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Two tier SL on the way


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#121 superten

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 04:52 PM

Been saying it for years a ten team super league. We may be able to stretch to twelve . Twelve would fit better if a break away. One league of twelve playing each other home and away for 22 rounds with top six play offs. Then have there own cup comp instead of challenge cup with four pools of three in group stage , possibly if france gets there super league of 8 up and running add them to the cup comp giving us four pools of five with 3 english teams and two french in each pool . But for now lets look at english league .Four pools of three each playing one home and one away game in pool matches . Top two in each pool make quarter finals. Keep England v Exiles match and add the tribes ( best of scotland, ireland and wales players ) to make a round robin comp . Make them double headers with players under international level playing in a county comp. IE England v The Exiles, lancashire v The Tribes played at wigan, England v The Tribes yorkshire v The Exiles at Hull and The Tribes v The Exiles Yorkshire v Lancashire at Huddersfield.
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#122 Ant

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 04:58 PM

Dumbest idea ever

Has no one pointed our its pretty much the system we used to have that failed so spectacularly over and over again?

#123 deluded pom?

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 05:01 PM

Nice question, my view (that is not a fact but is a humble opinion based on reading all I can that's said by the power brokers and looking at all the information published) is that Leeds, Wigan, Wire and Saints rule the roost. After that Huddersfield are consistently heavily funded and Hull and Catalans also seem to make up the "handful". Bradford weren't saved for nothing and Toulouse were courted and spouting just how rich they would be in SL.

In terms of who can't afford to be in Superleague, I think (not as a fact but as a humble opinion based on reading all I can that's said by the power brokers and looking at all the information published)all you need to do is look at the Championship.



What about the current SL teams outside of the ones you name? Where do they stand in the rankings? Would they be simply dropped down to the graveyard you describe?

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#124 The Parksider

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 05:07 PM

Once in SL, how many Dr Koukash's or Glovers, or Davys are out there who might fancy funding or, at least , assisting with funding, of a SL team


You mean a second tier club?

Well Hudgell did it i suppose but then found it a bit rich. O'Connor did it and the jury is out.

Your basing the future of this proposed project on unidentified foreign players and unknown rich investors coming over the horizon.

You lost your grip on reality again?

Edited by The Parksider, 12 March 2013 - 05:08 PM.


#125 The Parksider

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 05:19 PM

What about the current SL teams outside of the ones you name? Where do they stand in the rankings? Would they be simply dropped down to the graveyard you describe?


I dunno it's all speculation but there has been strong speculation on here this is about shifting certain clubs down a peg and out of the way.

I fear for HKR if they are one, because Hull will continue to pick off their best players.

I fear for one or two of Cas, Fev or Wakefield. Similarly if only one is in the SL1 they will raid the others for their best players.

They will all survive as clubs IF they get SKY funding in the second tier.

But what good is money if there aren't the players to buy.

To me it will secure second tier clubs but will only recreate the old system where the promoted club was either a top tier club boucing back up straight away or a club on a hiding to nothing like Leigh. HKR got round this with Australians, that's not there any more.

#126 chuffer

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 05:24 PM

But what good is money if there aren't the players to buy.


We have a thriving youth and amateur scene to draw from......isn't that the whole point of developing and nurturing grass roots rugby?

#127 Terry Mullaney

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 05:28 PM

1. Gatcliffe
2. Two tier SL on the way or Two tier SL on the way?
3. See image.

Posted Image

Well slap my wrist for adding an e to Gatcliffe and forgetting to end the name of the thread with a ? Pathetic but oh so typical. As for point three, the house of cards has already started to collapse if you hadn't noticed

Edited by Terry Mullaney, 12 March 2013 - 05:38 PM.

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#128 goldcoaster

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 06:13 PM

The current system (14 team licensing) may have its critics, but it needs to be given more time. Already there is proof it is yielding positive results.

