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Falklands sovreignty referendum - shock result


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#21 Bob8

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 02:45 PM

And now we have to watch the Pope & see what side of the coin he comes down on.


Kircher and the Pope did not tick along well when he was a Bishop or a Cardinal. She had to try and cash in on the patriotism of an Argentinian Pope and this was about the only area where she had a chance of aligning herself with him. I do not believe the Pope will come down on the issue at all.

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#22 Martyn Sadler

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 03:12 PM

Kircher and the Pope did not tick along well when he was a Bishop or a Cardinal. She had to try and cash in on the patriotism of an Argentinian Pope and this was about the only area where she had a chance of aligning herself with him. I do not believe the Pope will come down on the issue at all.


I'm not sure about the Pope, but it's the American president I'd be more worried about.

The Americans seem to keep asking us to negotiate with Argentina when there is clearly nothing to negotiate about.

Obama, incidentally, seemed to think the Falklands were called the Maldives at one point.

We have held the Falklands since 1833, and at that time I believe Texas was part of Mexico. Maybe we should remind them of that if and when the Mexicans stake their claim to the Lone Star State.

#23 JohnM

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 04:36 PM

I know it's only the Mirror so unlikely to be true but...

Pope Francis has been a vocal and passionate supporter of his country’s claim on the Falkland Islands, known as Las Malvinas to Argentinians. In April last year, at a memorial mass in Buenos Aires 30 years on from the Falklands conflict, he said: “We come to pray for all who have fallen, sons of the homeland who went out to defend their mother, the homeland, and to reclaim what is theirs, that is of the homeland, and it was usurped.”

http://www.mirror.co...alkland-1762205

#24 Methven Hornet

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 04:56 PM

And now we have to watch the Pope & see what side of the coin he comes down on.


Unless the Vatican has access to a fair-sized task force, I'd say the his opinion isn't that relevant,
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#25 JohnM

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 05:02 PM

Ah but it has!

1.2 billion of them. see http://www.bbc.co.uk.../world-21443313

Edited by JohnM, 26 March 2013 - 05:42 PM.


#26 Methven Hornet

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 05:07 PM

The Island ethnicity is fairly mixed with British, Argentine, Chilean, St Helena, Russian, French descendents all living so it is not surprising there were 3 x 'no' votes.


The no voter I heard sounded British but I think he still wanted to be linked to Britain. I think there have been a few options brought up in the press other than the one approved in the referendum, ie Overseas Territority. Crown Dependency, independence within the Commonwealth, even becoming a full part of the UK have been mentioned in the past (even if not totally seriously). I'm not sure what a population of just under 3,000 would get you in terms of representation at Westminster, mind.

As for the diversity of origins, what is the immigration policy like? Could people from neighbouring countries settle in the Falklands?
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#27 GeordieSaint

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:10 PM

I'm not sure about the Pope, but it's the American president I'd be more worried about.

The Americans seem to keep asking us to negotiate with Argentina when there is clearly nothing to negotiate about.

Obama, incidentally, seemed to think the Falklands were called the Maldives at one point.

We have held the Falklands since 1833, and at that time I believe Texas was part of Mexico. Maybe we should remind them of that if and when the Mexicans stake their claim to the Lone Star State.


The Americans are sniffing around the Islands already at the moment; there are a number of oil companies looking to cash in on the vast amount of energy sources scattered across the Falkland Island waters. As soon as that starts to flow, the Americans will be firmly on the side of the Islanders as well as places like Uruguay and Brazil too... However, the State Dept are being are towing the line and sitting firmly on the fence. The same can't be said of a few Congressmen though who have visited during my time and are firmly in favour of the Islander's right to self-determination.

As for the diversity of origins, what is the immigration policy like? Could people from neighbouring countries settle in the Falklands?


