watch apart from Barrow RL or Soccer? There isn't one.

I don't think people realise how lucky we are to have the likes of Roose, Barrow Island, Hindpool ect ect around to try and get people playing the game and trying to field sides, it all helps Barrow. It makes us have a decent selection of players to choose from which are good enough to compete in CC1. Oldham do not have this luxury. Neither do the majority of clubs in the division. Also having no one to steal our fans helps too.

#25 off the wall

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:00 AM

your right to have your opinion but if we go down to ch 1 we will be lucky to have 500 fans at home games and even less who go away. with the amount of amature clubs round here and sky sports on every week with a game on thur fri sat and sun i think we would struggle to get the best local lads to turn up and put a shirt on for the raiders.

#26 shaun mc

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 08:08 AM

There are plenty of Widnes players who now need game time who would be suitable for a loan deal?

Go on, dare you........ :P

#27 Walney Bill

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 08:41 AM

sounds like same ambitions of barrow soccer. lets go down a division, cut out all the long travelling for the fans and everything is hunky dory.sorry but i dont think so. every player who plays at present for the raiders wants to be playing at the highest level and winning games.alright at present it aint happening for us but the mere thought of relegation for the club will put us back 20 years at craven park. look at whats happened to oldham. not long ago a top division team playing a high standard . now a sh..t hole of a ground and playing in a league that they realy shouldnt be in. last 5 seasons a cp have been spot on . a few lows but plenty of highs.


I wasn't at the game as I am at work (abroad) but reading "Holt set to wield Barrow Raiders Axe" on the online Evening Mail site it would suggest differently.
I refer to the second para where he says there was a lack of fight, effort and application.

#28 Keith Nutter

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 08:42 AM

At this moment in time DR isn't gonna happen at Barrow - end of. Obviously we can never say never to anything but the current system is too much of a joke to be honest.

Some clubs in Championship and Championship 1 are now trying to offload (on loan) some of their fringe players who are missing out on matches because DR players are ousting them. At least three clubs are doing this because of "unrest" among their own lads.

I am also getting whispers that one "partnership" is near to collapse this week because of the influence the SL club is trying to exert on the Championship club. For some reason it hasn't yet become public knowledge but trust me it has happened.

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#29 holty

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 02:17 PM

Having thought about this for quite some time I can see no reason why myself and the club need to be anything other than open and transparent upon the Dual reg scenario with the supporters. I would be more than happy to have an open forum where all questions could be put forward and duly answered. For the sake of clarity, the club are not currently looking to go down this Dual reg route for any number of reasons but be clear that discussions have taken place with a number of SL clubs and all considerations taken into account before this decision has been reached.

From a personal view point, I see this new dual reg system as being flawed on nearly all levels except for the utilisation of young SL squad members to cover injuries during the season giving them some valuble game time whilst helping the championship club also, the very reason for which it was introduced. I continuously read and listen to peoples opinions regarding this subject claiming that Barrow are at some great disadvantage for not utilising it but on what are these opinihons based??? Mike Sunderland has posted on this thread giving his opinion that we have to go down the dual reg route, which is an opinion to which he and everyone else is entitled. To that , I would say where is the evidence of this great advantage clubs have??...............if you look at the current league table, all be it it is early days, teams such as Swinton, Keighley, York and others already utilise it but it seems that dual reg is not the miracle cure that Mike and others profess it to be. I watched the Featherstone/ Keighley game on Thursday where Keighley utilised 3-4 dual reg players, some SL regulars, and still lost comprehensively. We played against Doncaster earlier in the season who used 3-4 dual reg players but IMO we played well enough to win. Swinton, who in my opinion have utilised this option in the wrong way, currently have almost an entire squad of warrington youngsters supplemented with senior players intermittently(Chris Bridge, Paul Wood) but are struggling and have won only one game............is just doesn't stack up.

Having said that, we have still considered the option and having been told the expected arrangements and proposals that accompany it have been left with no option but to refrain from utilising it. However, other routes and options such as loan agreements and further signings are being explored in the aim of strengthening the squad as we are currently struggling in certain areas for consistency and performance. It is a long season and the coaching staff have a belief in our squad but if we can strengthen we certainly will as and where neceessary.