I remember when I started following the English game a decade ago, there was only 4 decent teams (Leeds, Wigan, St Helen's and Bradford). Almost all team played in front of poor crowds in ramshackle stadiums and the other 8 teams were constantly tonked by the big 4. Teams were overflowing with 2nd rate imports, and youth development was virtually non-existant.

Since licensing, we have seen nearly all teams either have new stadia, or are in the process of building them. Crowds are up across the board, youth development is getting better and better with some brilliant young players coming through, and in greater numbers. There are less imports playing in h SL, which is giving greater first team opportunities to young Brits.

Most importantly though, the competition is becoming more even, with the big 4 concept no longer a factor. I would say there is presently a big 8, with 4 more clubs developing at a rate where they will be up with the best in a few more years. Yes, you still get the odd thrashing like Hull v Cas on Friday, but for the large part, the ESL is unpredictable and anyone can win on their day. I also believe most teams are capable of winning silverware in the next few years.

Yes, when you compare the ESL's financial outlook to the NRL, it seems poor in comparison, however the NRL is a massive game down under, with attention and media coverage the equivalent of the EPL in the UK. But as a competition on its own, the ESL is damn good, and much better than it was under P&R. IMO, going back to P&R would be a massive ste backwards.

Give the current set-up more time and it will yield further positive results and get better and better.

Edited by goldcoaster, 12 March 2013 - 06:15 PM.

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#129 deluded pom?

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 06:19 PM

I think you lost something across the miles goldcoaster because that doesn't sound exactly like the SL I know.

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#130 Methven Hornet

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 07:05 PM

The current system (14 team licensing) may have its critics, but it needs to be given more time. Already there is proof it is yielding positive results.

I remember when I started following the English game a decade ago, there was only 4 decent teams (Leeds, Wigan, St Helen's and Bradford). Almost all team played in front of poor crowds in ramshackle stadiums and the other 8 teams were constantly tonked by the big 4. Teams were overflowing with 2nd rate imports, and youth development was virtually non-existant.

Since licensing, we have seen nearly all teams either have new stadia, or are in the process of building them. Crowds are up across the board, youth development is getting better and better with some brilliant young players coming through, and in greater numbers. There are less imports playing in h SL, which is giving greater first team opportunities to young Brits.

Most importantly though, the competition is becoming more even, with the big 4 concept no longer a factor. I would say there is presently a big 8, with 4 more clubs developing at a rate where they will be up with the best in a few more years. Yes, you still get the odd thrashing like Hull v Cas on Friday, but for the large part, the ESL is unpredictable and anyone can win on their day. I also believe most teams are capable of winning silverware in the next few years.

Yes, when you compare the ESL's financial outlook to the NRL, it seems poor in comparison, however the NRL is a massive game down under, with attention and media coverage the equivalent of the EPL in the UK. But as a competition on its own, the ESL is damn good, and much better than it was under P&R. IMO, going back to P&R would be a massive ste backwards.

Give the current set-up more time and it will yield further positive results and get better and better.


Increasing the numbers to 14, partly to include an expansion club from Wales, was probably unsustainable in the long term. I seem to remember Nigel Wood admitting as much at the time, saying that a full-time league of that size needed new sources of players from outside of the traditional heartlands (and that meant Wales at the time).

With the Crusaders having left, that 2 club expansion in numbers was effectively from the same concentration of clubs in the north that has always made up the game in Britain - at the worse time possible in terms of the economic environment.
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#131 hindle xiii

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 07:06 PM

I think you lost something across the miles goldcoaster because that doesn't sound exactly like the SL I know.

Who's widdled on your snowman tonight?!

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#132 deluded pom?

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 07:08 PM

Who's widdled on your snowman tonight?!


Does gc's description of SL seem accurate to you aitch? Some is but some isn't.

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#133 hindle xiii

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 07:13 PM

Does gc's description of SL seem accurate to you aitch? Some is but some isn't.

