Jump to content


Rugby League World Issue 400 - Out Now!

RUGBY LEAGUE WORLD MAGAZINE - ISSUE 400 - OUT NOW!
84 pages, 38 years of history from Open Rugby to the present day.
Click here for the digital edition to read online via smartphone, tablet and desktop devices including iPhone, iPad, Android & Kindle HD.
Click here to order a copy for delivery by post. Annual subscriptions also available worldwide.
Find out what's inside Issue 400
/ View a Gallery of all 400 covers / WH Smith Branches stocking Issue 400
Read Jamie Jones-Buchanan's Top 5 RLW Interviews including Marwan Koukash, Lee Briers, Gareth Thomas, Steve Ganson & Matt King OBE


League Express

Podcast

Photo
- - - - -

Dr Koukash on FiveLive


  • Please log in to reply
411 replies to this topic

#141 deluded pom?

deluded pom?
  • Coach
  • 8,549 posts

Posted 22 March 2013 - 01:42 PM

That sounds like SL1 & SL2...


And if that does eventuate with an open spend, then how many SL1 clubs will throw money they can't afford at their team in the hope it keeps them up?

rldfsignature.jpg


#142 Dave T

Dave T
  • Coach
  • 14,167 posts

Posted 22 March 2013 - 01:57 PM

That sounds like SL1 & SL2...

No it doesn't.

#143 sweaty craiq

sweaty craiq
  • Coach
  • 1,477 posts

Posted 22 March 2013 - 03:02 PM

Here's a scenario:

Salford get their exemption, they sign several players on A LOT of money on 5 year contracts. The first 2 years, Koukash covers the wages, then he gets bored and leaves. Those player salaries still need to be paid for 3 years


Then they go t**s like they just have done but the fans have had some fun along the way and the success has interested a new wave of investor

#144 sweaty craiq

sweaty craiq
  • Coach
  • 1,477 posts

Posted 22 March 2013 - 03:02 PM

So we are all happy to move forward, with no real hope of raising the standard?

That's fine, but then we shouldn't all be bitching when we don't get the kind of coverage we "deserve".

If we are going to act like a tin-pot sport, which is happy to "level" a competition "up" to the level of the weakest participants, then we should not be surprised when we are treated like one.

Unambitious, flat-capism of the highest order. it's no wonder RU is cleaning our clock at every level.


Excellently put.

#145 Derwent

Derwent
  • Coach
  • 7,810 posts

Posted 22 March 2013 - 03:18 PM

So we are all happy to move forward, with no real hope of raising the standard?

That's fine, but then we shouldn't all be bitching when we don't get the kind of coverage we "deserve".

If we are going to act like a tin-pot sport, which is happy to "level" a competition "up" to the level of the weakest participants, then we should not be surprised when we are treated like one.

Unambitious, flat-capism of the highest order. it's no wonder RU is cleaning our clock at every level.


Could you explain how raising the salary cap will improve standards ? Seems to me the league would still contain the same players only they'd be better paid. Does paying them more suddenly make them better players ?

How will standards rise when you have a league of 5 or 6 strong squads and the rest miles behind ? There'll be blowout scores galore. Then the lower clubs will get even weaker as support drops due to them getting thrashed every other week and so their income falls. Standards will actually fall across the league as a whole.

If you want a genuinely competitive league with a raised cap then you'd need to spread the central funding differently, eg Cas might get £2m per year and Leeds only £250k, in order to even the odds. But turkeys don't vote for Christmas so it's never going to happen.

Workington Town. Then. Now. Always.


#146 Southstander13

Southstander13
  • Coach
  • 1,252 posts

Posted 22 March 2013 - 03:26 PM

Could you explain how raising the salary cap will improve standards ? Seems to me the league would still contain the same players only they'd be better paid. Does paying them more suddenly make them better players ?

How will standards rise when you have a league of 5 or 6 strong squads and the rest miles behind ? There'll be blowout scores galore. Then the lower clubs will get even weaker as support drops due to them getting thrashed every other week and so their income falls. Standards will actually fall across the league as a whole.


