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#61 Marauder

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 08:56 AM

Can you confirm what evidence you have that this is imminent.

 

You seem to put sweeping statements adn im not sure how you can back these up you have no involvement with a NCL club and on a previous post congratualte the way the management run the competition.

The congratulations are aimed more on how it was run to get to where it is and at the moment IMO it is still being run very well but under a guidance.

 

Do you really have to have involvement with a NCL club to see and hear what the goal and role of the NCL under the RFL operational rules will be.

 

Did you take note of how dual reg was said to be going to be used before it was implemented and what is actually happening now?

 

I don't gamble, but I will have you a 0ne hundred pound bet that the RFL are trying to force (force may be a little strong) dual reg into the NCL, At the moment I'd say they are looking at ways and timing to implement it so a few people who have always been against permit/DR players in the NCL can save face.


Edited by Marauder, 01 May 2013 - 09:05 AM.

Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#62 casyorkie

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 09:14 AM

The congratulations are aimed more on how it was run to get to where it is and at the moment IMO it is still being run very well but under a guidance.

 

Do you really have to have involvement with a NCL club to see and hear what the goal and role of the NCL under the RFL operational rules will be.

 

Did you take note of how dual reg was said to be going to be used before it was implemented and what is actually happening now?

 

I don't gamble, but I will have you a 0ne hundred pound bet that the RFL are trying to force (force may be a little strong) dual reg into the NCL, At the moment I'd say they are looking at ways and timing to implement it so a few people who have always been against permit/DR players in the NCL can save face.

You may be right that the RFL want to implement dual reg but im also pretty sure the majority if not all clubs will vote against it.

 

That is the big point about the NCL its the clubs that decide and i cant see how they would see it as a good thing.

 

Personally i wouldnt have a problem if a lad went back to his orginal amateur club to play if he cant play in the professional team but would be totally against say one professional club having links with an amatuer one



#63 Marauder

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 10:58 AM

You may be right that the RFL want to implement dual reg but im also pretty sure the majority if not all clubs will vote against it.

 

That is the big point about the NCL its the clubs that decide and i cant see how they would see it as a good thing.

 

Personally i wouldnt have a problem if a lad went back to his orginal amateur club to play if he cant play in the professional team but would be totally against say one professional club having links with an amatuer one

The NCL do vote democratically on a agenda but the committee also give the clubs recommendations on how to vote and the NCL (Like it or not) now run under the RFL slightly adjusted operational rules so the chain of command and pyramid systems are in place even down to the building of elite junior teams, it's just the perks and timing that need to be sorted now.

 

I've been watching this development for a bit now because I was told by a very good source that the people on the top table of the NCL have always been against permit players,  like yourself I have no problems of a limited number (2) of permit players being at one club (When the regional clubs voted on ending permit players I think I was the only one who voted to keep them at the CMS Yorkshire meeting) but I don't like the idea of guys who play the game for a hobby having their noses pushed out for one or maybe two weeks so a pro can gain match fitness.


Edited by Marauder, 01 May 2013 - 11:00 AM.

Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#64 del capo

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 05:33 PM

The NCL do vote democratically on a agenda but the committee also give the clubs recommendations on how to vote and the NCL (Like it or not) now run under the RFL slightly adjusted operational rules so the chain of command and pyramid systems are in place even down to the building of elite junior teams, it's just the perks and timing that need to be sorted now.

 

I've been watching this development for a bit now because I was told by a very good source that the people on the top table of the NCL have always been against permit players,  like yourself I have no problems of a limited number (2) of permit players being at one club (When the regional clubs voted on ending permit players I think I was the only one who voted to keep them at the CMS Yorkshire meeting) but I don't like the idea of guys who play the game for a hobby having their noses pushed out for one or maybe two weeks so a pro can gain match fitness.

 A game wide review , following the Watkin's recommendations is virtually complete Marauder and is due to be presented to the three levels of RL within the next two weeks. The Community Board receive it on 7th May. It's top to bottom stuff and other threads on here have picked bits of it up.

 

At the end of the day we are one game or we try to run in three directions. The latter is a dead end, so we all have to  get in to the one bed but fight over the pillowcases and covers. Within that framework the NCL will continue to look after its members and especially the integrity of its competition. Dual reg and permit players will be part of that agenda in due course , and yes there have been discussions but the current suggestions from our part of Tier 3  ( ideas NOT policy ) are even tighter than you and Casyorkie have mentioned.

