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#381 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 09:20 AM

Totally agree. And artificially propping the league up with sugar daddy's money is a house built on sand.


yup
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#382 deluded pom?

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 09:29 AM

I think for that to happen more central control woul be needed rgsrding the way clubs are run: as in the US, with stricter controls ove who is allowed into the competiton. I guess I'm talking about franchising.

You can't blme Leeds andothers for running a successful operation,

I agree but it's how that successful operation came about that worries me if Parky is to be believed.

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#383 The Parksider

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 10:01 AM

I'm not suggesting the Rhinos try to deliberately underachieve. I'm asking that they and others make decisions that are beneficial to the league as a whole and not just Leeds Rhinos. I'm asking that clubs lose the "I'm alright Jack" attitude and see the bigger picture.


It was beneficial to Superleague as a whole for Leeds to wipe out Bramley, and supress Hunslet until everyone in and around the city wants to go to Headingley.

It was beneficial to Superleague as a whole for Leeds under Hetheringtons policy of home grown players to work extremely hard on local Junior RL and start producing the stars of tommorow.

It was beneficial to superleague as a whole for Leeds to develop their ground to create more income streams so that the club could survive and profit, and mr. Caddick could stop putting his money in.

What Leeds have done is increase the number of paying fans, get more money from them, produced their own stars, and attarcted a lot of sponsorship and advertising.

I don't think this is at all selfish. It is clearly the model for others to follow.

When Leeds won the SL again Hetherington enjoyed the moment and then came out and actually said that it was no good for the game.

I think Hull could get 15,000 into the KC if they can overcome their own troubles. Newmarket can get 10,000 averages easily if the game was sorted out around there. There ARE 10,000 potential Salford fans (they attended the last game) if the club could just sort out a junior development and playing staff policy that was effective.

Bradford COULD get back to crowds well over 10,000 if Odsal can be turned round from being a millstone into an assett.

But it needs the clubs to work hard towards these things to raise the additional "income" Padge talks about.

And to be absolutely fair I believe the clubs ARE chasing this - Glover at Wakefield, Koukash at Salford, Khan and Hardcastle at Bradford, Pearson at Hull, O'Connor at Widnes, Toulouse also want in.

Gary Hetherington is a leader and an example not an "I'm allright Jack"

Edited by The Parksider, 28 March 2013 - 10:02 AM.


#384 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 10:44 AM

It was beneficial to Superleague as a whole for Leeds to wipe out Bramley, and supress Hunslet until everyone in and around the city wants to go to Headingley.

It was beneficial to Superleague as a whole for Leeds under Hetheringtons policy of home grown players to work extremely hard on local Junior RL and start producing the stars of tommorow.

It was beneficial to superleague as a whole for Leeds to develop their ground to create more income streams so that the club could survive and profit, and mr. Caddick could stop putting his money in.

What Leeds have done is increase the number of paying fans, get more money from them, produced their own stars, and attarcted a lot of sponsorship and advertising.

I don't think this is at all selfish. It is clearly the model for others to follow.

When Leeds won the SL again Hetherington enjoyed the moment and then came out and actually said that it was no good for the game.

I think Hull could get 15,000 into the KC if they can overcome their own troubles. Newmarket can get 10,000 averages easily if the game was sorted out around there. There ARE 10,000 potential Salford fans (they attended the last game) if the club could just sort out a junior development and playing staff policy that was effective.

Bradford COULD get back to crowds well over 10,000 if Odsal can be turned round from being a millstone into an assett.

But it needs the clubs to work hard towards these things to raise the additional "income" Padge talks about.

And to be absolutely fair I believe the clubs ARE chasing this - Glover at Wakefield, Koukash at Salford, Khan and Hardcastle at Bradford, Pearson at Hull, O'Connor at Widnes, Toulouse also want in.

Gary Hetherington is a leader and an example not an "I'm allright Jack"


Bramley had effectively wiped temselves out years before what happend gv them a short period of Grace and the Rhinos a chance to run a cheap subsidiary: which in my view there was nothing ethically wrong with.

