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(Renamed thread) What RL can learn from the union 6 Nations


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#81 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 05:55 PM

People that keep saying "it's the fans' fault" are not offering ANY solutions.

"The fans need to get off their backsides and support their country" is not a solution.

What suggestions do those blaming the fans have to get them off their backsides?
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#82 Johnoco

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 06:25 PM

People that keep saying "it's the fans' fault" are not offering ANY solutions.

"The fans need to get off their backsides and support their country" is not a solution.

What suggestions do those blaming the fans have to get them off their backsides?

How many RL fans, regular ones, are not aware of RL internationals? It can't be many.
Non RL fans can boost the numbers but we have enough RL fans to produce decent crowds at Internationals *with no prompting or persuading from the RFL*. Other punters are the ones that should take persuading, not people already into RL.

No I don't care if you're if you're into different bands

No cause for so much hatred, I'm just a different man

Pull off that cover, I will too, and learn to understand

With music deep inside we'll make world unity our plan

 

7 Seconds -Walk Together, Rock Together


#83 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 07:34 PM

Part of the problem is that England or GB games are usually at the same old heartland towns and it is a dour day out bar the game.

It would be far better to play England RL games on the road, preferably where Union and Football national teams dont play either - e.g. At places like Bristol, or Cornwall or Norfolk. This would be a real special day/weekend out forNortherners and would pull in newbies/locals and spread toa wider audience

#84 Johnoco

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 07:48 PM

They tried all that in the 2000wc though Lobby. It was hardly a massive success.

No I don't care if you're if you're into different bands

No cause for so much hatred, I'm just a different man

Pull off that cover, I will too, and learn to understand

With music deep inside we'll make world unity our plan

 

7 Seconds -Walk Together, Rock Together


#85 Dave T

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 07:55 PM

Part of the problem is that England or GB games are usually at the same old heartland towns and it is a dour day out bar the game.

It would be far better to play England RL games on the road, preferably where Union and Football national teams dont play either - e.g. At places like Bristol, or Cornwall or Norfolk. This would be a real special day/weekend out forNortherners and would pull in newbies/locals and spread toa wider audience

I agree with your opening line. To suggest taking games to Cornwall or Norfolk as the solution is nonsense!!!

#86 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 07:58 PM

How many RL fans, regular ones, are not aware of RL internationals? It can't be many.
Non RL fans can boost the numbers but we have enough RL fans to produce decent crowds at Internationals *with no prompting or persuading from the RFL*. Other punters are the ones that should take persuading, not people already into RL.

So what's the solution then? You're still just pointing the finger and offering nothing.

You're also not offering any thought out reasons a to why they're not coming. You're not scratching hard enough below the surface.

Edited by Wellsy4HullFC, 19 March 2013 - 07:59 PM.

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#87 Johnoco

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 08:06 PM

So what's the solution then? You're still just pointing the finger and offering nothing.

You're also not offering any thought out reasons a to why they're not coming. You're not scratching hard enough below the surface.

I don't understand where you are coming from mate....is it unreasonable to expect RL fans to want to attend International RL games? Well is it?

I expect a Coldplay concert is populated with mainly Coldplay fans and they don't rely on Oasis fans to fill it? Why *wouldn't* RL fans want to attend without being bribed or persuaded?

Edited by Johnoco, 19 March 2013 - 08:06 PM.

No I don't care if you're if you're into different bands

No cause for so much hatred, I'm just a different man

Pull off that cover, I will too, and learn to understand

With music deep inside we'll make world unity our plan

 

7 Seconds -Walk Together, Rock Together


#88 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 08:46 PM

They tried all that in the 2000wc though Lobby. It was hardly a massive success.


Playing outside the heartlands was more successful in the 2000WC than playing in the heartlands. Anyone remember 5k at Saints to watch England? The WC was undone by bad press, too many sumultaneous games at the wrong time of year, with bad weather. Perhaps the non-heartland town choices were wrong too? They were at small places with big Union clubs, eg Gloucester, Llanelli. Daft

I was at the Aus v Samoa SF at Watford and it was on the same day as Eng V Ireland at Leeds so there was no chance of doing both games.

I was serious about places like Cornwall (huge rugby place but neglected by England RU and no big club), Norfolk (neglected by everything bar Alan Partridge), and Bristol (nice big city with underperforming football and RU clubs).