The immigration policy seems to be fairly open. They actively recruit people from overseas to fill jobs that the locals can't fill, especially some of the more technical or professional jobs such as the Attorney General or Chief Superintendent of the Emergency Services. The Governor has the final say on whether an individual can claim Falklands Citizenship and I can't remember the timeframe on the process but many people do. The Government website states 60 nationalities now call the Islands home and that is the case in my experience; I had a lot of contact with the Islanders due to my job role. There is one caveat from what I could tell if you wanted to move to the Islands and that involved buying land in 'Camp', which is basically all areas outside of Stanley. In order to buy land there, you have to continue the land practices in that area. For example, a French couple bought the land at Dunbar on the Northwest tip of West Falkland, which has always been used for sheep farming. They loved the area and wanted to use it for the sailing activities and business to South Georgia and Antarctica, but due to restrictions, they have had to continue sheep farming despite having no prior experience. They incidentally love it but as far I could tell, that is the only restriction on immigration to the Islands. There is NO unemployment (many people have more than one job), the education system is good, it is relatively safe for children and there is loads of wildlife and wilderness to explore, so it is an attractive place to live, bar the remoteness of course!

Edited by GeordieSaint, 26 March 2013 - 06:12 PM.

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#28 Northern Sol

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:56 PM

were they "Mighty Penguins"? I still wear my Mighty Penguin fleece with..er...er... pride.

A recent conversation with a mate of mine, a real firebrand Labour type, not a moderate MOR softie like me, we agreed on one thing. If the Argies had played it cool over the Falklands in the years coming up to 1982, the Falklands would have been now been in Argentinian hands and 649 people would not have lost their lives. The Foreign Office or suchlike was signalling that it wasn't too bothered, people here knew little of the Falklands (and probably cared even less) so a diplomatic solution involving bribed resettlement etc might have resulted, especially considering the historic relationship we had with the Argentine.

All that stopped, though, the moment the Argies got impatient and tried to snatch them without saying "please".

The instant reaction was....oi! You can't do that.... We are BRITISH and the Falklands in OURS so ###### off! No, you can't have them back! True we were not that bothered but now that you want them, you can't have them!!

What a wasted opportunity to forge an alliance with an old friend. Still, that's what we do. Make enemies of them. All because of Fray Bentos tinned steak pies...oh, no, sorry , that was Uruguay.


Argentina at the time was a fascist dictatorship that was throwing dissidents off planes into the South Atlantic. They don't consider the Falklanders to be anything but squatters. Perhaps you think that because a handful of Argies are of British descent then they would have treated the Falklanders as humans but all the evidence is that there would have been Mugabe-style "reforms".

#29 GeordieSaint

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:09 PM

Argentina at the time was a fascist dictatorship that was throwing dissidents off planes into the South Atlantic. They don't consider the Falklanders to be anything but squatters. Perhaps you think that because a handful of Argies are of British descent then they would have treated the Falklanders as humans but all the evidence is that there would have been Mugabe-style "reforms".


To add to your point, the de Kirchner Regime isn't much better at the moment. She is fast becoming a dictator in all but name, disbanding the media (who voice dissent), hampering the judiciary, attempting to change the constittution so she remains in power indefinitely and not to mention waging economic warfare on the Islanders. Branches to her regime have been offered by both the Islanders and HM Government (recently their Foreign Minister refused a meeting with W Hague due to MLA Jan Cheek and Dick Sawle - Island Ministers - wishing to attend) but they will except nothing other than full sovereignity, something that won't happen...

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#30 Phil

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 04:34 PM

Two points

At the time of the invasion British immigration law stated the islanders did not have the right to enter Britain, Thatcher quickly amended that when it was pointed out that this might well impinge on their "BRITISH LIFESTYLE"


Once the oil and gas comes on line and the place is invaded by thousands of oil and gas workers ruining the rural idyll how many of the islanders will want to stay there?
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#31 Bob8

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 06:37 PM

Two points

At the time of the invasion British immigration law stated the islanders did not have the right to enter Britain, Thatcher quickly amended that when it was pointed out that this might well impinge on their "BRITISH LIFESTYLE"


Once the oil and gas comes on line and the place is invaded by thousands of oil and gas workers ruining the rural idyll how many of the islanders will want to stay there?


