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Two tier SL on the way


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#661 superten

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 10:52 AM

Like I've said London are skint and where would you get this other London team from who could finance SL?

would have to see what the tv deal could be worth if each club were to get 2m a season it would be self funding
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#662 thundergaz

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 10:54 AM

would have to see what the tv deal could be worth if each club were to get 2m a season it would be self funding


Give up while your ahead mate. Isn't SL self funding now? And look at the financial trouble were having at the minute.Also can you honestly see SKY funding 2m a club if they have to finance a 2nd tier as well?

Edited by thundergaz, 25 March 2013 - 10:59 AM.


#663 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 11:20 AM

Angelo I personally see SL after 5 games into the season as a friendly comp for at least 4 clubs in SL. I personally find watching SL boring unless the big 5 are playing each other. There is too many blow outs in SL and too many boring games. For these 4 clubs in question I can see why they are struggling because why would new fans want to go and watch any of these teams when they play at least 15 friendlies a season? I personally think having no P&R gives the comp less attraction just my opinion though of course.Also you keep referring to Fev fans not wanting etc and yes they probably don't but I want the best for my team and i do believe P&R isn't the best thing for my team no matter what other Fev fans think.


but you have said it's no good if a club can't afford p and r. that's how the yo yo syndrome was so pernicious.

the much vaunted relegation and promotion battles that apparently filled stadiums(including POR) are myth.
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#664 thundergaz

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 11:30 AM

but you have said it's no good if a club can't afford p and r. that's how the yo yo syndrome was so pernicious.

the much vaunted relegation and promotion battles that apparently filled stadiums(including POR) are myth.

.

I agree angelo but I think a sport needs P&R to attract outside interest In our game. But I also acknowledge that to introduce it they as to be a safer way than there previously was.

#665 DeadShotKeen

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 12:58 PM

Angelo I personally see SL after 5 games into the season as a friendly comp for at least 4 clubs in SL. I personally find watching SL boring unless the big 5 are playing each other. There is too many blow outs in SL and too many boring games. For these 4 clubs in question I can see why they are struggling because why would new fans want to go and watch any of these teams when they play at least 15 friendlies a season? I personally think having no P&R gives the comp less attraction just my opinion though of course.Also you keep referring to Fev fans not wanting etc and yes they probably don't but I want the best for my team and i do believe P&R isn't the best thing for my team no matter what other Fev fans think.


This is profoundly contradictory. You can't say that you want the top 4 or 5 sides pegging back and then at the same time campaign for P&R.

A scenario: Poorly performing side develop sensational young player. Top 4 or 5 sides court said young player. With franchising, the poor side have the financial stability to offer him a good deal and the player has less need to jump ship (there's a good chance they have more cap space as well). The grass isn't always greener and who's to say that in a season's time his own side won't swap places with 1 or more of those sides courting him? It isn't a done deal that the poor side keep him by any means but it's a contest and based on several factors, none of which involve hierarchy. Take Kris Welham or Rangi Chase as your recent reference points.

Add P&R to the equation and the poor side can forget about keeping him. Take any non-elite EPL side (even big sides like Everton, Villa, Newcastle etc.) as your reference point. The club don't have the financial stability to match the bigger sides' wages (even if there's a cap) and the player worries about slipping down a tier. This is exactly the elite side player stacking that causes the blowouts you hate. Do you really not see this?

Kindly explain to me how P&R brings the rest of the pack closer to the big 4 or 5 sides.

Either we want a competitive & exclusive or a hierarchical & inclusive SL. There is no competitive and inclusive model for professional sport. Pick your poison.

#666 thundergaz

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 01:08 PM

This is profoundly contradictory. You can't say that you want the top 4 or 5 sides pegging back and then at the same time campaign for P&R.

A scenario: Poorly performing side develop sensational young player. Top 4 or 5 sides court said young player. With franchising, the poor side have the financial stability to offer him a good deal and the player has less need to jump ship (there's a good chance they have more cap space as well). The grass isn't always greener and who's to say that in a season's time his own side won't swap places with 1 or more of those sides courting him? It isn't a done deal that the poor side keep him by any means but it's a contest and based on several factors, none of which involve hierarchy. Take Kris Welham or Rangi Chase as your recent reference points.

Add P&R to the equation and the poor side can forget about keeping him. Take any non-elite EPL side (even big sides like Everton, Villa, Newcastle etc.) as your reference point. The club don't have the financial stability to match the bigger sides' wages (even if there's a cap) and the player worries about slipping down a tier. This is exactly the elite side player stacking that causes the blowouts you hate. Do you really not see this?

Kindly explain to me how P&R brings the rest of the pack closer to the big 4 or 5 sides.

Either we want a competitive & exclusive or a hierarchical & inclusive SL. There is no competitive and inclusive model for professional sport. Pick your poison.


No matter what you do the top 5 teams will always be the top 5 teams. Ever since I started watching RL the saints.leeds.and wigans of our game have always been the top dogs. Wire have always been a big team just not as big as they are now. As the salary cap and no P&R closed this gap? I personally don't think it as it as just stopped the wigans of this world winning everything in sight like they used to. The small clubs are still the small clubs.

#667 The Parksider

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 01:24 PM

No matter what you do the top 5 teams will always be the top 5 teams. Ever since I started watching RL the saints.leeds.and wigans of our game have always been the top dogs. Wire have always been a big team just not as big as they are now.


Fairs fair. Bradford blew everyone away for some years and Hull made it to the top as well. Huddersfield are nearly a top side now.

What price one side in Calder or Salford being up there in say 7 or 8 years time.