#89 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 08:59 PM

I don't understand where you are coming from mate....is it unreasonable to expect RL fans to want to attend International RL games? Well is it?

I expect a Coldplay concert is populated with mainly Coldplay fans and they don't rely on Oasis fans to fill it? Why *wouldn't* RL fans want to attend without being bribed or persuaded?

Where I'm coming from is that simply saying "they should be coming" doesn't offer a solution to the problem. The reason it doesn't is because if it was that simple they'd be coming already!

Sometimes the problems aren't clear. The fact is you can't see them because you can't offer any other reasons.

You keep grouping RL fans together and expecting them to have the same reasons and motivations to watch international RL. This CLEARLY isn't the case. Club RL and international RL aren't the same thing. People that are motivated to watch club RL do not all watch it because they are fans of rugby league itself. That is a fact. They cannot be expected to want to watch international RL just because they have a passing interest ( or eveb a vested interest) in their club.

There is so much more to it than simply "you're a rugby league fan, you should be coming."

You really need to scratch further beneath the surface to understand people's behaviours. The reason you're struggling to do this is because you can't take your personal motivations for the game out of the equation and look at what others' may be.

People do not attend sports games simply because they like watching that sport. That again is another fact.
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#90 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 09:00 PM

I was serious about places like Cornwall (huge rugby place but neglected by England RU and no big club), Norfolk (neglected by everything bar Alan Partridge), and Bristol (nice big city with underperforming football and RU clubs).

That doesn't mean it's a good idea to bang a top RL game there. You could say the same about MANY places.
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#91 hindle xiii

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 09:01 PM

What do you suggest as a first step Wellsy?

On Odsal Top baht 'at.


#92 Johnoco

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 09:04 PM

Clearly I can't see where you are coming from nor likely to. I have a fairly straightforward view on things in life: I enjoy something, I want to be involved...go and see it etc. If I don't like it, I don't. I don't like something and then demand it justifies itself to me...I like it and want to be there.
And part of the problem is the historical antipathy to International RL. It's not seen as something that we necessarily have to bother with as our club comes first. But I see no reason for not supporting both.

Edited by Johnoco, 19 March 2013 - 10:07 PM.

No I don't care if you're if you're into different bands

No cause for so much hatred, I'm just a different man

Pull off that cover, I will too, and learn to understand

With music deep inside we'll make world unity our plan

 

7 Seconds -Walk Together, Rock Together


#93 hindle xiii

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 09:12 PM

Could the RFL or whoever, get the information of season ticket holders at clubs? I know they'll already have the info for people who have bought event tickets before, but perhaps not the many more who are club members.

If they can't, I'd like to think they'd whisper in the ear of the clubs themselves to give their supporters a nudge.

On Odsal Top baht 'at.


#94 hindle xiii

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 09:15 PM

Even though they have released tickets early, I still think the same supporters are being squeezed though, and it's been said before the other events may take a dip. I don't know how you get new people involved in this day and age, but I sure as hell hope the RFL get someone, and don't rely on us oranges for the juice.

On Odsal Top baht 'at.


#95 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 09:56 PM

That doesn't mean it's a good idea to bang a top RL game there. You could say the same about MANY places.


Agreed - they were examples.


#96 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 10:25 PM

Do you not think there are grounds for optimism with this England team in the RLWC? As always your forwards will hold their own and your 3/4s will not be out of their depth this time around. It's pretty clear they have the ability to run in 3 tries against Australia or NZ. Sam Burgess, Tomkins, Hall - that's 3 marquis players right there, so no real reason not to be excited about what will be some really good games this autumn.
In other words if you can't get yourself enfused about the prospect of the best rugby players on the planet playing at the highest level the game has to offer what's the point in being a rugby league fan?


I was saying that Australia is the only real match of importance to British RL fans. NZ should be another but they don't seem to have wider appeal.

The fact that there is nobody else is a big part of the problem.

I still don't subscribe to blaming the fans, I think it's apathy and down to a lack of interest rather than any stubbornness or 'bad rugby league fans.'

Rugby League for me is a family thing and I go games with my brothers and nephews. Pretty much most of what we talk about is RL related, usually Widnes lol. In the last few years we've been a number of internationals against NZ and Australia.