The Argentinian Government are no serious about wanting to take over the Falklands, she is just banging the jingoistic drum.

For Argentina to be accepted, they would agree to self-determination, keep open trading, arrange cultural exchanges, celebrate the mixed history, and assist with the defence of the Falklands until the residents would have no reason to fear Argentina.

Instead, the Argentine Government have done the opposite and the advent of oil sees the residents more anxious and therefore more pro-British.

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#32 Northern Sol

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:46 PM

Two points

At the time of the invasion British immigration law stated the islanders did not have the right to enter Britain, Thatcher quickly amended that when it was pointed out that this might well impinge on their "BRITISH LIFESTYLE"


Once the oil and gas comes on line and the place is invaded by thousands of oil and gas workers ruining the rural idyll how many of the islanders will want to stay there?


The vast majority I would imagine. It's not like Scots left Scotland in huge numbers when they started drilling for oil / gas.

#33 GeordieSaint

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:43 PM

For Argentina to be accepted, they would agree to self-determination, keep open trading, arrange cultural exchanges, celebrate the mixed history, and assist with the defence of the Falklands until the residents would have no reason to fear Argentina.

Instead, the Argentine Government have done the opposite and the advent of oil sees the residents more anxious and therefore more pro-British.


They'd never be accepted. 1982 completely burnt any potential bridges between Argentina and the Islanders; the current economic warfare being conducted by Argentina just amplifies the feeling of anomosity by the Islanders to the Argentina. They are also petrified of another armed invasion, despite us constantly telling them that Argentina does not have the capability to conduct any large-scale invasion or attack.

The vast majority I would imagine. It's not like Scots left Scotland in huge numbers when they started drilling for oil / gas.


All of them will stay. The wealth created will be shared and felt amongst the population as the monies collected is well spent by the Government; each Islander is due to inherit some money from it too!

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#34 Northern Sol

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:48 AM

They'd never be accepted. 1982 completely burnt any potential bridges between Argentina and the Islanders; the current economic warfare being conducted by Argentina just amplifies the feeling of anomosity by the Islanders to the Argentina. They are also petrified of another armed invasion, despite us constantly telling them that Argentina does not have the capability to conduct any large-scale invasion or attack.



All of them will stay. The wealth created will be shared and felt amongst the population as the monies collected is well spent by the Government; each Islander is due to inherit some money from it too!


Indeed. If the oil ever does come on tap (it's been talked about for 20 years already) then everybody in the Falklands will be rich. I'd imagine that quite a lot of the cash will come our way as well.

#35 GeordieSaint

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 10:34 AM

Indeed. If the oil ever does come on tap (it's been talked about for 20 years already) then everybody in the Falklands will be rich. I'd imagine that quite a lot of the cash will come our way as well.


2017 is the expected date for extraction commencement. There are quite a few companies there already and the FI Government is trying to identify where to build a port capable of dealing with the oil industry. The oil organisations are keen at using the military port at Mare Harbour (west of Fitzroy) but the Government not so much.

There will be a fair bit of cash coming our way too i.e. repayment of military costs for starters since 1982. We won't receive a penny through tax etc as the FI Government are self-sufficient (other than military and foreign policy). The other large benefit is we'll also have easy access to a substantial oil supply rather than relying on the Middle East.

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#36 Northern Sol

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 11:05 AM

Oh I know that they are financial independent, we don't give them any cash and they don't give us any but I think that there is likely to be so much cash around that the Falklanders might actually get embarassed by just how much they will have. What will they do with it all?

North Sea oil was a major factor in British growth in the 1980s and that was shared out with a nation of 55 millon (as it then was). The Falklands has a population that is 1/20,000 times smaller.

#37 Wolford6

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 12:15 PM

Argentina probably can't count on much support from Uruguay.

:O

 

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Edited by Wolford6, 05 April 2013 - 12:16 PM.

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