I don't see how the Rhinos had any influence on the Hawks other than buying up and oming players like james Lowes,and others before him although others were buying players like kelvin Skerrett, and trhe annual cash injection of the Lazenby Cup.

perhaps I'm missing your point.
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#385 Steve May

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 10:46 AM

I'm now at a loss to see which RU stars would do any good in our game and draw the crowds?


They wouldn't.

People in the game massively overestimate the impact that players have more widely. I'll bet that 75% of the population of Warrington couldn't pick Lee Briers out of a line up. The idea that they'll get really excited about some Welsh RU player is ridiculous.

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#386 Steve May

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 10:51 AM

Bradford COULD get back to crowds well over 10,000 if Odsal can be turned round from being a millstone into an assett.


Nah. What Bradford need is a cashed up millionaire ready to ###### away a fortune on hiring as many Australians as he can to win as much as he can before the ego boost fades and he buggers off in search of the next new toy.

That's the way to grow a sustainable sport. None of this "investment" nonsense.

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#387 Steve May

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:01 AM

I'm not suggesting the Rhinos try to deliberately underachieve. I'm asking that they and others make decisions that are beneficial to the league as a whole and not just Leeds Rhinos. I'm asking that clubs lose the "I'm alright Jack" attitude and see the bigger picture.


Yes. Leeds Rhinos, and every other club, need to understand that they do not stand alone. The game, and all the clubs in it, is a community of clubs and they stand or fall together.

Leeds could, and they have the money and influence to do this, pull out of the salary cap tomorrow and trigger a bidding war for the best players. A handful of clubs could generate the revenue to stay with them for a while, some owners could bankroll the chase for a while, most clubs would be left scrabbling over the leftovers.

After two years the sport would lie in exhausted tatters.

Sounds like a plan eh?

The reason Leeds don't do this is because they understand that there is no future in an uncompetitive league. Leeds need Cas, Hull, Widnes for the simple reason that they have to play someone and in the end the punters prefer a tight, engaging match to a walkover.

It's not about Leeds, or any other "big club" accepting mediocrity. It's about Leeds understanding that they are just the biggest member of a close knit family.


I think Leeds are a terrifically well run club and clearly are our game's flagship. They are the club that Wigan could have been in the early 90s had Mo not been so myopically focussed on the trophy cabinet. I think this will become clear when Sinfield et al retire and the trophies dry up - I do not think Leeds will collapse and have to sell Headingley when that, inevitably, happens.

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#388 The Parksider

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:06 AM

Nah. What Bradford need is a cashed up millionaire ready to ###### away a fortune on hiring as many Australians as he can to win as much as he can before the ego boost fades and he buggers off in search of the next new toy.

That's the way to grow a sustainable sport. None of this "investment" nonsense.


Thanks Steve......

What do you think about Fartowns flatlining crowds? 7846 to 7709 in five years??

#389 The Parksider

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:08 AM

Yes. Leeds Rhinos, and every other club, need to understand that they do not stand alone. The game, and all the clubs in it, is a community of clubs and they stand or fall together.

Leeds could, and they have the money and influence to do this, pull out of the salary cap tomorrow and trigger a bidding war for the best players. A handful of clubs could generate the revenue to stay with them for a while, some owners could bankroll the chase for a while, most clubs would be left scrabbling over the leftovers.

After two years the sport would lie in exhausted tatters.

Sounds like a plan eh?

The reason Leeds don't do this is because they understand that there is no future in an uncompetitive league. Leeds need Cas, Hull, Widnes for the simple reason that they have to play someone and in the end the punters prefer a tight, engaging match to a walkover.

It's not about Leeds, or any other "big club" accepting mediocrity. It's about Leeds understanding that they are just the biggest member of a close knit family.


I think Leeds are a terrifically well run club and clearly are our game's flagship. They are the club that Wigan could have been in the early 90s had Mo not been so myopically focussed on the trophy cabinet. I think this will become clear when Sinfield et al retire and the trophies dry up - I do not think Leeds will collapse and have to sell Headingley when that, inevitably, happens.


Nice one. Hope Fartown get the trophies instead.....

#390 longboard

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:11 AM

Yup, professional and semi-professional team sports balance self-interest and mutual interest. It's one of the reasons why in the USA out and out capitalist sports "franchise" owners employ "socialist" policies on signing players using the draft. They know that it is in their own interests and their longer term financial health to have a competitive league.