The sad reality is that when it comes to France, Wales or other games we just don't chat about it and wouldn't consider going. We're not boycotting anything, we're just not enthused by the low-key internationals. Personally I don't enjoy one-sided games where the result isn't in doubt. I'll sometimes watch on TV (oddly in the hope that the opposition puts up a fight) but won't lose any sleep if I miss it.

I know I'll get slated but I think some on here would prefer to believe that RL fans are bitter and boycotting games rather than the reality that they just aren't interested. Look at Australia, it's no coincidence that we are not much of a draw there since we stopped being competitive. This despite historically large domestic and interstate attendances.

Like I said earlier, guilting fans into going will never work. You'll never get people to attend games if they don't genuinely want to go.


#97 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 10:31 PM

Where I'm coming from is that simply saying "they should be coming" doesn't offer a solution to the problem. The reason it doesn't is because if it was that simple they'd be coming already!

Sometimes the problems aren't clear. The fact is you can't see them because you can't offer any other reasons.

You keep grouping RL fans together and expecting them to have the same reasons and motivations to watch international RL. This CLEARLY isn't the case. Club RL and international RL aren't the same thing. People that are motivated to watch club RL do not all watch it because they are fans of rugby league itself. That is a fact. They cannot be expected to want to watch international RL just because they have a passing interest ( or eveb a vested interest) in their club.

There is so much more to it than simply "you're a rugby league fan, you should be coming."

You really need to scratch further beneath the surface to understand people's behaviours. The reason you're struggling to do this is because you can't take your personal motivations for the game out of the equation and look at what others' may be.

People do not attend sports games simply because they like watching that sport. That again is another fact.


Spot on. It's a myth that there are swathes of fans that want to go that are not going because they are being stubborn or something.

I wonder what percentage of England RU or Football fans go out of loyalty to the sport. I suspect it is almost zero percent.

#98 Johnoco

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 10:42 PM

Spot on. It's a myth that there are swathes of fans that want to go that are not going because they are being stubborn or something.

I wonder what percentage of England RU or Football fans go out of loyalty to the sport. I suspect it is almost zero percent.

There's absolutely no myth about the poor crowds at international RL since almost forever. For the umpteenth time, its not about loyalty or being coerced into attending - its about enjoying RL and *wanting* to go. The crowds at club level in RU are not so different from RL so as to suggest the huge discrepancy that exists.

No I don't care if you're if you're into different bands

No cause for so much hatred, I'm just a different man

Pull off that cover, I will too, and learn to understand

With music deep inside we'll make world unity our plan

 

7 Seconds -Walk Together, Rock Together


#99 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 11:52 PM

Clearly I can't see where you are coming from nor likely to. I have a fairly straightforward view on things in life: I enjoy something, I want to be involved...go and see it etc. If I don't like it, I don't.

And that's how most people feel. They like their club games, they go to them. They don't like the international games, they don't go.

You like rugby league, but you don't go to every game. There's a reason why you pick and choose the games you do.

I don't like something and then demand it justifies itself to me...I like it and want to be there.

If that part of the business wants to grow, it HAS to justify itself to a bigger customer base. THAT is the solution to growing the crowds.

Just complaining about people not supporting it isn't a solution and achieves absolutely nothing. It's completely pointless.

And part of the problem is the historical antipathy to International RL. It's not seen as something that we necessarily have to bother with as our club comes first. But I see no reason for not supporting both.

But there are reasons why someone else may not support both. Just because you have no reason doesn't mean there isn't one.

I go to as many internationals as I can afford to go to usually. I didn't go last year to the 3 Nations. I chose to play for my club instead. There's a problem that shouldn't be there right away. I had to choose between two rugby league related activities. I won't have been the only one.
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#100 Johnoco

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 11:59 PM

Its not pointless Wellsy, apathy in RL is a major issue. Call it what you want its still apathy.
Its not comparable with me because I believe in supporting the things I believe in and not asking why I should do so. I do this because its how I am. If I'm out of step with the rest of RL then so be it.
It still doesn't explain the historical attendances though does it?

No I don't care if you're if you're into different bands

No cause for so much hatred, I'm just a different man

Pull off that cover, I will too, and learn to understand

With music deep inside we'll make world unity our plan

 

7 Seconds -Walk Together, Rock Together





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