 

IF ( and I mean IF ) the NCL committee after due deliberation decide to make recommendations , it will still be a matter for the clubs  to make the final decision.

 

Some amateur leagues have already accepted dual reg etc .The NCL will take their own due process route.

 

And as for the  'RFL ' regulatory group , it in fact belongs to the Community game  - the base line rules from the very start have been taken from the NCL ones.......with Barla having a massive input at every meeting.          ;)



#65 thestatman

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 06:23 PM

It is tough, the integrity of the competition is of course paramount but at the same time rugby league (be that the RFL/Pro Clubs/Community game) has an obligation to look after the young lads in the professional game. Community clubs spend years developing players in order for them to hopefully reach there dreams of turning professional and making a living out of the game. Some of these lads are being left in no man's land by the current system.

Just an example. We have had a lad come to us a couple of months ago from Saints, he was signed about 2 years ago as an 18 year old, on an academy contract. He signed from Thatto Heath U18's (having played the majority of his junior rugby at Portico Vine) , having been in the scholarship/academy system at Saints for a long time. He began the season in Saints U19s academy set up, having turned 20 he was soon too old to play in the U19s, had nowhere to go on dual registration as the CC and CC1 clubs are (quite rightfully in my opinion) only looking to take players that are either established or or the fringes of the 1st team squad. This left him with the prospect of being left in limbo and sitting on the sidelines until in the end of his contract. Not being able to play the game he loves. The result he feels he has no option but to walk out on the contract and a guaranteed income just so he can carry on playing rugby league. I can't believe that he is the only player in this situation. He now has the opportunity to enjoy his rugby again but at the same time is out of pocket as a result. Surely this situation isn't right and some compromise needs to be reached to make sure lads don't feel like walking out on a contract or even walking away from the game altogether is the only way of ending these frustrations.

My personal solution would be to let the lads who are on part time academy/reserve contracts at Super League or Championship clubs to return to the community club from which they signed to play and get game time. If the player has appeared in Super League this should not be an option or if he has turned out on more than 4 occasions for a CC/CC1 club 1st grade then he should not be able to do it. The last thing the NCL wants is to become a dumping ground for teams in the pro game to put their unwanted/unfit players but at the same time there needs to be a solution for these lads that are being left high and dry by the current system.

Edited by thestatman, 01 May 2013 - 06:29 PM.

SINGING MY MUM'S A .......

 

 

Views are my own and not necessarily those of Thatto Heath Crusaders!!


#66 del capo

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 06:58 PM

It is tough, the integrity of the competition is of course paramount but at the same time rugby league (be that the RFL/Pro Clubs/Community game) has an obligation to look after the young lads in the professional game. Community clubs spend years developing players in order for them to hopefully reach there dreams of turning professional and making a living out of the game. Some of these lads are being left in no man's land by the current system.

Just an example. We have had a lad come to us a couple of months ago from Saints, he was signed about 2 years ago as an 18 year old, on an academy contract. He signed from Thatto Heath U18's (having played the majority of his junior rugby at Portico Vine) , having been in the scholarship/academy system at Saints for a long time. He began the season in Saints U19s academy set up, having turned 20 he was soon too old to play in the U19s, had nowhere to go on dual registration as the CC and CC1 clubs are (quite rightfully in my opinion) only looking to take players that are either established or or the fringes of the 1st team squad. This left him with the prospect of being left in limbo and sitting on the sidelines until in the end of his contract. Not being able to play the game he loves. The result he feels he has no option but to walk out on the contract and a guaranteed income just so he can carry on playing rugby league. I can't believe that he is the only player in this situation. He now has the opportunity to enjoy his rugby again but at the same time is out of pocket as a result. Surely this situation isn't right and some compromise needs to be reached to make sure lads don't feel like walking out on a contract or even walking away from the game altogether is the only way of ending these frustrations.

My personal solution would be to let the lads who are on part time academy/reserve contracts at Super League or Championship clubs to return to the community club from which they signed to play and get game time. If the player has appeared in Super League this should not be an option or if he has turned out on more than 4 occasions for a CC/CC1 club 1st grade then he should not be able to do it. The last thing the NCL wants is to become a dumping ground for teams in the pro game to put their unwanted/unfit players but at the same time there needs to be a solution for these lads that are being left high and dry by the current system.