It's a fair assessment, it's a remedy if you like for those who see only the bad in the current set-up, not that I'm pointing the finger. It's not great but it's not bab anyway!

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#134 goldcoaster

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 07:23 PM

It's a fair assessment, it's a remedy if you like for those who see only the bad in the current set-up, not that I'm pointing the finger. It's not great but it's not bab anyway!


I think there is too much doom and gloom about SL. Sure, it isn't the NRL, but we've already covered the enormous advantages the NRL has in its favour. Add to that England is recovering from recession, Australia never had the recession. So when you consider these factors, SL ain't so bad.
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#135 keighley

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 07:27 PM

You mean a second tier club?

Well Hudgell did it i suppose but then found it a bit rich. O'Connor did it and the jury is out.

Your basing the future of this proposed project on unidentified foreign players and unknown rich investors coming over the horizon.

You lost your grip on reality again?


I'm not basing the future on anything. get off your high horse. This is a proposal being floated by an executive with one of the more successful SL clubs, namely, Warrington.

You cannot dismiss unknown investors out of hand. Who knew Glover and Koukash and 2 restaurants Khan were interested in RL 2 years ago.

The new SL clubs will have to make do with the Sky money and current investors to begin with but for you to dismiss the possibility of unknown outside investors being founs is flying in the face of recent SL history

On the player front, you conveniently ignored the part of my post on players fron nw areas of the UK and further use of players curently starring as DR wannabees.and UK heritage Aussies The foreign players was only the fourth part of my suggestions

The trouble with you is that anything progessive which dosn't conform to your blinkered narrow version of SL has ignorant phrases thrown at it like, fantasy land, losing grip on reality etc etc. You have this long standing hatred of anything non SL or possible SL. Get ovet it.

#136 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 08:15 PM

Regression is self defeating. SL might think a 10 team league is a panacea for all the games ills but it is not. In a ten team league the bottom 2 would just replicate the problems of the bottom two in a 14 team league and the repetitive fixtures and lack of variety of teams to appear on TV would result in stagnation and the erosion of viewing figures due to those concerns and the shrnking of the geographical footprint of the game leading to a loss of susbcrbibers for Sky


yes
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#137 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 08:24 PM

Lets agree to disagree, I can't even begin to discuss anything as a serious proposal without some sort of explanation of the obvious problem of funding six more superleague clubs when the game is in a financial mire and there aren't the players to go round.


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#138 1976PMJwires

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 09:06 PM

Basketball is many times bigger than RL. It should be easier for them to get one simply by association. I want a title sponsor too asap. But I don't enjoy matches less because of it.


In the uk??

If so thanks I never knew.

I'm just fearing the worst for some clubs.


What is the bit in bold based on.

You are actually wrong. People are associated with SL, so it clearly has a value. Nobody has come forward prepared to pay what the RFL deem to be the value of SL. Nothing more than that.



Based on we've got nothing for a brand, a major brand in the sky sports portfolio, yet no title sponsor.

6 games into the season means one fifth of the season gone, loss of revenue is never good,add the drop in crowds, how much damage is / could this do on some clubs??

KR , castleford, Wakefield (their main sponsor went bust) Steve O' Connor at widnes has already stated Widnes need bigger gates.


DaveT I'm really worried for the game as a whole.


#139 chuffer

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 09:17 PM

As said before, we're doing as well as can be expected given the current financial climate

#140 The Parksider

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 09:46 PM

Increasing the numbers to 14, partly to include an expansion club from Wales, was probably unsustainable in the long term. I seem to remember Nigel Wood admitting as much at the time, saying that a full-time league of that size needed new sources of players from outside of the traditional heartlands (and that meant Wales at the time).

With the Crusaders having left, that 2 club expansion in numbers was effectively from the same concentration of clubs in the north that has always made up the game in Britain - at the worse time possible in terms of the economic environment.


Well remembered there MH.......

Back to 12 remains odds on?




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