That'll be ten big clubs over 25 years.

Catalans can compete too....

Toulouse say they'll have big money?

Ooooh I wonder if this is SL 2015-2018??

#668 thundergaz

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 01:27 PM

Fairs fair. Bradford blew everyone away for some years and Hull made it to the top as well. Huddersfield are nearly a top side now.

What price one side in Calder or Salford being up there in say 7 or 8 years time.

That'll be ten big clubs over 25 years.

Catalans can compete too....

Toulouse say they'll have big money?

Ooooh I wonder if this is SL 2015-2018??


Toulouse couldn't even hack it in the champ. Also the clubs you mention I agree but they never stay at the top like Wigan .saints and Leeds have done. It's just a few years in the sun.

#669 The Parksider

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 01:42 PM

Toulouse couldn't even hack it in the champ. Also the clubs you mention I agree but they never stay at the top like Wigan .saints and Leeds have done. It's just a few years in the sun.


Toulouse had no money. Yes your right about those three always been up there. However there's reasons for it that still haven't been fixed and still can be, it may take a reduction to 12 or 10 in SL.

#670 thundergaz

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:10 PM

Toulouse had no money. Yes your right about those three always been up there. However there's reasons for it that still haven't been fixed and still can be, it may take a reduction to 12 or 10 in SL.


I agree with all that parky. But what I will say is if Toulouse get into SL at the expense of a champ club that will be me done with the sport. Enough will have been enough as far as I'm concerned.

Edited by thundergaz, 25 March 2013 - 02:11 PM.


#671 deluded pom?

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:21 PM

Toulouse couldn't even hack it in the champ. Also the clubs you mention I agree but they never stay at the top like Wigan .saints and Leeds have done. It's just a few years in the sun.

Leeds were a team that always flattered to deceive, until the last ten years, when I first started watching the game circa mid 70s. An odd trophy here and there. Ask Garry Schofield how full his domestic trophy cabinet is from his Leeds days. IIRC it's stuffed full of one Yorkshire Cup winner's medal. I am willing to be corrected on that but it won't be many more medals.

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#672 thundergaz

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:26 PM

Leeds were a team that always flattered to deceive, until the last ten years, when I first started watching the game circa mid 70s. An odd trophy here and there. Ask Garry Schofield how full his domestic trophy cabinet is from his Leeds days. IIRC it's stuffed full of one Yorkshire Cup winner's medal. I am willing to be corrected on that but it won't be many more medals.


I miss them days that's when RL was good IMO. The hanleys. Edwards. Schofields. Gregory's etc of the game it was brilliant. Those guys were amazing along with a lot more back then. I would watch RL back then week in week out now if they made it summer rugby. Can you imagine the skill these guys would of produced in dry conditions that would of been fantastic to watch.

#673 Dave T

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:35 PM

I miss them days that's when RL was good IMO. The hanleys. Edwards. Schofields. Gregory's etc of the game it was brilliant. Those guys were amazing along with a lot more back then. I would watch RL back then week in week out now if they made it summer rugby. Can you imagine the skill these guys would of produced in dry conditions that would of been fantastic to watch.

Nostalgia is a funny thing. People often seem to yearn for days gone by.

I remember having this debate a while back on a Warrington forum, where people often talk about our great teams of the late 80's with the likes of Johnson, Drummond, Woods, Boyd, Tamati, Gregory, Jackson etc. and ignore the fact that this team did very little and often finished comfortably in the lower half of the table.

#674 thundergaz

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:40 PM

Nostalgia is a funny thing. People often seem to yearn for days gone by.

I remember having this debate a while back on a Warrington forum, where people often talk about our great teams of the late 80's with the likes of Johnson, Drummond, Woods, Boyd, Tamati, Gregory, Jackson etc. and ignore the fact that this team did very little and often finished comfortably in the lower half of the table.


That's because I think there was that many good players to pick from back then compared to today. I also think the youth passage was a lot easier too than today.

#675 deluded pom?

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:41 PM

Nostalgia is a funny thing. People often seem to yearn for days gone by.

I remember having this debate a while back on a Warrington forum, where people often talk about our great teams of the late 80's with the likes of Johnson, Drummond, Woods, Boyd, Tamati, Gregory, Jackson etc. and ignore the fact that this team did very little and often finished comfortably in the lower half of the table.

As I said above Dave. Leeds rarely won much even with the sort of players gaz mentioned.

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#676 thundergaz

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:42 PM

As I said above Dave. Leeds rarely won much even with the sort of players gaz mentioned.


Yes but that wasn't because they weren't greats of our game its because Wigan had the money and just got better greats to join them that's all.

#677 deluded pom?

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:43 PM

Yes but that wasn't because they weren't greats of our game its because Wigan had the money and just got better greats to join them that's all.

And that takes us back to what will happen without a salary cap. It might not be Wigan but it won't be any surprise that one club has more money to spend than the others.

Edited by deluded pom?, 25 March 2013 - 02:44 PM.

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#678 thundergaz

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:45 PM

And that takes us back to what will happen without a salary cap.


I never once said I was in favour of the open salary cap. I just said the players were greats and always will be. How many of today's stars will be remembered in 20 years time?

#679 deluded pom?

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:47 PM

I never once said I was in favour of the open salary cap. I just said the players were greats and always will be. How many of today's stars will be remembered in 20 years time?

Sorry gaz I'm confusing threads. I'll let you know in twenty years time.

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#680 The Parksider

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:51 PM

If Toulouse get into SL at the expense of a champ club that will be me done with the sport.


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