Yes it is tough Statman

 

 I have heard that Lee Radford turned out against St Pat's this weekend ( no complaints ) at the same time as the dad of a St Pat's 17 year old was tearing up his lad's so called part time pro contract with Wigan ( one game in 7 weeks ) so he could play the game he loves. Where is the logic in that ? These are not isolated incidents and we all I believe have a duty to look after our youngsters and keep them with us.

 

So there is a lot of thought being put into the issues of what is right for the NCL, its clubs and the kids our junior sides are producing.. As I have said - one bed - let's argue over the pillows.............



#67 Marauder

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 08:47 PM

Yes it is tough Statman

 

 I have heard that Lee Radford turned out against St Pat's this weekend ( no complaints ) at the same time as the dad of a St Pat's 17 year old was tearing up his lad's so called part time pro contract with Wigan ( one game in 7 weeks ) so he could play the game he loves. Where is the logic in that ? These are not isolated incidents and we all I believe have a duty to look after our youngsters and keep them with us.

 

So there is a lot of thought being put into the issues of what is right for the NCL, its clubs and the kids our junior sides are producing.. As I have said - one bed - let's argue over the pillows.............

Surely you have to be looking at why the RFL logic, planning and pyramids have prevented a 17 year-old the chance to play the game he loves once in seven weeks.

 

 I'd be taking a look at why a system which has serviced both the amateur and pro game for many years has started to fail once the RFL maneuvered themselves into a position of control.


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#68 TaxiEgg

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 10:25 PM

Booze up in a brewery , the game is being turned upside down on several fronts by people who are so arrogant and can not see the damage they are causing especially to the community game.

 

The main problem is we have put all our eggs in one basket as to the season we are playing our rugby , we had a perfect working aggreement with community / academy for our youth players now its in total chaos because of changes implemented by the RFL.

 

IMO dual registrations with come into the top tier of the amatuer game irrespective of wether the NCL management or clubs want it , the RFL will do like they already have in other areas , offer it to the NCL first and if they dont accept it the RFL will set up another league inviting clubs to apply with fringe benefits ,you can see it coming ,and one thing I have learned there is no loyalty in rugby league .

 

So lets say good bye to the community game as we know it the writing is on the wall.



#69 Marauder

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 10:41 PM

Booze up in a brewery , the game is being turned upside down on several fronts by people who are so arrogant and can not see the damage they are causing especially to the community game.

 

The main problem is we have put all our eggs in one basket as to the season we are playing our rugby , we had a perfect working aggreement with community / academy for our youth players now its in total chaos because of changes implemented by the RFL.

 

IMO dual registrations with come into the top tier of the amatuer game irrespective of wether the NCL management or clubs want it , the RFL will do like they already have in other areas , offer it to the NCL first and if they dont accept it the RFL will set up another league inviting clubs to apply with fringe benefits ,you can see it coming ,and one thing I have learned there is no loyalty in rugby league .

 

So lets say good bye to the community game as we know it the writing is on the wall.

I've been slated for a few years for saying it.

 

 The time is NEARLY right for BARLA to set up an alternative Conference based on what it was to catch the unwanted NCL clubs.


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#70 casyorkie

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 08:09 AM

Booze up in a brewery , the game is being turned upside down on several fronts by people who are so arrogant and can not see the damage they are causing especially to the community game.

 

The main problem is we have put all our eggs in one basket as to the season we are playing our rugby , we had a perfect working aggreement with community / academy for our youth players now its in total chaos because of changes implemented by the RFL.

 

IMO dual registrations with come into the top tier of the amatuer game irrespective of wether the NCL management or clubs want it , the RFL will do like they already have in other areas , offer it to the NCL first and if they dont accept it the RFL will set up another league inviting clubs to apply with fringe benefits ,you can see it coming ,and one thing I have learned there is no loyalty in rugby league .

 

So lets say good bye to the community game as we know it the writing is on the wall.

I believe there is a lot of loyalty within the NCL ,its the best run amatuer league in the country and i think most teams who play summer would love to be in it.You dont get many teams dropping out of the league by choice.

 

The rfl could offer lots of incentives but i think most teams would stick with the NCL as they would worry if it would be administed as well.



#71 casyorkie

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 08:11 AM

I've been slated for a few years for saying it.

 

 The time is NEARLY right for BARLA to set up an alternative Conference based on what it was to catch the unwanted NCL clubs.