That pretty much sums up my thoughts.

#147 gingerjon

gingerjon
  • Coach
  • 28,879 posts

Posted 22 March 2013 - 03:34 PM

Seems to me the league would still contain the same players only they'd be better paid.


Same players plus one or two Aussies on blowout salaries.
Cheer up, RL is actually rather good
- Severus, July 2012

#148 Northern Sol

Northern Sol
  • Moderator
  • 16,949 posts

Posted 22 March 2013 - 04:52 PM

Then they go t**s like they just have done but the fans have had some fun along the way and the success has interested a new wave of investor


By that logic Gateshead Thunder would be a huge side by now.

#149 Derwent

Derwent
  • Coach
  • 7,810 posts

Posted 22 March 2013 - 07:22 PM

Can you explain to me how implementing the salary cap has raised standards?

Can you also explain to me how it has stopped clubs going bust?


It hasn't done either of those things, but that's not a reason to scrap it. In fact, you could argue that without a cap in place the clubs who have gone bust would have done so quicker and with higher debts. Additionally, if you want to raise standards then throwing money at first teamers isn't the answer. If clubs have spare money then the way to raise standards is to invest it into youth programmes and facilities. That's how you raise standards, not by giving existing players a pay rise.

Now, are you going to answer my questions or just keep on deflecting ?

Edited by Derwent, 22 March 2013 - 07:28 PM.

Workington Town. Then. Now. Always.


#150 l'angelo mysterioso

l'angelo mysterioso
  • Coach
  • 40,268 posts

Posted 22 March 2013 - 08:09 PM

It hasn't done either of those things, but that's not a reason to scrap it. In fact, you could argue that without a cap in place the clubs who have gone bust would have done so quicker and with higher debts. Additionally, if you want to raise standards then throwing money at first teamers isn't the answer. If clubs have spare money then the way to raise standards is to invest it into youth programmes and facilities. That's how you raise standards, not by giving existing players a pay rise.


















dead right
WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015
Keeping it local

#151 The Future is League

The Future is League
  • Coach
  • 5,940 posts

Posted 22 March 2013 - 11:59 PM

Youth development is the future for Rugby League. Kick out the imports over a 5 year period and spend that money on youth development. Ex NRL players are a huge drain on clubs resources with their wages and living accomodation costs.

#152 getdownmonkeyman

getdownmonkeyman
  • Coach
  • 1,732 posts

Posted 23 March 2013 - 09:41 AM

So we are all happy to move forward, with no real hope of raising the standard?

That's fine, but then we shouldn't all be bitching when we don't get the kind of coverage we "deserve".

If we are going to act like a tin-pot sport, which is happy to "level" a competition "up" to the level of the weakest participants, then we should not be surprised when we are treated like one.

Unambitious, flat-capism of the highest order. it's no wonder RU is cleaning our clock at every level.


Spending more money equates to increased media coverage? What nonsense.

#153 deluded pom?

deluded pom?
  • Coach
  • 8,549 posts

Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:04 AM

So, you can't prove it either? I'm sick of people claiming that, if there was no salary cap, there would be greater incidence of clubs going into liquidation.

No-one can prove that, and in the meantime we have become a backwater sport, with no international game, way behind virtually all other sport in the country.


Surely by the same logic you can't prove the SC is preventing other clubs falling into disarray or that it slowed the meltdown of clubs who did get into financial trouble either.

rldfsignature.jpg


#154 deluded pom?

deluded pom?
  • Coach
  • 8,549 posts

Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:06 AM

You need to be able to attract the best young athletes to our game. You can't do that by offering them £50 a week, and a bag of chips after training on Thursday night.

Faced with the choice of a career in Football, Athletics, Rugby Union, etc or RL, which would you choose if you knew that your earning potential was forever going to be restricted.

We will NEVER attract the level of athlete required whilst we continue along the Northern Paupers Trail.