There is no such thing as a quick fix I am afraid, recent history has certainly taught us that, but Dual reg doesn't even qualify as that. I understand many people will not agree but this is the opinion of the club as a whole and we will continue to work hard and fight to get to where we want to be going forward. The real problem at the moment is closer to home and getting the best out of our current squad week in week out, and I'm confident we will get there. The influx of returning players and some further players will hopefully keep everyone on their toes and push us on to reach our full potential and get the season started. As supporters, you all have right to want the team to perform and do well and we will do everything in our power to ensure this happens going forward.

All the best.

#30 RAIDERSRUS

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 03:41 PM

Well said Holty, talking sense as usual. I'm not a fan of the dual reg set up the way it's being used at the moment, getting players one week then not the next. Getting players on loan is different altogether when you can get them for a month to cover injuries etc....

#31 lifer

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 03:46 PM

Well said and well done to barrow for this stance. Let the season recommense on sunday...

#32 bangbang

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 04:25 PM

Finch at 6 please Holty
Rip the bludgers heads off!

#33 soss

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 04:55 PM

Holty maybe I didn't express my opinion clear enough..so I will try again

I am not an advocate of the new system...

The new DR system may be our only option if you are wanting to bring in players on DR as it supersedes the old system. So if, as you have stated in the evening mail we are looking at all options and we are to bring in additional players it would have to be through this method would it not?

I'm no fan of the system and after reading your comments I get the impression the new system is something the majority of super league clubs are wanting. This is an assumption on my part but it has been a directive from the RFL.

As I stated in my last post I know whatever decision you and the board make it would be for the benefit of the club. I just feel that the statements and agreements announced in the press have limited our options should we need them.

Edited by soss, 09 March 2013 - 05:15 PM.

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#34 morty

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 05:20 PM

Barrowraiderskid... I understand what you are saying about being relegated but we would be in exactly the same situation the season after regarding not being good enough yet again for the Championship ? We will become the proverbial yo yo side which again is no good to us.

We really need to stay up no matter what !

Lee

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Raiders have risen from the ashes


#35 Keith T

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 05:36 PM

Holty maybe I didn't express my opinion clear enough..so I will try again

I am not an advocate of the new system...

The new DR system may be our only option if you are wanting to bring in players on DR as it supersedes the old system. So if, as you have stated in the evening mail we are looking at all options and we are to bring in additional players it would have to be through this method would it not?

I'm no fan of the system and after reading your comments I get the impression the new system is something the majority of super league clubs are wanting. This is an assumption on my part but it has been a directive from the RFL.

As I stated in my last post I know whatever decision you and the board make it would be for the benefit of the club. I just feel that the statements and agreements announced in the press have limited our options should we need them.


You can only use dual registration if your club is in a genuine partnership with a SL club. Clubs that are not in a partnership can still loan players from SL clubs for a minimum of 1 month.

I think the problem with loans could be that SL clubs in partnerships may not want to loan their players to another club other than their partnered club or else they could end up with their players playing against each other for different clubs.

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#36 soss

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 05:54 PM

You can only use dual registration if your club is in a genuine partnership with a SL club. Clubs that are not in a partnership can still loan players from SL clubs for a minimum of 1 month.

I think the problem with loans could be that SL clubs in partnerships may not want to loan their players to another club other than their partnered club or else they could end up with their players playing against each other for different clubs.

My point exactly..with barrow refusing to join with a super league club our options are very limited IF we ever want to utilise a DR player.

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#37 livo

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 07:15 PM

Going back to what keith said. The dual reg system wont work. From what he said, its a good job we didnt. As for players on loan, i dont know the ins and outs, but if we have a massive debt to deal with, i.e. the lights, maybe we cant even go down that route.
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#38 alba

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 07:36 PM

I think the cleverer DR clubs have kept their squads small, and at the moment don't need their DR players but will use them if injuries warrent it, this enables them to spend a bit more on top class players.

#39 alba

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 07:41 PM

It would be interesting to know what the various squad sizes are if the DR players are not included.

#40 Keith T

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 08:09 PM

It would be interesting to know what the various squad sizes are if the DR players are not included.


At the start of the season the smallest squad was Swinton with 17 players but then before the 1st match they signed 6 from Warrington taking their squad to 23. The next smallest was Doncaster with 22, then Leigh and Town with 23 (but we've just signed another player). Most clubs had 25 - Batley, Dewsbury, Halifax, Haven. Barrow had 26 as did Fev, Sheffield and Hunslet had 29 and Keighley 33.

Those figures were those printed in the RL Express before the first league fixtures and do not include DR or loan players.

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.





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