Youve beeen slated for years but it still hasnt happened, i agree things may be changing and these lads not getting games isnt right but i have full fiath the NCL clubs would vote no to full dual reg they may accept players going back to their orignial clubs ( i would like this)



#72 Marauder

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 01:38 PM

Thin end of the wedge.

Youve beeen slated for years but it still hasnt happened, i agree things may be changing and these lads not getting games isnt right but i have full fiath the NCL clubs would vote no to full dual reg they may accept players going back to their orignial clubs ( i would like this)


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#73 Death to the Rah Rah's

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 02:05 PM

You should set up your own organisation Marauder as you seem to know more about whats going on in the corridors of Red Hall and BARLA that the Regional Leagues Reps do.

I think that newly formed MARLA Yorkshire League would be a serious challenger to the RFL and NCL set-ups

#74 Marauder

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 02:40 PM

You should set up your own organisation Marauder as you seem to know more about whats going on in the corridors of Red Hall and BARLA that the Regional Leagues Reps do.

I think that newly formed MARLA Yorkshire League would be a serious challenger to the RFL and NCL set-ups

I don't need my own little empire, I'm happy to work with the one that I see has being democratic and has evolved via the system, the one that is run by people who love the game, have it at their heart and not in it just for the trappings.

 

If I do wrong I'll hold my hands up and admit it, I'll also try to put right any wrongs even if it was not intentional, I'll go out of my way and help others so by nature I don't need to be top dog.

 

But on the other hand my own league could be a threat to the RFL simply because I couldn't be bought off, bribed or blackmailed so maybe it would be a threat to the RFL.

 

 

[Whispering on} Do you want to be the Chairman {Whispering off}


Edited by Marauder, 02 May 2013 - 02:45 PM.

Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#75 Li0nhead

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 03:16 PM

[Whispering on} Do you want to be the Chairman {Whispering off}

 

See now your getting the hang of it. Set someone else up as a front man to take all the flack while your the one really controlling things from behind the scenes at your new MARLA body without getting the flack.  :D


Edited by Li0nhead, 02 May 2013 - 03:17 PM.


#76 Death to the Rah Rah's

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 03:23 PM

Ha ha, I really like this thread, it could run for months!!

#77 Marauder

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 03:42 PM

I think it will run for months, it will also keep going back to go (Obviously only the chosen few collecting £200) when a NCL/RFL press release is released.

Ha ha, I really like this thread, it could run for months!!


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



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#78 Marauder

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 03:54 PM

Who is Watkins and who has given him the guidelines of where the game; was, is and where who wants it to be where?

 

 

Only asking because this will surely have a bearing on his findings.

 A game wide review , following the Watkin's recommendations is virtually complete Marauder and is due to be presented to the three levels of RL within the next two weeks. The Community Board receive it on 7th May. It's top to bottom stuff and other threads on here have picked bits of it up.

 

At the end of the day we are one game or we try to run in three directions. The latter is a dead end, so we all have to  get in to the one bed but fight over the pillowcases and covers. Within that framework the NCL will continue to look after its members and especially the integrity of its competition. Dual reg and permit players will be part of that agenda in due course , and yes there have been discussions but the current suggestions from our part of Tier 3  ( ideas NOT policy ) are even tighter than you and Casyorkie have mentioned.

 

IF ( and I mean IF ) the NCL committee after due deliberation decide to make recommendations , it will still be a matter for the clubs  to make the final decision.

 

Some amateur leagues have already accepted dual reg etc .The NCL will take their own due process route.

 

And as for the  'RFL ' regulatory group , it in fact belongs to the Community game  - the base line rules from the very start have been taken from the NCL ones.......with Barla having a massive input at every meeting.          ;)


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.



http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/

#79 del capo

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 05:03 PM

Maurice Watkins , immediate acting past Chair for the game. He did the soundings ---can't understand how he missed you out Marauder but he gave plenty of time to listening to Barla's corner. The process is now being overseen by the new Chair Brian Barwick. 

 

I suspect the literature has been prepared by the RFL full time professional officers.' as I suppose you would expect as it's their job.

 

Surprised your Barla people have not kept you up to speed --they seem to come in two's now to the Community Board , for some reason or another.........



#80 TaxiEgg

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 06:03 PM

To match the NCL representation Peter ^_^

 

Peter what are your views on proffessional players playing in the NCL along side amatuers ?

 

Sam Tompkins turning out for his old club St Pats getting back some match fitness far fetched dillusional , extreme I know ;)






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