And if we have an open spend then there won't be as much need to attract as many top young athletes because there won't be many competitive clubs left.

rldfsignature.jpg


#155 deluded pom?

deluded pom?
  • Coach
  • 8,549 posts

Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:07 AM

It hasn't done either of those things, but that's not a reason to scrap it. In fact, you could argue that without a cap in place the clubs who have gone bust would have done so quicker and with higher debts. Additionally, if you want to raise standards then throwing money at first teamers isn't the answer. If clubs have spare money then the way to raise standards is to invest it into youth programmes and facilities. That's how you raise standards, not by giving existing players a pay rise.

Now, are you going to answer my questions or just keep on deflecting ?

An oasis of common sense in Franksy's delusional desert.

rldfsignature.jpg


#156 deluded pom?

deluded pom?
  • Coach
  • 8,549 posts

Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:33 AM

Like I have been saying. If you are happy to accept unmitigated mediocrity, then good luck to you.

If people are happy with the status quo, then great, just stop f***ing moaning about it.

You're the one moaning the most. Isn't cross league mediocrity better than a one horse race? Obviously we'd like to see standards lifted all round but until that happens we have to protect the clubs from themselves as much as we can.

rldfsignature.jpg


#157 deluded pom?

deluded pom?
  • Coach
  • 8,549 posts

Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:46 AM

Would it be an absolute disaster if the SC was scrapped, or increased, and SL naturally declined to say, 10 clubs, because of it? No, not really. There would be a lot of wringing of hands, and gnashing of teeth, but nothing of any consequence, except perhaps a higher standard on the pitch, and a better sport all round.

That may be true but I highly doubt there'd be ten teams capable of freely matching the rest of the league's big spenders. We then return to a league vary similar in structure to the EPL where only a handful of clubs will ever win the league barring a multi billionaire coming out of the wood. We saw it in the eighties when Wigan signed all and sundry to maintain there annual pilgrimage to Wembley. A pilgrimage they had to make or they would suffer the financial consequences. Lo and behold they failed to make it to the Holy land every season (although they had a good tilt at it) and ended up selling off the family silver to pay the bills. A scenario we could well see repeated by other clubs if an open cap returns.

rldfsignature.jpg


#158 Northern Sol

Northern Sol
  • Moderator
  • 16,949 posts

Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:49 AM

So, RL is now the Nanny State of sports in the UK?

Just how well do you appreciate the UK Governments attempts to protect you from yourself?

Sport was meant to be enjoyed, not regulated. It has highs, and lows, and ups and downs.

That is, of course, unless your chosen sport is RL, where the sport is less important than ensuring that clubs that are adding nothing continue ad infinitum.

Would it be an absolute disaster if the SC was scrapped, or increased, and SL naturally declined to say, 10 clubs, because of it? No, not really. There would be a lot of wringing of hands, and gnashing of teeth, but nothing of any consequence, except perhaps a higher standard on the pitch, and a better sport all round.

Whilst the RFL continues to put the survival of sub-standard clubs before the good of the sport overall, RL is going nowhere.


Winning only means something if there is an actual competition with other teams who could put up a challenge. Otherwise you end up like Celtic with no meaningful games in your domestic competition. The only way they can grow is to leave the SPL.

#159 deluded pom?

deluded pom?
  • Coach
  • 8,549 posts

Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:52 AM

I am sure there is a point in there that you think is pertinent to SL, however, it's way beyond me.

Well if you can't see Sol's point there's no point in trying to debate it with you any longer. Au revoir.

rldfsignature.jpg


#160 Northern Sol

Northern Sol
  • Moderator
  • 16,949 posts

Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:56 AM

I am sure there is a point in there that you think is pertinent to SL, however, it's way beyond me.


It should be obvious that RL is much like the SPL. There are a couple of "big sides" and a few sides that might challenge them on the day and the rest that are nowhere near. No salary cap means hyping up Wigan vs Leeds as per the Glasgow derby because that's the only game that will have much meaning.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users