#391 longboard

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:16 AM

What do you think about Fartowns flatlining crowds? 7846 to 7709 in five years??


It's a struggle for Fartown but they have come from a low base. A couple of trophy wins and an upturn in the economy will help. Developing a new, relatively young supporter base has its limitations but that's another tale.

Of course you will have realised, that Hudds get a greater proportion of the town watching them, than Leeds get from their city population.........

#392 Steve May

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:39 AM

Thanks Steve......

What do you think about Fartowns flatlining crowds? 7846 to 7709 in five years??


The club needs a trophy now. I can't see any other way to progress further. Great facilities, great marketing to families, a terrific side filled with English, often local, players. What's missing is a pot. I think if we'd have beaten Wire in the Cup a few years back we'd have pushed on to 10,000 crowds now.

I think the question needs to be put into context. Imagine asking a Swinton fan that question in 20 years time. How would they feel about the Lions crowds hanging around just under the 8,000 mark? If you'd have stood amongst the weeds on the crumbling terrace at Fartown back in the day and asked me what I thought of Huddersfield's crowd being "only" 8,000 or so I'd have thought you were deluded.

No other club in SL right now has come from such a low base or faced such an extended period of underachievement. Given the state of the club in the mid-80s, there's a good case to say that Huddersfield are really an expansion club.

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#393 John Rhino

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 12:28 PM

And Back to the thread

Andy Wilson tweeting that Noble has got the gig.

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#394 Steve May

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 12:30 PM

And Back to the thread

Andy Wilson tweeting that Noble has got the gig.


Great choice.

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#395 Southstander13

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 12:33 PM

Great choice.


Id agree, to build the club and get it heading in the right direction I think Noble is a great appointment.

#396 Northern Sol

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 12:38 PM

For a start, the central funding pot would be split 10/12 ways rather than 14.


But we don't know that the pot would be the same size.

Add to this the fact that some clubs have already stated that they want to be able to spend above the current cap in order to retain the best players. At present, the cap artificially restricts this in order to achieve some sort of parity (although some would argue it simply dumbs the competition down).

Ps, you still haven't provided an adequate explanation as to why fewer clubs would lead to a "shortfall"

Fewer clubs doesn't necessarily equate to fewer fixtures.


No, but it does mean fewer players.

#397 John Rhino

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 12:38 PM

Hope his sources are good.., not seen anything official. ;-)

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#398 Bob8

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 12:42 PM

The thing about these forums is that, by their nature, they're populated by people who have a genuine zeal for rugby league. As such, most of these people will continue to follow the game through thick and thin.

There's a tendency in rugby league to lose sight of the game's position (or lack of) in the wider sporting world.

The truth is, our stars (Tomkins, Hall, Watkins etc) are potentially the keys to the sport's chances of unlocking a wider sporting audience.

If we lose those stars we not only lose that opportunity but we also propagate the perception that rugby league is a weak/dying game.

My opinion is that we have a generation of potential 'crossover' stars emerging but the game itself is standing at a crossroads between establishing a wider appeal or drifting further into sporting obscurity.


Hardened fans can appreciate the quality, most people cannot.

Most casual rugby fans probably thought Will Carling was far more skilful than Ellery Hanley, not because the were biased, they were just not able to tell.

Sam Tomkins would be a huge national star in rugby union and we would be hearing about him as one of the worlds's great sportsmen. We are not and most people who casually see him on the TV will not appreciate how good he is.

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#399 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 01:48 PM

And Back to the thread

Andy Wilson tweeting that Noble has got the gig.


Excellent

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#400 deluded pom?

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 06:24 PM

Yup, professional and semi-professional team sports balance self-interest and mutual interest. It's one of the reasons why in the USA out and out capitalist sports "franchise" owners employ "socialist" policies on signing players using the draft. They know that it is in their own interests and their longer term financial health to have a competitive league.

Maybe not the draft but certainly the revenue sharing aspect of the NFL is one I particularly think is one that RL should adopt. Do other North American sports have similar "socialist" philosophies as the NFL?

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